RebekahDavid Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 Well ... well ... well ... quick tempers on a hot subject (pun intended). No matter what you want to call it or not, it will be eternal separation from God. Use your favorite description, but I'll stick to what God uses, thankyou. OneLight "quick tempers on a hot subject (pun intended). " very punny lol no temper over this here just rejoicing in the joy of the Lord's saving grace "but I'll stick to what God uses, thankyou." agrees with your statment here bro! love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 It's my opinion that those who don't believe in hell will change their minds when they get there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 9, 2008 There is a hell, and the darkness and despair which exists there will make people wish for fire and brimstone. "The blackness of darkness forever". Physical pain will not be the main ingredient, but the deep despair and depression of having no hope forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 . . . yet my beliefs on hell make me feel very uncomfortable because it is not the popular notion amongst Christians. Would you like to expound on that? Seems like the proper thread for such . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2008 I always thought there should be a bumper sticker which read - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 9, 2008 rest well PA. i do not agree with this statement you made "I'm sure you are aware of the purpose of parables, and that is to pass on one single theological concept." even a quick reading of the parables in the Bible show more than one lesson to be learned from them. and many in fact have several. love your sister in Christ, Rebekah DavidHi RebekahDavid, I must respectfully disagree. Parables are stories told to convey only one theological concept (or to give the Sunday School answer - an Earthly story with a Heavenly meaning). Though we may gain many things from the parables (the parable of the sower, for example, may give us many insights, but ultimately it theologically discusses how the word of God is heard and received), they are there to show one theological concept, and in the case of the verse/s you provided it is found in the final verses, after the rich man pleads for his life, he states: "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' ~ Luke 16:27-31 Jesus was clearly making the distinction of his own resurrection, which as we have all seen, few beleive, even though he did rise from the dead. There is not a single parable I am aware of that deals with multiple theological concepts. If this parable were to show two theological concepts (the nature of hell, and that no one would believe a person even if they rise from the dead), it would be, to my knowledge, the only parable in the entire Bible that does so - feel free to disagree and point out some other parables that show two theological concepts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think those people are in denial and whoever is teaching them this stuff is going to end up in that place he/she doesn't believe in. Here's what the Lord has to say about hell. Mark 9 43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. "The fire is not quenched". That sounds like forever to me. I don't understand how people can just brush past verses like these as if they didn't exist.Hi man. Each word translated here as "hell" is gehenna and it refers to a very real place, not a spiritual place. This very real place was a garbage dump, a place where people burned their garbage, and if they couldn't afford a funeral, they would burn their dead. Thinking of this then, why is it that in Mark 9:49, which is the verse straight after the one you posted, does it read: Everyone will be salted with fire. There is no distinction here between Christian and non-Christian. It is something that will happen to everyone. So, if you don't mind, since verse 49 is virtually ignored when looking at these verses, I feel it is the most important verse in this whole section, I'll quote a short section of the article I posted in the other thread in this section: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The first point I would like to address is the metaphorical use of both Salt and Fire in the Bible. Though salt has been used in other contexts to refer to being Holy and set apart for God, this is not the meaning implied in this passage. In Matthew 5, for example, where Jesus uses salt in the context of being Holy, he specifically states “YOU ARE the salt of the Earth” (Matthew 5:13). In Mark 9, he does not say this. What he says is, “have salt in yourselves” (v50). This is something we must contain within ourselves, not something that we as Christians intrinsically should be. What is salt used for then? It must be contextually accurate with the use of fire. So what is the purpose of fire? While there are many uses of “fire” in the Bible, an interesting parallel can be seen here in Mark 9 and John the Baptist’s remarks to his followers: "I baptise you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (Matthew 3:11, see also Luke 3:16) *emphasis added* John was baptising with water, but the one who would come, whom John identified as Jesus, would baptise with fire. Now in Mark 9, Jesus continues this metaphor, and says that everyone will be “salted with fire”. Salt is not directly related to the process of baptism. 4th Century AD traditions included salt with some baptism ceremonies, and while that doesn’t necessarily equate to biblical baptism, it shows the early Christian understanding of the commonalities between the purification qualities of salt, and the rebirth of the spirit at baptism. Fire and salt are therefore both metaphors for purification. As newborn Christians, we have become new creations, no longer tied to our lives as slaves to sin, but slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:16). And thus salt and fire are both clear symbols for our new lives as Christians, as evidenced throughout the Bible, but hinted at in Malachi 3, when prophesying the day of the Lord’s Return will be “like a refiner's fire” (3:2), and made clear in James’ letter where he states, “wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double minded… Humble yourself before the Lord, and he will lift you up” (4:8,10) Therefore, the clearest interpretation of Mark 9:49 is that it is yet another command for Christians to be baptised not only with water, but also with the spirit of truth, such as Jesus commanded in what has become known as the “great commission” (Matthew 28:18-20). Jesus cleverly contrasts the purification qualities of God’s fire in verse 49 with the condemnatory fires of the earthly fires of Gehenna (translated as Hell in verses 42-48), where “their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48 – a quote from Isaiah 66:24, I might add, which also addresses the same concept of purity and rebirth against the judgements of sin). Sin leads to the fires of judgement and death, but following Jesus’ example, living our lives metaphorically salted with fire leads to life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Verse 49 is integral to understanding this, because it clearly shows Jesus contrasting the purificational qualities of God's fire with the condemnatory and very earthly fires of gehenna, where many of those who were listening would likely end up going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted July 9, 2008 . . . yet my beliefs on hell make me feel very uncomfortable because it is not the popular notion amongst Christians. Would you like to expound on that? Seems like the proper thread for such . . . I will elucidate more on this further when I'm home this evening, and I have my Bible. I will go ahead and give my beliefs now, then back it up with scripture later. We are told the very definition of eternal life is eternity with our Lord Jesus Christ. We are also told death and hell will be burned up in the lake of fire. Because of this, I do believe there is a hell, and it is an unfathomable place of torment, but I do not believe it will last forever, nor do I believe it is the same thing as the lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I will elucidate more on this further when I'm home this evening, and I have my Bible. I will go ahead and give my beliefs now, then back it up with scripture later. We are told the very definition of eternal life is eternity with our Lord Jesus Christ. We are also told death and hell will be burned up in the lake of fire. Because of this, I do believe there is a hell, and it is an unfathomable place of torment, but I do not believe it will last forever, nor do I believe it is the same thing as the lake of fire.No worries. Share your thoughts when you get home. In the meantime, if you don't mind, I'd like to point out that you are quite right that death and hades (the grave) will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, but could I possibly quote the whole verse here: Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:14-15 It is my opinion here that the "lake of fire" is the second death. A literal and complete second death. There no hint of torture or punishment, indeed the opposite. It states - "The lake of fire is the second death". I see no references to places of punishment or torture. Just my observation on this passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadyjital Posted July 9, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Interesting thought! Good observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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