3 Plain Statements About The Rapture

[Guest]

Does it really matter when?

In Matthew 25, we are warned to be ready, invest what He has given us and do His will always, for He comes as a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3), a time which we think not.

Be ready, always!

Be Blessed,

OneLight

Amen Dear Brother, Amen!

He Returns

And The Whole Of Eternity Pivots On The Work Of One Man Come Down From His Father In Heaven Above

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

Jesus The Christ The Son Of God Who Was Born To Be Our Kinsmen And Our Redeemer

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;

and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:27:30

And The Choice All Mankind Must Make

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood,

or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:

but as for me and my house,

we will serve the LORD Joshua 24:15

To Trust God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,

but have everlasting life John 3:16

Or Not

He that believeth on him is not condemned:

but he that believeth not is condemned already,

because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

He Returns!

[OneLight]

Does it really matter when?

I think it does ... snip

Does it really matter when??? No. Christians should be ready for whenever the time comes. We should be working to bring in the unsaved, salvation for the lost. No matter the theology of this matter, bringing Christ to the lost that really matters.

OneLight

[kat8585]

I think it matters a great deal. It's dangerous to think we won't have to go thru the tribulation, because when it comes to light that we do, many will be unprepared. It could cause some to get "lazy".

[truthbringer]

The bible contains plain statements that plainly mean what they say, and no interpretation is necessary. The bible also contains some statements that are not plain, and you need to interpret the meaning to understand what is said.

The bible does not contradict itself, when properly understood.

Whenever an interpretation contradicts a plain statement, then that interpretation is false, and another interpretation must be found.

There are 3 plain statements that say plainly that the rapture is after the tribulation period and at the end of the age.

There are no plain statements that say that the rapture is before the tribulation period.

A plain statement showing that the rapture happens at the resurection of the righteous dead;

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

A plain statement that the resurection is at the last day, so the rapture must be at the last day of the age: (The person saying that didn't know anything about the 1000 year reign and meant the end of the present age.)

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Plain statement showing the resurection at the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is no last trumpet before the tribulation period. The last trumpet is the 7th trumpet in revelation which happens after the 6th at the end of the tribulation period. (seals, vials, and trumpets go all the way to the end of the tribulation period from the context of what is said.)

Plain statement showing the rapture is after the tribulation period:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are NO plain statements saying that the rapture is before the tribulation period. There are only misinterpretations of some scriptures used to support that view.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The one in 2 Thessalonians is not referring to the rapture at all. It is referring to the falling away from the faith (apostacy) that is supposed to happen before antichrist is revealed.--Taken out of the way, in the apostacy. [That apostacy has already happened with the ecumenical movement pulling church leaderships under the control of the vatican, and the true gospel not being preached and fake bibles that have the words changed being widely accepted.]

They try to force an interpretation saying it refers to the rapture based on some vague idea that the church is a restraining force and must be raptured out; but it is not a plain statement. It must be a false interpretation because it contradicts the 3 plain statements that the rapture is post tribulation and at the resurection which is also post tribulation.

Show me a plain statement saying the rapture is pre tribulation. You cannot because there isn't any. The pre trib rapture is based only on bad interpretations of harder to understand scriptures and someone's ideas about this or that. There are no plain statements saying it.

The idea that the church is a restraining force against the antichrist also contradicts a plain statement that the antichrist will scatter the power of the church before Jesus comes back. So, that is a false idea.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The only people that will be holy at the time of the end are the real Christians.

Some people believe in the Pre-Tribulation rapture, And some people believe in the Mid -Tribulation rapture.

WHO'S RIGHT??.

THEY BOTH ARE, I'm going up in the first Rapture, you can stay if you want.

There are too many scripture that prove the Pre-trib Rapture for it not to be true.

[Guest man]

There are too many scripture that prove the Pre-trib Rapture for it not to be true.

Please post them.

[Guest man]

Does it really matter when?

I think it does ... snip

Does it really matter when??? No.

Of course it does. If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be a part of the Word.

If it didn't matter, what are we supposed to be watching for?

What is the purpose of all the warnings if it doesn't matter?

Christians should be ready for whenever the time comes.

That's just it, they won't be.

People are being taught that they don't have to worry about the end times because they won't be here to experience it.

That teaching is false. It's a lie.

When the time comes, how are people going to ready if they're not expecting it?

We should be working to bring in the unsaved, salvation for the lost.

What good would it do if we're not going to prepare them for the end?

No matter the theology of this matter, bringing Christ to the lost that really matters.

The theology does make a difference.

Pre-trib rapture theory is a lie.

[truthbringer]

The bible contains plain statements that plainly mean what they say, and no interpretation is necessary. The bible also contains some statements that are not plain, and you need to interpret the meaning to understand what is said.

The bible does not contradict itself, when properly understood.

Whenever an interpretation contradicts a plain statement, then that interpretation is false, and another interpretation must be found.

There are 3 plain statements that say plainly that the rapture is after the tribulation period and at the end of the age.

