How Does The Holy Spirit Intercedes?

[poorinspirit]

Today's lesson is based on reading the scriptures with the knowledge of Jesus Christ as the only Mediator between God and man in according to the will of God. By His grace, with that in mind, we can read the scriptures below for what it testifies of Christ Jesus in regards to the role of the Holy Spirit being in us as the Comforter.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Now let us take a moment to really read that verse above. Sometimes we read what we think we already know, but sometimes assumed teachings by others has a tendency to cloud our perceptions.

We read in verse 26 that that "the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities": signifying His role as the Comforter in that "for we know not what we should pray for as we ought". So it goes on to explain what the Holy Spirit does not do...uttering any sound in making this intercession as it is written...."maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered".

Then we take note of Paul's intended purpose of the use of the pronoun, "itself", in referring to the Holy Spirit. Now we know Paul has referred to the Spirit with the pronoun of He or Him elsewhere, so the use of the pronoun, "itself" refers to the Holy Spirit being the means as in declaring that the Holy Spirit is the means for which Another intercedes by. If we read on, then by His grace, we shall see how the Holy Spirit can intercede for us with utter no sound whatsoever.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now take note of the use of the pronoun "he". This is the third Person that searcheth the hearts AND knoweth the mind of the Spirit. That means the "he", which is a third person, for Him to know the mind of the Spirit cannot be the Spirit Himself anymore than the "He" that searcheth the hearts is not us.

So the "he" is not the Spirit nor us that maketh intercession for the saints in verse 27. Then Who is He that knoweth the mind of the Spirit and can searcheth our hearts? We see the confirmation of our belief when it is stated "according to the will of God".

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

More confirmation follows in the same chapter of Roman 8 as it repeats Who it is that really maketh intercessions for us.

Romans 8:34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Verse 34 declares Jesus at the right hand of God who also maketh intercession for us. The "also" is not implying another mediator. The "also" is referring to Jesus being at the right hand of God where the only Mediator would be.

Now let us see how perceptions in reading Romans 8:26-27 of the King James Version can be affected if we use another Bible version. We can even see how a false perception can circulate among the churches to even affect our reading of the KJV from this bad grammar in the NIV.

Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

First off, the KJV says groanings which cannot be uttered whereas the NIV declares that the Holy Spirit himself (note the use of the pronoun himself) is making intercessions by making groaning sounds which words cannot express. This errant verse is being used to support prayer language, but the KJV says no sound at all is being made. This should be a "comfort" to all believers knowing that they do not have to have this erroneous prayer language for God to know what they are going through when they do not know what to pray for. He already knows, thanks to God the Father for the Holy Spirit fulfilling His role as the Comforter by abiding in us so that Christ Jesus, Our only Mediator, knows what is going on. Another reason why we can rest in Jesus.

Second off is the bad grammar in verse 27. How can the "he" that searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit BE "the Spirit"?

In spite of the NIV having 1 Timothy 2:5 and Romans 8:34 saying the actual meaning found in the KJV, but because of Romans 8:26-27 in the NIV, believers gloss over 1 Timothy 2:5 and Romans 8:34 as if the Holy Spirit is also the Intercessor in the NIV. Some interpret the meaning of the Mediator to mean something else and not the only Intercessor or the only High Priest between us and God. Some just don't think about it as they will use the errant perception and false assumption to continue an unBiblical practise in regards to having prayer language (supposedly the gift of tongues that comes without interpretation) or even praying to the Holy Spirit.

Should we discern the gift of tongues that comes without interpretation? If we are to test the spirits, then we should also test the tongues. Paul gives this guideline for the use of tongues in church.

1 Corinthians 14: 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Is that being done in your church? If not...

1 Corinthians 14: 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

It is pretty clear there is no such a thing as time set aside for prayer language. If no interpretor, the speaker in tongue is to be silent while speaking to himself and to God.

1 Corinthians 14: 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So what happens if there is no interpretor? Then discern the tongues and how the person got it. Did he get it by seeking it from Jesus? Heed the question. From Jesus or from the Spirit? Who is the Mediator?

Why is that important? Because there are tongues in the world that is gibberish as they are obtained by seeking after other spirits.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Who are we to seek after? Jesus Christ. It is by Him we have access to the Father in that we can pray to the Father as well in Jesus' name.

What is the repercussions for not going to Jesus, but after the "Spirit" as there is a teaching of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues circulating among the churches? (and yet Paul exhorted seeking the gift of prophesy over tongues)

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Like the wizard unto familiar spirits? Is this what happens when one calls for the Holy Spirit to come when He is in them? Is that not the hypocrisey that opens the door for a thief to break through?

Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

So the elect can be deceived to get tongues without interpretation. They just need to discern it, put it away with His help, and narrow the way back to the sraight gate: Jesus Christ. They may even need His help to provide linguists to record and translate to make sure they really do have tongues with interpretation in their church if the means by which they had gotten those tongues was also by seeking after the "Holy Spirit"... and not by coming to Christ Jesus in prayer.

Is there not only one baptism and one hope of our calling? Then how can there be another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues? And why tongues? Why not prophesy? Seems a coincidence that tongues which is gibberish is also found in the world?

Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Who is the Only Way to God the Father? Is that not the commandment? Does it not re-enforce 1 Timothy 2:5?

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Isn't Jesus the only Door? Isn't "another" baptism of the Holy Spirit climbing up another way?

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Isn't Jesus mentioning the stranger's voice applicable to tongues without interpretation? Why else would He say that unless it was a clue for discernment? Is this stranger's voice not the result of climbing up another way by seeking after another baptism of the "Holy Spirit"?

But by His grace, may we know now the actual meaning of God's word as well as the will of God that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit intercedes passively as serving the means by Whom Jesus knoweth the mind of the Spirit for Jesus to intercede for the saints according to the will of God.

Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

May God cause the increase for I know He has to perform a miracle to deliver those that have been led astray so that they may see the Truth and return to their first love: Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

[OneLight]

So . . . tongues are bad and anyone speaking in tongues is being seduced by an evil spirit? Did I get that right?

There is a lot more questionable in there then just tongues. Asking for a closer walk with God, which also will allow a more infilling of His Spirit, seems to be opening the door for thief to come through. Then there is the KJV only and no prayer language.

Poorinspirit, it is obvious that you are not in agreement with the Pentecostal movement. Does this also include not believing in the gifts?

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

Poorinspirit may also disagree with the doctrine of the Trinity since he denies that the word he can be a reference to the Holy Spirit.

[glorywatch]

"The Holy Spirit intercedes passively as serving the means by Whom Jesus knoweth the mind of the Spirit for Jesus to intercede for the saints according to the will of God."

How can you "passively" intercede? Intercede is a verb, which implies action. Passive means not acted upon.....so you have an oxymoron which makes no sense whatsoever.

All THREE persons of the Godhead search the heart. God the Father (1Chr 28:9); God the Son (Rev. 2:23) and God the Holy Spirit (1 Cori 2:10), so I am not really sure what the point of this "lesson" is.

[poorinspirit]

So . . . tongues are bad and anyone speaking in tongues is being seduced by an evil spirit? Did I get that right?

Tongues without interpretation is bad and even the elect can can be fooled by getting these tongues when they seek after the Holy Spirit in the same rudiment found in the world as others get tongues by seeking after spirits...and not after Christ. We are called to test the spirits and not just go with the flow. And if we cannot discern the tongues, then test them by getting linguists to see if they are Biblical tongues that comes with interpretation or not. If it is gibberish, then it is of the world, and God would have us stand apart from the world, and so we should be going to Jesus in prayer to overcome that which is in the world and return to our first love by narowing the Way back to the straight gate, Jesus Christ.. to avoid false prophets and false spirits. That is why His invitation in John 14:6 is the commandment in approaching God the Father and how singular it is in worship for it is His name which is above every other name: Philippians 2:9-11 & John 13:32-33 & John 17:1-5 by which we shall be judged by according on the House of God... John 5:22-23.

[poorinspirit]

Poorinspirit, it is obvious that you are not in agreement with the Pentecostal movement. Does this also include not believing in the gifts?

I believe the tongue is being gained after the rudiment found in the world and not after Christ.

I noticed your nickname to be OneLight. Do you believe Jesus is also the One Door?

I have heard this saying to be general in the pentecostal/charsimatic circle that all catholics were going to hell because of what they were doing as far as catholicism is concerned. ( I don't believe that, but I do believe they are labouring in unbelief not being mixed with faith in those that heard the Gospel and thus voiding faith in Him as Saviour and Good Shepherd. In other words, they will be found not ready and not abiding in Him for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at the pre-tribulation rapture event which will be God's judgment on the House of God... the Gentiles churches, before handing the despensation of the Gospel back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses after the rapture for the great tribulation period.)

In any event, God addressed the seven churches as in appliying it to seven kinds of believers to examine themselves or else to avoid that.

We see how the RCC offers a door to herself as well as many doors to the priest for confession and forgiveness of sins as well as other doors for mediation and works of righteousness to obtain through the Mass and penance and the pentecostal and charismatics would be pointing them to that singular Door of Jesus Christ to relate to God the Father in relationship as well as worship.

