The Gospels and Paul

[exrockstar]

When you read and study books of the bible you will see that there is a lot more told to us to do than just Eph 2:8,9. Even the poster saw this and it is a great theme all over the New Testament that is coupled with faith. It is also a great misnomer to think that obeying the scriptures takes away from what Jesus did on the cross.

yeah it's called demonstration which is different than works.

[deut31:12]

When you read and study books of the bible you will see that there is a lot more told to us to do than just Eph 2:8,9. Even the poster saw this and it is a great theme all over the New Testament that is coupled with faith. It is also a great misnomer to think that obeying the scriptures takes away from what Jesus did on the cross.

yeah it's called demonstration which is different than works.

:emot-heartbeat: :24: :) :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:

[Ovedya]

Those verses, along with others like 2 Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5 confirm that our salvation was by grace - unmerited favor - through faith, not by any works of righteousness out of the law. Therefore, if the the working out of the law has not the capacity to bring regeneration (That is the initial receiving of salvation), than neither does it have the capacity to bring full salvation. Christ was not incarnated, live a complete perfect life, die an all-inclusive death, accomplish an all-victorious resurrection and ascension, just to bring us under the bondage of another impossible set of laws. If "grace by faith" has regenerated us unto a living hope, than "grace by faith" shall carry us through to the end of our salvation.

[Guest]

Those verses, along with others like 2 Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5 confirm that our salvation was by grace - unmerited favor - through faith, not by any works of righteousness out of the law.

Therefore, if the the working out of the law has not the capacity to bring regeneration (That is the initial receiving of salvation), than neither does it have the capacity to bring full salvation.

Christ was not incarnated, live a complete perfect life, die an all-inclusive death, accomplish an all-victorious resurrection and ascension, just to bring us under the bondage of another impossible set of laws.

If "grace by faith" has regenerated us unto a living hope, than "grace by faith" shall carry us through to the end of our salvation.

Amen!

Not According To Our Works

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Timothy 1:9

Nor By Works Of Righteousness

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

Jesus Started It

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

Jesus Finished It

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30

Jesus Assures It

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

Believe It

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Grace

Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 2:1

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips. Psalms 141:3

[deut31:12]

Those verses, along with others like 2 Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5 confirm that our salvation was by grace - unmerited favor - through faith, not by any works of righteousness out of the law. Therefore, if the the working out of the law has not the capacity to bring regeneration (That is the initial receiving of salvation), than neither does it have the capacity to bring full salvation. Christ was not incarnated, live a complete perfect life, die an all-inclusive death, accomplish an all-victorious resurrection and ascension, just to bring us under the bondage of another impossible set of laws. If "grace by faith" has regenerated us unto a living hope, than "grace by faith" shall carry us through to the end of our salvation.

You are correct that works do not save. That has been proven and agreed to on many occasions, but it seems people are stuck in the same mind set of the same understanding of works that proper understanding of how they all work together is totally missed.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; - Titus 3:4-5

When you leave these verses in their context you get a proper understanding.

When the time happens that we are reconciled back to God, all of our sins are forgiven, and we receive the Holy Spirit it is not by anything that we previously did or can do in the form of works of my own or works of the law. Where people are missing is that the OP was stressing that AFTER this has occurred that we are still commanded to continue in the faith unto good works. These works are not of our own volition, but our continuance in obeying the scriptures.

The same understanding applies with Eph 2:8,9, when you start from the beginning of the chapter, leaving it in its proper context, and even including the 10th verse:

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:10

You will see that we were created to do good works and it has been ordained that we SHOULD walk in them. This is NOT for the salvation of our souls, but that while we are Christians on this earth that we are required to follow the scriptures, which is the law of Jesus.

If all Christianity entailed was us believing and following just the scriptures that you have listed then Paul would have not written anything else. James would not have written, "Faith without works is dead". As we continue in our walk with Jesus we conduct our lives as is written in the scriptures of not stealing, killing, lying, fornicating, filthy speaking, drunkeness, covetousness, etc. The works of the law is abstaining from these sins.

A lot of what Paul wrote to us was to keep away from these sins, how that there is a battle within us to overcome them, and how that with the Holy Spirit we can overcome these lusts and sins.

We are told to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. If all of Christianity was based upon the scriptures that you have listed then Philippians 2:12 would be a lie and a contradiction. We are not working for our salvation, because we are already saved. The works that we do, according to the scriptures, is to make sure that we don't allow our old sins to pull us back into the world of sin away from God and they can. Demas forsook God for the love of the present world.

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, - 2 Timothy 1:9

Again, there was nothing that we did, or could do, to warrant the calling, the grace, or the forgiveness of our sins, but we are still commanded to obey the law of God. This comes after we have been saved.

[exrockstar]

Again, there was nothing that we did, or could do, to warrant the calling, the grace, or the forgiveness of our sins, but we are still commanded to obey the law of God. This comes after we have been saved.

which i said a few posts back......"demonstration."

[deut31:12]

Again, there was nothing that we did, or could do, to warrant the calling, the grace, or the forgiveness of our sins, but we are still commanded to obey the law of God. This comes after we have been saved.

which i said a few posts back......"demonstration."

What are you talking about????? The scriptures express to us that it is called "works", but you are saying different. Our works, which are not of our own, is a demonstration of our obedience to the scriptures and they can't be separated.

[exrockstar]

What are you talking about????? The scriptures express to us that it is called "works", but you are saying different. Our works, which are not of our own, is a demonstration of our obedience to the scriptures and they can't be separated.

so if a give a poor man a cup of soup you call that "work" a work of God?

youre confusing me.

[Guest man]

so if a give a poor man a cup of soup you call that "work" a work of God?

What would you call it?

[exrockstar]

so if a give a poor man a cup of soup you call that "work" a work of God?

What would you call it?

this is an A and B conversation. C your way out.

thanks in advance