There are no plain statements that say that the rapture is before the tribulation period.

A plain statement showing that the rapture happens at the resurection of the righteous dead;

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

A plain statement that the resurection is at the last day, so the rapture must be at the last day of the age: (The person saying that didn't know anything about the 1000 year reign and meant the end of the present age.)

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Plain statement showing the resurection at the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is no last trumpet before the tribulation period. The last trumpet is the 7th trumpet in revelation which happens after the 6th at the end of the tribulation period. (seals, vials, and trumpets go all the way to the end of the tribulation period from the context of what is said.)

Plain statement showing the rapture is after the tribulation period:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There are NO plain statements saying that the rapture is before the tribulation period. There are only misinterpretations of some scriptures used to support that view.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The one in 2 Thessalonians is not referring to the rapture at all. It is referring to the falling away from the faith (apostacy) that is supposed to happen before antichrist is revealed.--Taken out of the way, in the apostacy. [That apostacy has already happened with the ecumenical movement pulling church leaderships under the control of the vatican, and the true gospel not being preached and fake bibles that have the words changed being widely accepted.]

They try to force an interpretation saying it refers to the rapture based on some vague idea that the church is a restraining force and must be raptured out; but it is not a plain statement. It must be a false interpretation because it contradicts the 3 plain statements that the rapture is post tribulation and at the resurection which is also post tribulation.

Show me a plain statement saying the rapture is pre tribulation. You cannot because there isn't any. The pre trib rapture is based only on bad interpretations of harder to understand scriptures and someone's ideas about this or that. There are no plain statements saying it.

The idea that the church is a restraining force against the antichrist also contradicts a plain statement that the antichrist will scatter the power of the church before Jesus comes back. So, that is a false idea.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The only people that will be holy at the time of the end are the real Christians.

Some people belive in the pre-tribulation rapture, and some people believe in the mid tribulation rapture.

WHICH ONE IS RIGHT??.

They both are.

You can stay if you want, I know that I am going in the First rapture.

There are to many scriptures that prove the Pre- trib rapture for it not to be true.

[OneLight]

Man ... you are viewing my words wrongly. When I ask if it really matters when, I mean the debate of when it will happen, not if. When I say that we are to be ready always, I mean just that ... be wise as the wise 5 Virgins, having your lamps full. His time will come and we are to always be ready. Doing so, we are ready to be with Him every single moment on our lives.

[sheya joie]

I ran across this today, and thought it would fit this topic. (It's a bit long, but well worth reading.)

Prepared for the Coming Tribulation

Written By Corrie Ten Boom in 1974

The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible to be overcomers.

Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lords only representatives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. We too, are to be overcomers - bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting Hallelujah! Hallelujah! for I have found where it is written that Jesus said, He that overcometh shall inherit all things: and I will be His God, and he shall be My son. This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive - but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.

Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick. Yes, the Lord will heal me,, Betsy said with confidence. She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.

It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China, the Christians were told, " Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated - raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly, We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when the tribulation comes - to stand and not faint.

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it. We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation. Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you; on their part evil is spoken of, but on your part He is glorified. (I Peter 3:14) I found myself saying, Hallelujah! Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!

In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?

The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.

When I was a little girl, I said, I went to my father and said, Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. Tell me, said Father, When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before? No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train. That is right, my father said, and so it is with Gods strength. Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. He will supply all you need - just in time.

My African friends were nodding and smiling. Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing, In the sweet, by and by, we shall meet on that beautiful shore. Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed. I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.

But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution? First we need to feed on the word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.

Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History, but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive and sitting at the right hand of God.

We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.

In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other. But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting. The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christians life.

Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible Nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also. But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down. Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him, for I know that to all who overcome, He shall give the crown of life. Hallelujah!

[truthbringer]

There are too many scripture that prove the Pre-trib Rapture for it not to be true.

Please post them.

I will if I get the time, In the mean time you have to know who Jesus is talking about.

[A] The Church. The Jew [The elect] [C] The Gentile.

You also have to know that some Christians will fet left behind.

You also have to have to re-read the subject with an open mind and a teachable spirit.

For instance, The "Last Trump" Isn't the seventh trumpet in Revelations, Even the Mid-Tribers have gone before the first trupet has sounded in the Book of Revelation.

The Last Trump and the last day, Is the last day of this dispensation, The Old Testament was the dispensation of Law, The New Testament is the dispensation of Grace, The tribulation is the Dispensation of Wrath. Once the final Trumpet of this dispensation has sounded the day of grace is over, The Church has been Raptured, and the anti-christ can come.

Jesus is coming back for a Glorious Church, one doing outstanding miracles and great works of power, When He comes we will be just like Him.

The devil couldn't handle one Jesus, how can he deal with Thousands or millions just like Jesus. So the anti-christ cannot come until the Church, [Those who are ready and waiting] have been taken out of the way, [The Pre-Trib rapture]. But the backsliders will be left behind and have to go through the tribulation.

Edited August 25, 2008 by truthbringer