Universe: Fractal or homogenous?

[nebula]

OK, I'm sure there's only a few of us here geeky enough to appreciate this for what it is.

But a recent study leans towards the theory that the universe is arranged more like a fractal than being homogenous - although the debate continues.

the matter distribution has become a source of impassioned debate between those who say the distribution is smooth and homogeneous and those who say it is hierarchically structured and clumpy, like a fractal.

Nearly all physicists agree that on relatively small scales the distribution is fractal-like: hundreds of billions of stars group together to form galaxies, galaxies clump together to form clusters, and clusters amass into superclusters.

The point of contention, however, is what happens at even larger scales. According to most physicists, this Russian doll-style clustering comes to an end and the universe, on large scales, becomes homogeneous.

But a small team of physicists, including Francesco Sylos Labini of the Enrico Fermi Centre in Rome and Luciano Pietronero of the University of Rome argue that the data shows the opposite: the universe continues to look fractal as far out as our telescopes can see.

There are some interesting points worth watching with this debate:

If there is a pattern in the sky, it encodes the secrets of the universe.

What's at stake if the universe is indeed a fractal on the largest scales? ... [A] radical rethink of the laws and history of the cosmos,....

Why?

Many cosmologists find fault with their analysis, largely because a fractal matter distribution out to such huge scales undermines the standard model of cosmology. According to the accepted story of cosmic evolution, there simply hasn't been enough time since the big bang nearly 14 billion years ago for gravity to build up such large structures.

What's more, the assumption that the distribution is homogeneous has allowed cosmologists to model the universe fairly simply using Einstein's theory of general relativity

[Guest]

What Fun!

And Real Math Too!

The Cosmos Is Fractal To Our Preceptions

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hebrews 11:3

The Cosmos Is Homogeneous To God's Perception

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

2 Corinthians 4:18

Sin Killed - God Birthed

Because Sin Killed Our Spirit And Poisoned Our Hearts We Can't Lean On Our Own Perceptions And Understandings

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

Only The Word Of God And The Holy Spirit Can Show Us Our True Wicked Sin Fractured Stony Hearts

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 4:12

And By Faith In Jesus We Receive God's Homogeneous Healing, A Born Again Spiritually Natured Baby

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:15

The Astonishing Wonder Of God's Amazing Grace

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

The Pride Breaking Sight Of Calvary

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

The Joy Of Jesus

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:2

The Hunger For His Word

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

The Joyful Assurance Of His Salvation

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25

Forever And Ever Amen!

[The Lorax]

Interesting stuff. I'm surprised they don't bring up how the universe is expanding exponentially. I mean, fractals don't move, do they?

[nebula]

Sorry about that!

Source: New Scientist

(iGoogle gadget: New Scientist - latest headlines . . . it's a great way to see the headlines on my homepage.)

[Resting in Christ]

Hi Nebula,

Discover magazine, August 2008, has an article on this issue. Its byline reads: "The fate of the universe rests in the endless expanse of nothing called the vacuum." Interesting stuff. The article contends that if the new data is accurate then the whole notion of a Big Bang gets blown apart. There is talk of matter coming into existence in the void of space. This is reminiscent of Hubble's Steady State theory. Apparently there is hard evidence that matter pops into and out of existence all the time. This has to do with quantum physics and I don't pretend to understand any of it.

I have also read in Scientific American about the fractal nature of the universe. The truth is I never found the Big Bang intellectually satisfying. I rather like Hubble's theory. Maybe it is making a comeback.

there is hard evidence that matter pops into and out of existence all the time

Interesting, I'll take the bag full of 100's...

[mathqueen]

woohooooooo fractals!!!

[LadyRaven]

woohooooooo fractals!!!

this hurts my head, though I find it fascinating at the same time.

I remember a few yrs ago I was watching something on string theory and quatum physics that indicated a bumpy small universe but a fairly smooth macro universe, sorta like when you layer things eventually it smooths over because there's no holes for the stuff to sink into eventually.

Then I read recently they dont like string theory anymore

And I got lost. I'll go read this, maybe i will understand it.

[LadyRaven]

Hi Nebula,

Discover magazine, August 2008, has an article on this issue. Its byline reads: "The fate of the universe rests in the endless expanse of nothing called the vacuum." Interesting stuff. The article contends that if the new data is accurate then the whole notion of a Big Bang gets blown apart. There is talk of matter coming into existence in the void of space. This is reminiscent of Hubble's Steady State theory. Apparently there is hard evidence that matter pops into and out of existence all the time. This has to do with quantum physics and I don't pretend to understand any of it.

I have also read in Scientific American about the fractal nature of the universe. The truth is I never found the Big Bang intellectually satisfying. I rather like Hubble's theory. Maybe it is making a comeback.

there is hard evidence that matter pops into and out of existence all the time

Interesting, I'll take the bag full of 100's...

Where would it go? On vacation?

[nebula]

Then I read recently they dont like string theory anymore

String theory has been significantly challenged???/

[LadyRaven]

Then I read recently they dont like string theory anymore

String theory has been significantly challenged???/

Er, according one of those mags (like discover or national geo, can't remember) and ETV a few yrs ago. Something about they found another dimension and the numbers didn't work...

Sorry, I can't remember the name of the program on etv, or the mag, just know I saw them and I was upset. I just had really liked what I understood about string theory and was very disappointed because it seemed to make a good deal of sense biblically... er, at least what I got did.