The Gospels and Paul

[deut31:12]

I think that was a "no," nebula.

Well, maybe not today's religious definition of grace.

[exrockstar]

ErichH, I totally agree.

However I think it would be helpful if you would take a crack at explaining what Paul means here though...

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (italics added)

one day take time to google key words such as "inherit" and "enter."

you did know that just because you enter the kingdom does not mean that you will inherit the kingdom.

two different things. look it up.

Should we continue sinning? God forbid!

[deut31:12]

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

????How can anybody make a statement like this?!?!?!?!

Because salvation is not based on anything we do, but on what Christ did.

Your answer has nothing to do what what is being said. What Jesus did for us on the cross was give us a away to be reconciled back to God. He also gave us a way of life we are to live before him. To transgress this way of life is what is called sin.

Then logically God's very divine life is powerless against the believer's commission of sin, and therefore the shed blood of Christ is truly not able to wash away every sin. Even Jacob Arminius was not assured of this point.

The blood of Jesus has the power to wash away all sin, but it is up to the sinner to come to the blood of Christ to have that done, but your answer has nothing to do with this statement -

Sinning or not sinning has nothing to do with whether a person does or does not go to hell.

An unrepented life of sin earns the wages of sin which is death. What this statement is doing is taking away the power of God in his decision for what he has chosen to do with the wicked of this world.

When we look at what scripture has to say about this we find this -

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - Matthew 25:45-46

When you read the whole account these verses are referring to you will see that all of this is based upon what we chose to do and/or not to do. Those who chose not to do were sent away to everlasting punishment and those who chose to do received eternal life.

[deut31:12]

ErichH, I totally agree.

However I think it would be helpful if you would take a crack at explaining what Paul means here though...

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (italics added)

one day take time to google key words such as "inherit" and "enter."

you did know that just because you enter the kingdom does not mean that you will inherit the kingdom.

two different things. look it up.

Should we continue sinning? God forbid!

You're splitting hairs to take away the affect of this passage.

If you want the word "enter" then use this verse.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. - Revelation 22:14-15

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. - Revelation 21:27

Edited May 21, 2008 by deut31:12

[exrockstar]

You're splitting hairs to take away the affect of this passage.

uhm...i didn't choose those words.

scripture wasn't casually written. maybe i should pick up a revised version or Bible ver. 2.01?

dont be lazy and one day go to biblegateway.com and search "inherit the kingdom" and "enter the kingdom."

Print it out.

Confess your sins in prayer

then mediate on the passages.

good stuff and no contradictions.

[EricH]

When we look at what scripture has to say about this we find this -

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - Matthew 25:45-46

When you read the whole account these verses are referring to you will see that all of this is based upon what we chose to do and/or not to do. Those who chose not to do were sent away to everlasting punishment and those who chose to do received eternal life.

Your approach here is not the best, so your conclusions are jaded. In order to understand what Matthew believes about salvation, we would need to look at everything he said about it. Pauls statement in 2 Corinthians 5:10 is related to this parable, but it was not all Paul had to say about salvation either. The idea that this passage (Matthew 25:46-47) teaches that sin can interfere with the grace imparted to the believer, and that righteous deeds earn or maintain salvation is mitigated by the surprise of sheep in Matthew 25:37-39. The sheep are shocked, and did not do their works of righteousness to earn eschatological reqard. It is clear here that the way people treated Jesus brothers is evidential and not causitive. Jesus indicated in other passages that the mark of a true follower of his would be "love for the other brothers" (John 13:34-35). In no place does He teach that this causes or maintains salvation. It is simply an evidence of it. You have attirbuted a direct cause where none is implied. You have also singles out proof texts without taking the entirety of scripture into account.

[Smalcald]

So we have in the New Testament two things going on, entering and inheriting the Kingdom of heaven? I don't see that at all. I would have to agree with Det on that, it is splitting hairs; Paul was talking about salvation.

However I think what he was getting at was not that sin itself can separate us from Christ, but that if we live for our flesh, if our mind is carnal our life will veer towards those things he mentioned. We are slaves of who we obey. Those who live for the flesh as evidenced in those things Paul spoke of do not have faith, regardless of what they may think. It still comes down to faith and what Christ has already done for us, grace.

[Ovedya]

The blood of Jesus has the power to wash away all sin, but it is up to the sinner to come to the blood of Christ to have that done, but your answer has nothing to do with this statement -

Actually it has everything to do with it. The blood of Christ was shed once and for all. It is not shed again and again each time we repent from our sins, and therefore its effectiveness is not limited by our sin. If, in our repentance from sin we cause the blood of Christ to be shed again and again, we would be bringing Him to open shame again and again (Heb. 6:6)

[exrockstar]

So we have in the New Testament two things going on, entering and inheriting the Kingdom of heaven? I don't see that at all. I would have to agree with Det on that, it is splitting hairs; Paul was talking about salvation.

it's really not splitting hairs but hey....dismiss it if ya like.

point is that det originally had a disargeement about sinning sending a believer to hell.

all believers go to the bema seat but heaven or hell judgement is not what takes place there.

maybe some one hasnt told him (or her).

[Smalcald]

Yeah I agree that sinning cannot send us to hell, obviously; as that would mean everyone would be in hell, thus the need for Christ and His gift.

However in each one of these cases that people get confused about they are looking at the individual sin, instead of the individual heart, and that was my only point. If we have faith in Christ we are not going to lead life by worshipping the flesh, (fornication, adultery, murder, envy, selfish ambitions, drunkenness, revelries) etc. I think this was what Paul was saying and it is an important point, he was saying don't fool yourself, you can say that you have faith all you want, but look at yourself, who are you, what do you practice, what do you worship, this will tell you if you have faith or not, it will tell you have the Holy Spirit.