carlos123 Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2008 I was wondering if anyone would care to discuss 1 Corinthians chapter 14? Verse by verse. I looked around at the various forums available at Worthy Forums and General Discussion seemed like the best one for this. But if that is not correct please let me know. Now before saying yes to such a discussion I would like to say a couple of things. I DON'T, DON'T...let me say that again...DON'T want to get into the usual Christian arguments about what is written and whether or not we should apply what is said today and how. I DON'T want to argue. Discuss...yes. Argue...NO!!! If anyone cares to argue about what is written I will leave the thread to whoever wants to argue...and let them argue by themselves. Quite frankly there is altogether too much flesh in most such discussions on Christian forums with respect to how Christians get into arguments. It's downright ridiculous. Perhaps it's foolish of me to think we might be able to do better on this forum but I would like to try and see if we can. What I would like to do is discuss what is WRITTEN. And ONLY what is written. To determine what is WRITTEN in so far as we are able to understand English and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit operating within His Body on this forum. In other words I want to stick to discussing the meaning of what Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Not to get sidetracked into whether we should apply what he wrote to today or not. Perhaps we can save a discussion of modern application for another thread. What did the Corinthians understand Paul to mean by what he said to THEM. That's what I want to discuss in this thread. If anyone wants to enter a friendly discussion with me about that....GREAT. Let's go for it. I think there is a lot in this chapter that we can learn from. If we, as Christians, can keep the flesh under check by the power of the Spirit and keep from arguing over what is written. At least I hope there are some Christians here who can control their natural impulse to argue enough to have a fruitful and profitable discussion to the greater glory of God. We'll see I guess. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemaughan Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 630 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1990 Share Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) My take on it is this... bear with me, I'm a new creature in Christ. The gift of tongues, as far as I know, was a miraculous gift that allowed someone with the gift to speak without knowing what he was saying, and be understood clearly by a foreigner. This was obviously a very important spiritual gift- key for spreading the Good News to the various foreigners who have never heard it before. And that's what Paul says it's for, in verse 22. '...not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.' After verse 25, Paul talks about the rules of the gift of tongues. It wasn't to be used to preach in church, it was a very private thing- 2 people, 3 at the most. One would speak, the others would interpret. So ya, I think the gift of tongues was just a tool to get foreign people to come to Christ. I don't quite know my biblical history yet- but I'm assuming the Corinthians were taught this so that they could spread the Word in all forms. Chapter 14 also talks about the gift of prophesy- which I think was the gift to teach the Word. Not 100% on that. Either way, those two gifts would be important to Corinth to get their act straight and in turn help others. (love/charity) Again, I'm very new to deep study... but I figured I mind as well start somewhere. Edited October 10, 2008 by pokemaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2008 Since it is a kinda long chapter, I thought I would give a try on a few of the first verses. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1 Cor 14:1-5 (KJV) Verse 1 Called for them to follow after love, encouraged them to desire spiritual gifts, and rather that they might prophecy Verse 2 Explained Paul's reasoning, in that no man undersatands tongues, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. Verse 3 Declares that he that prophecies edifies, exhorts, and comforts. Verse 4 Tongues does self edification, prophecy edifies the church Verse 5 Paul desired that they all speak in tongues, but preferred that they prophecy, declaring that he that prophecies is greater than he that speaks in tongues, except he interpret so that the church might receive edifying. SO, I think Paul stressed love first, encouraged spiritual gifts, and recommended that they prophecy more so than speak in tongues, because prophecy can build up and equip someone, whereas tongues only benefits the person speaking. I think the early church understood that love must be the environment for any and all spiritual gifts to work, and Paul stressed that many times. (edited by moderator) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I Cor. 12-14 is about the use and misuse of spiritual gifts, not their supposed cessation. I Cor. 14 talks about private, devotional tongues for self-edification and worship to God. Our mind is unfruitful because they are to God, not preaching to man (misconception based on Acts 2 error). It also talks about tongues and interpretation for corporate edification as well as prophecy. Paul encourages the spiritual gifts, but decently and in order in the church. Each verse must be exegeted in context without bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I Cor. 12-14 is about the use and misuse of spiritual gifts, not their supposed cessation. I Cor. 14 talks about private, devotional tongues for self-edification and worship to God. Our mind is unfruitful because they are to God, not preaching to man (misconception based on Acts 2 error). It also talks about tongues and interpretation for corporate edification as well as prophecy. Paul encourages the spiritual gifts, but decently and in order in the church. Each verse must be exegeted in context without bias. Short, sweet and right on the money, godrulz!