If God's will is to save all His people

[Blien]

I dont mean to interject on your discussions here but I found the title and the content of the original post to be completely different... so I wanted to answer the title because thats the reason why I came to see the topic in the first place.

"If God's will is to save all His people: Will He be disapointed?"

God or his Angels by way of chance has pointed out this verse to me recently on the way to work. Look and listen to His answer to your question!

Suggested reading.. Read Hosea 10: 1 - Hosea 14:9.. but here are some highlights! Look at God talking about HIS Heart~! Have you ever read Him talk about his Heart? I've never...

Hosea 10

9 The Lord says,

[Botz]

Timely Scripture Blien .

G-d reveals His heart to His people.

[Dave123]

Blien, Romans 11 explains.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...&version=50

God certainly did not give up...on Israel. There was a covenant. Chapter 9 is obviously foundational to chapter 11 -- "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,".

Dave

Edited December 11, 2008 by Dave123

[Dave123]

I'll leave you with this thought by Spurgeon.

[legoman]

God's will be done:

Matt 6:10 your kingdom come,

your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

Isaiah 45:

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say: My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that will I bring about;

what I have planned, that will I do.

Isa 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Ultimately I think God's will will be done.

Legoman

[larryt]

God's will be done:

Matt 6:10 your kingdom come,

your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

Isaiah 45:

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say: My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that will I bring about;

what I have planned, that will I do.

Isa 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Ultimately I think God's will will be done.

Legoman

I guess you don't think God will be disappointed?

Neither do I.

LT

[Guest shiloh357]

So Jesus only made salvation available and so nothing is sure. That means that He could lose some of the sheep.

They do not become His sheep until they accept Christ. There is NOTHING in the New Testament that suggests that God decided who would or would not be His sheep.

No, I am not changing the subject. I am pointing out that the same word can be used a variety of ways depending on the context.

Even in English we take the word "love" and use it a variety of ways. I would not "love" my wife the same way "love" icecream. Just because a word is used in one manner in one part of the Bible, it does not give you license to use it that way every time it occurs in the biblical text.

So in this instance am I correct in assuming that you view "know" in the intimate sense?

I view it according to the way the author intended it in each individual, specific usage per passage.

Here is the problem with your hermeneutics. You look for other verses in the Bible that use "know" the way YOU want to apply it in the passage under question. Since you can find some other verses in other parts of the NT that use it the way you want to use it, you seem to think it is okay to apply that usage in the passage under question. That is the kind of slopply, hermeneutics that somes when you are simply using the Bible to front your theology instead of molding your theology around the Bible.

The OP is about making a predestination argument and that is so transparent, it would be dishonest of you to suggest otherwise.

I have already stated what I intended. How can you determine what it is that I intend? Are you god?

You don't seem to have a problem doing that kind thing to the Bible. You have no problem ignoring the intent of the authors of Scripture when it suits you. Doens't feel as good when YOU are the receiving end of heremeneutic gymnastics does it?

The commentators I quoted have to deal with Rom. 9:29. Your comment in post #20 addressing My post #18 do not find agreement with those that I cited. The root word ginosko is the same in both Rom. 9:29 and Matt. 7:23. And in Rom. 9:29 the majority of the commentators say that "foreknew" means to know in the intimate sense and not precognition. God has precognition of everyone. Those He had an intimate relationship with from before the foundation of the world He did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son.

Those that Christ did not have an intimate relationship with He commanded out of His presence.

Again, having the same root really has nothing to do with. Matt.7:23 is talking to workers of iniquity. Jesus does not mean "I never knew you from the foundation of the world." You are trying to pencil that in there. What Jesus is saying I never knew you throughout your life. From the time you were born, until now, I never knew you. Nowhere does it indicate that Jesus rejected them on the grounds that they were not chosen from before creation. And that is only ONE hermeneutic problem with your treatment of Matthew 7:23. It is way easier to rip one verse out of its natural setting than to examine it the way the author intended.

Secondly, your argument gets even more absurd in that you claiming that we had an intimate relationship with Jesus prior to our existence. Sorry, but no thinking person will accept such nonsense.

[Guest shiloh357]

No Libertarian free will theist can consistently say that God foreknew who would be saved and then also teach that God is trying to save every man. Surely if God knows who will be saved and who won't be saved, then how could anyone argue that He is trying to save more?