But yet, the pentecosal/charismatics do not see themselves as offering another door besides the one to Jesus either... another one to the Spirit. And they do not even recognize how all their churches combined are offering more than one door to the Spirit as well.... like for another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues, or to declare that as THE baptism of salvation as if one needs a sign of speaking in tongues to know that they have the Holy Spirit to know that the are saved....and as if the one baptism of the Spirit and the one hope of their calling fades from their minds, there are more than one baptism of the Holy Spirit; then you have those that preach receiving an anointing as if that is seperate from the baptism of the Holy Spirit... and then again...the anointing comes another time; then you have those that want to be neflamed by the presence of Christ; some would call the anointing power; or being filled with new wine, and to some being drunk in His presence or receiving fire as those that are enflamed with new wine would attest also... and then there is that continula filling of the Spirit as if everyone is a leaky vessel, ignoring the reality of Mathew 9:17 and Jesus' promise in John 6:35 for those hungering after righteousness to be filled by coming to and believing in Jesus. All that from a singular door to the Spirit, and yet the pentecostal and the charismatic ignore the same offense in the way the RCC offers many doors for a believer to enter into that relationship with God to relate to God.

It seems to me that clearly, there is only one Door and why Jesus is the only Way to the Father as His invitation is the commandment so as to avoid false prophets and false spirits as John 10:1-9 would speak of. Is it any wonder why those that have tongues with no interpretations can be categorized as the stranger's voice? And yet those that claim to have the Biblical tongues by the same rudiment would fail to have their tongues tested by a linguists by which sme churches did and discovered to their dismay that they didn't have the Biblical tongues after all.

So churches need to test the tongues as well as the spirits and recognize that by broadening the Way, they suffered a thief to break through. We were warned that false prophets and false christs will arise with signs and wonders to even fool if possible... the very elect.. Matthew 24:23-26 , so believers can get tongues with no interpretation and that is why we are called to test the spirits and what it is leading us to believe and do.. spirit worship when the real indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to lead us to testify and glorify Jesus Christ thus worshipping the Father IN spirit and IN truth. We can only know the Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us as promised for coming to Jesus... by faith: Galatians 3:14,26 and not by sight : Hebrews 11:1,6 & Ephesians 1:12-15 as opposed to that which is in the world where other spirits are and felt. 1 John 3:22-24 & 1 John 4:1-7

So the keeping of the faith is in this wise: 2 Corinthians 13:5 Do we rest in Him after coming to Jesus or do we continue to seek after that which denies the promise for coming to Him that we are filled, sealed, and thus saved? Since He will be appearing soon, should not our eyes be trained on Jesus, our forst love? He is called the Bridegroom for a reason and why the indwelling Holy Spirit and the faithful witness of the Bride will be giving only one kind of invitation... and that is to come to the Son to rest in Him.

Revelation 22:16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 4:10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The Gospel has to be simple, and that is why Jesus is the only Door. By offering another door to the Spirit which has many doors as well within as the RCC has within, there can be no rest in Jesus if He is our pitstop instead of our resting place... so to rest in Him and be found ready is.. to narrow the Way back to the straight gate and ceased committing spiritual fornication from which many are suffering within in more ways than one, scattering the flock from Him and voiding faith which is their wedding garment.

Ask the Lord what more could He have done in making us His so we can rest in Him? Isaiah 5

[poorinspirit]

Poorinspirit, do you have a clear concept of who the Holy Spirit is and His purpose?

Your assertion that the Holy Spirit does not intercede for us in a vocal and very real way does not agree with God's Word. The proof texts that you have used to illustrate your point are taken out of context and none of them are germane to the gift of tongues, and/or a private prayer language.

First off, you assume that Paul meant the word autos as gender neutral, and no comentator or greek lexicon that I know of agrees with you. The word in this case means himself, i.e. the Holy Spirit himself.

As for the word intercession:

INTERCESSION:

A. Noun.

enteuxis NT:1783 primarily denotes "a lighting upon, meeting with" (akin to B); then, "a conversation"; hence, "a petition," a meaning frequent in the papyri; it is a technical term for approaching a king, and so for approaching God in "intercession"; it is rendered "prayer" in 1 Tim 4:5; in the plural in 2:1 (i. e., seeking the presence and hearing of God on behalf of others). For the synonymous words, proseuche, deesis, see PRAYER.