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthbringer Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1949 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My take on it is this... bear with me, I'm a new creature in Christ. The gift of tongues, as far as I know, was a miraculous gift that allowed someone with the gift to speak without knowing what he was saying, and be understood clearly by a foreigner. This was obviously a very important spiritual gift- key for spreading the Good News to the various foreigners who have never heard it before. And that's what Paul says it's for, in verse 22. '...not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.' After verse 25, Paul talks about the rules of the gift of tongues. It wasn't to be used to preach in church, it was a very private thing- 2 people, 3 at the most. One would speak, the others would interpret. So ya, I think the gift of tongues was just a tool to get foreign people to come to Christ. I don't quite know my biblical history yet- but I'm assuming the Corinthians were taught this so that they could spread the Word in all forms. Chapter 14 also talks about the gift of prophesy- which I think was the gift to teach the Word. Not 100% on that. Either way, those two gifts would be important to Corinth to get their act straight and in turn help others. (love/charity) Again, I'm very new to deep study... but I figured I mind as well start somewhere. The problem with your veiw is V2 says No man understands it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Good topic, you are very brave! Did the Corinthians understand what Paul was writing to them? I imagine they did. He was writing it directly to them, addressing problems and issues they had within their church. He did not have to repeat this in 2 Corinthians. What he told them stuck, and they followed his instruction. He didn't have to explain the whole thing over and over, he told them once, and they obeyed. Plus, I think people were smarter then, so they understood God's Word better than most people do today. Most of Corinthians is about the church. Proper behaviour, proper worship, proper discipline, proper attitudes, within the church. So, while 1 Corinthians 14 is mainly about the gift of tongues and prophecy, I believe it is in the context of what is edifying to the body of Believers, not just what is acceptable and what is not. v.12 Since you are so eager to have spiritual gifts, ask God for those that will be of real help to the whole church. v.26b But everything that is done must be useful to all and build them up in the Lord. When we get a command, or direction from God's Word, it is understood that someone somewhere is having a problem with that. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, clearly we have a problem with that, so he gave clear direction as to what to do. So here, when he is discussing the proper use of tongues and prophecy within a worship service, I believe, that it is because some were having a problem, either using the gift or abusing it. Just as they do today. I also believe that this entire chapter speaks of ORDER. v. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the other churches. v.40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order. Chaos has no place in a worship service. I do find it interesting that amongst all this, he tells women to be silent in church. Amidst explaining tongues, and prophecy and order, he says women should be quiet, according to the LAW. Right at the end he puts God's benediction on all that he has said. v37b & 38 You should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself. But if you do not recognize this, you will not be recognized. I think what has been said in this chapter can be taken literally. It's not a parable or written as a poem. It's clear direction. From the Lord! Blessings, Bibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorywatch Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 692 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/02/1946 Share Posted October 10, 2008 The gift of speaking in a tongue was a concern of the Corinthian church because the use of the gift had caused disorder in worship. Speaking in tongues is a legitimate gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Corinthian believers were using it as a sign of a spiritual superiority rather than a means of spiritual unity. Public worship must be understandable and edify the whole church rather than just the individual who was speaking. The way the Corinthians were using tongues was helping no one. The believers didn't understand what was being said and the unbelievers thought they were crazy. Verse 16 gives a good example when it speaks to giving blessings in the spirit (or in tongues) but the host doesn't know what you said, he is not edified. He doesn't know if you blessed or cursed the food. Gifts must be used properly to glorify God, not the person speaking. Speaking in tongues is supposed to be a sign to unbelievers, that through tongues unbelievers would see the manifestation of the supernatural. The Glory belongs to God not man. The chief end of all gifts and worship is to bring meant to repentance and surender to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I was wondering if anyone would care to discuss 1 Corinthians chapter 14? Verse by verse. 1 Corinthians 14 1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. It would appear that the gift of prophecy is valued above all other spiritual gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted October 10, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Tongues is also a supernatural gift. They are unlearned languages, not something one studies or understands (Mormon missionary view). Acts 2:4 we speak as the Spirit gives utterance, so we have control, but cannot manufacture them. If they are extant languages, the audience may understand the praises to God if they know the language (but the speaker does not understand) as in Acts 2. Peter preached the gospel with his native language, not in tongues (misconception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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