BlindSeeker Posted June 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 I think that like other things Jesus told the deciples, they did not fully understand, untill after the reserection of Christ. I believe alot of what he told them are for us today. Matt. 24:29-30 for example, Jesus has not call us into the air. We have not heard the trumpet yet. I must admite I tried to read the whole thing, but about half-way I started skimmy the article, however I did read all of your thoughts. So I'm not sure how to post, or even fully understand your postion, Sorry. That's ok. But without questions there can be no answers offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted June 25, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I think that like other things Jesus told the deciples, they did not fully understand, untill after the reserection of Christ. I believe alot of what he told them are for us today. Matt. 24:29-30 for example, Jesus has not call us into the air. We have not heard the trumpet yet. I must admite I tried to read the whole thing, but about half-way I started skimmy the article, however I did read all of your thoughts. So I'm not sure how to post, or even fully understand your postion, Sorry. I started to break down Blindseeker's OP into smaller bites because of all the complaints about the length; unfortunately, the ones complaining did not actually want to learn this perspective. They just wanted to sow discord. As a result, I became discouraged and did not continue with the study. However, if you are interested, the first two parts are paraphrased in posts 64 and 89. Please feel free to read them so the three of us can go through the chapter a few verses at a time and have a good Biblical discussion. I can easily be motivated to continue posting in this manner if other members are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted June 25, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 I think that like other things Jesus told the disciples, they did not fully understand, until after the resurrection of Christ. Even after the resurrection they did not fully understand as indicated below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialSaint Posted July 3, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 3, 2008 Great commentary! I guess we have to watch out for false views which claim that most of the chapter was fulfilled in A.D. 70. I believe all of it is future. Go back to Zechariah 14. The prophet says that during the siege of Jerusalem, Christ will come and all the wicked will be destroyed. Then the Millennium will commence. I've had a lot of trouble from the "preterists" who believe the chapter has been fulfilled already. I even challenged Dee Dee Warren to a debate, and she refused. Peace & Health, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted July 3, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Great commentary! I guess we have to watch out for false views which claim that most of the chapter was fulfilled in A.D. 70. I believe all of it is future. Go back to Zechariah 14. The prophet says that during the siege of Jerusalem, Christ will come and all the wicked will be destroyed. Then the Millennium will commence. I've had a lot of trouble from the "preterists" who believe the chapter has been fulfilled already. I even challenged Dee Dee Warren to a debate, and she refused. Peace & Health, Brian I'm curious. Did you read the commentary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted July 3, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Great commentary! I guess we have to watch out for false views which claim that most of the chapter was fulfilled in A.D. 70. I believe all of it is future. Go back to Zechariah 14. The prophet says that during the siege of Jerusalem, Christ will come and all the wicked will be destroyed. Then the Millennium will commence. I've had a lot of trouble from the "preterists" who believe the chapter has been fulfilled already. I even challenged Dee Dee Warren to a debate, and she refused. Peace & Health, Brian I'm curious. Did you read the commentary? Confused me too Xan . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialSaint Posted July 4, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2008 Great commentary! I guess we have to watch out for false views which claim that most of the chapter was fulfilled in A.D. 70. I believe all of it is future. Go back to Zechariah 14. The prophet says that during the siege of Jerusalem, Christ will come and all the wicked will be destroyed. Then the Millennium will commence. I've had a lot of trouble from the "preterists" who believe the chapter has been fulfilled already. I even challenged Dee Dee Warren to a debate, and she refused. Peace & Health, Brian I'm curious. Did you read the commentary? Hey Xan, Yes, I read through it, but when I read I skim. Did I miss something important? What caught my eye was the following statement by Adam Clarke: But there are some who maintain that these are but three parts of the same question, and that our Lord's answers only refer to the destruction of the Jewish state, and that nothing is spoken here concerning the LAST or judgment day. That view is preposterous, to say the least. The disciples ask the question when will be the end of the world "aion." The preterists translate that "age," but then they make "the age" end in A.D. 70. But Christ already defined age as "this life"--the present natural order of things which will end when He returns. I've offered to publicly debate these people time and again, and they all run into hiding. I don't even think Matt. 24 is talking about the "Jewish War." It's talking about the end-time siege of Jerusalem, when Anti-Christ takes over. See Zech. 14. When Christ returns to the Mt. of Olives, all the enemies will be destroyed. Peace & Health, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted July 4, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 I don't even think Matt. 24 is talking about the "Jewish War." It's talking about the end-time siege of Jerusalem, when Anti-Christ takes over. See Zech. 14. When Christ returns to the Mt. of Olives, all the enemies will be destroyed. So . . . Jesus was only repeating what Zechariah was talking about . . . nothing said about the things which must shortly come to past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 7, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wow to the original poster for compiling all that for us. It's late here and I haven't read them all (or even most of them). But I thought I'd just share the thoughts of an old Australian Theologian named D.B. Knox, who once gave a lecture titled "The Five Comings of Christ". He cleverly and biblically advocated that there clearly five distinct comings of Jesus distinct in the Bible. The "coming in the Clouds" which was expected during the lifetime of Jesus' hearers in Matthew 24 is the Third of these. I'll quote that section (it's abridged for easier reading, though PM me if you want the full section, or indeed the entire article of all Five comings (it's not available online, it's in a book of mine, which I took the time to type out for situations such as this: The third coming of the Son of Man distinguished in the New Testament is his coming on the clouds of heaven. It is a coming which takes place within the lifetime of Jesus’ hearers and will be recognized by them as having taken palce. Jesus predicted “They shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory…. Verily I say unto you this generation shall not pass away until all these things are accomplished”. (Matt 24:30, 34). It is plain from these passages that Jesus expected with absolute certainty that the Son of Man would come on the clouds during the lifetime of his hearers. The imagery of the Son of Man coming on the clouds is drawn directly from Daneil 7:13, where the son of man comes with the clouds into the presence of the Ancient of Days and receives the Kingdom. This coming of the Son of Man is neither a coming into the world at Bethlehem nor the coming or parousia in judgement at Jerusalem but is a coming to the Father. As Jesus said inhis prayer before his death “I come to thee” (John 17:11). He comes to the Father to receive the everlasting kingdom, to be crowned with glory and honour through his death, to sit on God’s right hand, asking reigning and waiting for every enemy to be subject to him. The “coming on the clouds” is a synonym for “sitting at the right hand of God”, and both stand for receiving and the exercising of dominion and sovereignty. In recording the words of the Saviour, Matthew uses both images: “henceforth you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven” (Matt 26:64). Strictly speaking the images are incompatible, but they both stand for the same truth, that through his death Christ has been raised to the Father’s right hand where he now reigns. "The Doctrine of God, Volume 1 - Matthias Media, 2000" Just something I thought I would share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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