God does this so that all men are without excuse. God knows who will ultimately reject Him, but He provides them with the opportunity anyway. In this way, God's righteousness and justice is preserved. When the opportunity is presented and rejected, the one who rejected God's offer has no one but themself to blame.

Why would God send His prophets to plead with those who, according to your beliefs cannot hear Him, and even if they could hear him, would in their total depravity never respond in the first place? Why pretend that He is mourning and weeping over those he never had an "intimate foreknowledge/forelove (as you call it) for? God would, in essence, be dishonest and disingenuous, as there would be no intimate relationship to weep over to begin with. Frankly, it is YOUR position that really makes no sense.

Certainly, it is foolish to assert that God is trying to do something which He knew never could be accomplished.

Only when you are trying to assert false motives to God.

No Libertarian who embraces the foreseen faith position can consistently say that God foreknew which sinners would be lost and then say it is not within God's will to allow these sinners to be lost.

The problem with that logic is that it cannot be applied across the board with respect to God's nature.

God allows a lot of things to happen that are not in His will. He allows people to be raped, murdered, lied to, slandered, cheated, etc. That is because while God has a perfect will that hates those things, He has a permissive will that allows what He hates to occur.

God's perfect will is that EVERY person will be saved. However, God permits those to whom the offer is made to reject it anyway.

No Libertarian freewiller can consistently say that God foreknew who would be saved and then teach that God punished Christ for the purpose of redeeming every single man that ever lived.

That is not what we teach. What we teach is that salvation is universally avaiable to all men.

The Bible never says that Jesus die for the sins of a select group of people. The Bible says that Jesus paid the penalty of SIN. It does not qualify WHOSE sin. Jesus satisfied God's infinite justice against sin, ALL of it. Meaning that Jesus died to satisfy the penatly of sin (death) that hung over the entire human race.

I have noticed a constant attempt to rewrite the Bible so that "whosever" or "all" and other such terms are changed in order to support a limited atonement.

No Libertarian can consistently say that God foreknew who would be saved and then preach that God the Holy Spirit does all He can do to save every man in the world.

When you consider the fact that God is provides every opportunity to all people and that this act prevents anyone from accusing God of injustice, then it makes perfect sense.

I think that most people naturally start out with the belief that it was all of there own that they came to Christ in faith.

I don't think you are qualifed to make such a statement. I came to Christ by the drawing the Holy Spirit. The same everyone does. Just because I believe and made the choice to accept Christ, it does not follow that I believe that I came to Jesus all my own. .

[legoman]

God's will be done:

Matt 6:10 your kingdom come,

your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

Isaiah 45:

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say: My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;

from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.

What I have said, that will I bring about;

what I have planned, that will I do.

Isa 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Ultimately I think God's will will be done.

Legoman

I guess you don't think God will be disappointed?

Neither do I.

LT

You are correct sir Ultimately God will not be disappointed. I was going to say that originally but I figure I'd let the scripture speak for itself.

Everything is going to God's plan - he has declared it ALL and will bring it all to pass (Isaiah 46:9-11).

Legoman

[kross]

despite the fact that there are many Christians who will ignor the 100+ scriptures that teach we are predestined for adoption and chosen before the foundations of the earth for salvation, it is still the truth.

There is no way to twist the scriptures to deny this fact to those who read the Bible and believe what it says. There are those who twist the scriptures to convince themselves that they are the GOD of their salvation. They cannot, in their humanity, comprehend the ways of this truth. They refuse to aknowledge that GOD is GOD.

GOD will not be disapointed for HE will save all that are HIS. Not one of HIS people will perish. HIS sheep will follow HIM and will not follow another.

Tares are never wheat, wheat are never tares. They grow up together but they come from a different seed and thus a different father. JESUS uses this parable to show that we cannot know the difference in Satan's people and GOD's people until GOD's people mature. A tare is a very specific plant that looks just like wheat until the wheat matures. So it is with Satan's people and GOD's people. While they may look the same in their infancy, they are, and always will be, of their original parent plant.

GOD has HIS people in this world, Satan has his. Neither one will become th other and all that are of GOD will come to JESUS.