B. Verbs.

1. entunchano NT:1793, primarily "to fall in with, meet with in order to converse"; then, "to make petition," especially "to make intercession, plead with a person," either for or against others; (a) against, Acts 25:24, "made suit to (me)," RV [KJV, "have dealt with (me)"], i. e., against Paul; in Rom 11:2, of Elijah in "pleading" with God, RV (KJV, "maketh intercession to"), against Israel; (b) for, in Rom 8:27, of the intercessory work of the Holy Spirit for the saints; v. 34, of the similar intercessory work of Christ; so Heb 7:25. See DEAL WITH, PLEAD, SUIT.

2. huperentunchano NT:5241, "to make a petition" or "intercede on behalf of another" (huper, "on behalf of," and No. 1), is used in Rom 8:26 of the work of the Holy Spirit in making "intercession" (see No. 1, v. 27).

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright

[arrowfromgod]

speaking in tounges ,,, i never have ,,, im saved tho ,,, ive heard others speak in tounges and felt the holy ghost there but i didnt understand them ,,, i seen some ppl in my opinion that just jibber jabber for attention ,,, i never saw it as a damning thing this jibber jabber but more as a weaker faith thing ,,, like tolerating an atheist in church (i once was an atheist and was tolerated lol) i gots ta think on this ,,, i do know paul said we are diff. and gifts are diff. i mean if i can hear the word of the lord and translate it to biker am i speaking in tounges??? or say if i speak in banker terms??? maybe i hear the word and translate it to junkie language,,, thats a gift right???

[poorinspirit]

"The Holy Spirit intercedes passively as serving the means by Whom Jesus knoweth the mind of the Spirit for Jesus to intercede for the saints according to the will of God."

How can you "passively" intercede? Intercede is a verb, which implies action. Passive means not acted upon.....so you have an oxymoron which makes no sense whatsoever.

All THREE persons of the Godhead search the heart. God the Father (1Chr 28:9); God the Son (Rev. 2:23) and God the Holy Spirit (1 Cori 2:10), so I am not really sure what the point of this "lesson" is.

Then explain how the Holy Spirit can intercede with groanings not uttered, hence no sound? This would lead the reader then, to see the "how"... by Jesus Christ knowing the mind of the Spirit, thus the reason why the interpretors used the pronoun "itself" instead of "himself" because the Holy Spirit isn't really interceding directly, but indirectly. Why would Christ Jesus that searches the hearts would also seek to know the mind of the Spirit if the Spirit is praying with sounds uttered? Is that not oxymoron moreso?

Are the Three Not One? If by Jesus, we have access to the Father and He is the Good Shepherd by leading us through the Holy Spirit in us, and the role of the Holy Spirit is to lead us to following Jesus, then how can our eyes be on the Spirit when the Spirit is pointing us to the Son? That is like not paying attention to where we are going. Keep our eyes on Jesus is the best way to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets. The Holy Spirit is in us and is not going anywhere as promised for coming to Jesus and believing in Him thus the reason why there is no more filling of the Spirit because we are filled, hence no more hungering nor thirsting as promised as well in John 6:35.

May the words of our mouths and the meditation of our hearts be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, My Rock and My Redeemer... so that others may see our faith and why we have entered into that rest when we came to You. Amen.

[nebula]

Tongues without interpretation is bad and even the elect can can be fooled by getting these tongues when they seek after the Holy Spirit in the same rudiment found in the world as others get tongues by seeking after spirits...and not after Christ. We are called to test the spirits and not just go with the flow. And if we cannot discern the tongues, then test them by getting linguists to see if they are Biblical tongues that comes with interpretation or not. If it is gibberish, then it is of the world, and God would have us stand apart from the world, and so we should be going to Jesus in prayer to overcome that which is in the world and return to our first love by narowing the Way back to the straight gate, Jesus Christ.. to avoid false prophets and false spirits. That is why His invitation in John 14:6 is the commandment in approaching God the Father and how singular it is in worship for it is His name which is above every other name: Philippians 2:9-11 & John 13:32-33 & John 17:1-5 by which we shall be judged by according on the House of God... John 5:22-23.

It always saddens me to see people ignoring the positive things Paul had to say about speaking in tongues while admonishing the Corinthians to use tongues properly.

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Paul's statement here clearly shows that the gift of tongues is meant to be used in and for prayer. After all, what is speaking to God but prayer?

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Paul states point blank that the gift of tongues is meant for self-edification.

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied;

Why do you supposed Paul said that he wished all spoke in tongues?

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

You see, the point of Paul's teaching here was not to tear down the gift of tongues, but to lift up the gift of prophecy.

Paul's admonishment regarding tongues was not to diminish the gift but to correct its usage in the public gathering.