redwing Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 400 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,903 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1942 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Poindexter, I'm old and kinda slow , so could you tell me what is the exact purpose of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Every person starts off on a level playing field... That is true. But then they should end on a level playing field. Why's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherTraveler Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,595 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 Two good old boys get in a fight. Neither one is a Christian. A knife is drawn and the one kills the other. Now the murderer goes to jail and when in jail there is a prison ministry and he gets saved. So now the murderer is heaven bound. But the guy who was murdered had no such last minute chance. He got killed and is now in hell. It does not seem like God to me. You sound like a nonbeliever. A non believer in what? The question involves a salvation issue. What is the line on salvation? Is it purely circumstantial? Yes, salvation is circumstantial. Yours is entirely dependent upon the circumstance of the Lord's death on the cross. Have you believed into His death, confessed His lordship and received Him personally as your Savior? In part, this post is an questioning of orthodox response. For the moment a question arises that does not fit the envelope of orthodoxy, folks get to thinking the one who asked the question is a child of a lesser god. Or they might be thinking you are insincere in your answers, and use doubletalk or change the subject to keep from answering pointed questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Or they might be thinking you are insincere in your answers, and use doubletalk or change the subject to keep from answering pointed questions. Those are usually the actions of someone who has something to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 Two good old boys get in a fight. Neither one is a Christian. A knife is drawn and the one kills the other. Now the murderer goes to jail and when in jail there is a prison ministry and he gets saved. So now the murderer is heaven bound. But the guy who was murdered had no such last minute chance. He got killed and is now in hell. It does not seem like God to me. Hi Poindexter. You know there are some things, like this example of 'situation ethics' that you have posed, that do not have any easy answers...you can go a step further if you like, and talk about the Jewish man who is starved and then gassed in a concentration camp, but never knows the L-rd as his Saviour, and the prison guard who raped and tortured prisoners, and then through the grace and mercy of G-d repents and becomes a Believer. I do not have an immediate answer, but what I base my understanding on is that the G-d in whom I believe is Holy and Righteous, full of Loving-Kindess, and His Mercy endures forever. Therefore based on what I know about the one to whom I have committed myself, I believe that no person will be turned away from His presence that doesn't deserve it, and that those who are welcomed into His presence, will not deserve it....thank G-d for Jesus. When looking at the justice of G-d, we have to realise that some things are literally 'past finding out'. We can try to put ourself in the judgment seat of G-d, and work out what should be done, but in the end it is futility, because we do not see the hearts and motives of man, and we are not the ones with a Divine Plan. You can look at all the starving people in the world, and demand G-ds justice, and raise a fist and cry 'why don't You do something'...or you can understand something of the corrupt nature of man living in a fallen world, and determine to do something yourself...however small. We need to be men and women of faith in the Living G-d...that means we trust Him totally, even to the point of death, and even when we do not fully understand some of the complexities involved in being G-d Almighty. This is not putting ones head in the sand, but it means that at the end of the day, when satisfactory answers elude us, we have to make do with partial answers and still trust Him. Some of us will have questions in our hearts that remain unanswered until we finally meet with Him, but don't ever let those questions turn your heart against the L-rd, because He loves us with an everlasting love. Our need is to believe now what has already been revealed, and to build upon the foundation of our redemption. In Messiah. Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 Two good old boys get in a fight. Neither one is a Christian. A knife is drawn and the one kills the other. Now the murderer goes to jail and when in jail there is a prison ministry and he gets saved. So now the murderer is heaven bound. But the guy who was murdered had no such last minute chance. He got killed and is now in hell. It does not seem like God to me. Sin has condemned both to eternity without God, in the Lake of Fire. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And yet God offers a chance for forgiveness of sins. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:17-18 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. The one who was killed, he had his chance. He has no excuse. Romans 1:19-20 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 Is David saved? Abraham? Noah? they never "knew" Christ. They never had that word preached. Where is the dividing line? Hebrews 11 7 By faith Noah, having been warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out into a place which he was afterward going to receive for an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he went. 9 By faith he lived in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs of the same promise with him. 10 For he looked for a city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. They knew to look to God for their salvation. They knew to expect the Messiah. By faith they were saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Two good old boys get in a fight. Neither one is a Christian. A knife is drawn and the one kills the other. Now the murderer goes to jail and when in jail there is a prison ministry and he gets saved. So now the murderer is heaven bound. But the guy who was murdered had no such last minute chance. He got killed and is now in hell. It does not seem like God to me. Chances are likely that man who was killed had an opportunity in life to receive the Lord, but didn't take it. That is a philosophical reply. Flip a coin on it. I just do not think physical death is the end of the matter. Are you promoting universalism (the belief that EVERYONE will eventally get saved, even after death)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [That is a philosophical reply. Flip a coin on it. I just do not think physical death is the end of the matter. Although that is what we preach. 1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? Hear, hear! Good fellow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Is it a job? And if so, what makes you the manager? Inquisitions and all. " But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, being always ready for a defense to everyone who asks of you an account concerning the chope which is in you" (1 Pet. 3:15) "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. " (Col. 4:6) Actually it's more of a privilege than a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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