Fraught Posted January 9, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 You do have a lively imagination. Try to remember we live by, believe, and teach THE BIBLE. LOL - i won't forget. it's part of the reason i love the bible so much. it's so full of things that make you think - and sit in wonder at His ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorywatch Posted January 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 692 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/02/1946 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Genesis 3:22, 23 says "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore, the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden." Personally, I think that addressess the issue, that they did not die because it says they had the potential to live for ever if they ate of the tree of life. Hard to eat if you are dead. Also, if you go back to verse 7 in the same chapter it says that they eyes of them both were opened and they sewed fig leaves together. There is no break in what happened. They were enlightened immediately. They had time to "clothe and hide" themselves before they heard from God. Eventually they died physically but their immediate loss was spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowfromgod Posted January 13, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 376 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/03/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/30/1962 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. You know . . . the way therories go . . . Do you suppose someone is going to try to argue that the tunics of skin meant that God made new bodies for Adam and Eve out of chimpanzees? i gotta throw that one at my preacher man just to see what he says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2009 Genesis 3:22, 23 says "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, Personally, this is one of the things I never really understood. Why do you think God didn't want man to have knowledge of good and evil? Isn't having knowledge of good and evil a prerequisite to having the free will to choose between good and evil? Any thoughts? IMHO, God didn't want Adam and Eve to know there was such a thing as evil. They were as innocent as newborn babes before satan entered the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiffy Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 i have finally gotten around to reading the book 'darwin's black box'. interesting stuff. in pondering on the facts about gene mutations, etc. causing diseases, hereditary defects and the like, i think back to God's statement that on the day they eat of that tree, "they shall surely die". i think, perhaps, they did die. in some way. physically, not just spiritually. that God revived them and at that time put their bodies in operation with all the various molecules and atoms of the cell, the dna & rna, etc. we know their bodies must have been different after they ate - thus, the sudden realization that they were naked. voila, a temporary life to give mankind another chance. i'm interested in your thoughts about this matter and any other insights gained by anyone who has read this book or another like it. Haven't read the book, but my notion of the fall has some similarities to what you've posted here. Seems obvious that something immaterial died immediately in the fall evidenced by the fact that before eating, Adam and Eve enjoyed a face to face relationship with God, while immediately afterward they hid from Him. Something in their spiritual makeup changed from purity to stain, from pefection to imperfection, and this impurity caused antithesis in the meeting such that concealment seemed appropriate in Adam's mind after eating where before no tension existed in the relationship. If we extrapolate a fairly orthodox tripartite view, spirit (animating principle) vitalizing matter (body) to produce soul or mind, the causative path of the fall would be that something first died in animating principle, which transfered naturally to both soul and matter. It was first seen in soul in the shame and hiding, and can be traced in mutations of matter in that human lifespan according to Scripture began to shorten. This view, wholly Biblical, lines up with your comment, "...in pondering on the facts about gene mutations, etc. causing diseases, hereditary defects and the like, i think back to God's statement that on the day they eat of that tree, "they shall surely die". In the above, there's no reason to impose a physical death and revival, though it's of note that imo Scripture is primarily given to us as a metaphor and secondarily a literal account, the figurative lines you draw seem to me perfectly valid, i.e., the killing of an animal as a type of atonement. One aspect of note about the view I present is that it is perfectly compatible with Genesis in both its literal and mythological senses. Seems to me you are aiming a bit more toward the marriage of Genesis with biological evolution. I don't see too close a connection here, but the mutational elements of what you presented seem logically relevant. I heard another idea some time back that only matter began to mutate in the fall, something in the fruit of the forbidden tree changed dna or some such idea, but I suspect this theory was advanced as much to protect the notion of a free (and hence freely choosing) spirit and mind while limiting decay to matter only. This view has many logical problems, though, and can't see how it can be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted July 30, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2009 The bible does not say that they died physically. It also does not say that God did anything to them, but sacrificed an animal to cloth them, which was the first sacrifice. Sin is was changed man. Genesis 3 To the woman He said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fremontdenver Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2009 yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Genesis 3:22, 23 says "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, Personally, this is one of the things I never really understood. Why do you think God didn't want man to have knowledge of good and evil? Isn't having knowledge of good and evil a prerequisite to having the free will to choose between good and evil? Any thoughts? God is like a father here and you know dad doesn't want his children to grow up- maybe God is struggling with how far to go with this free will thing already it is like a bad experiment and God actually destroys humanity and God regrets making man ... Curtain closes and scene two the God of the Bible is very complicated - certainly we should be able to appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 13, 2009 What about the story of Cain and Abel? Here is a man murdered by his brother and although Cain is punished the punishment is weak and he is even protected by God. Where is justice for Abel? This is the first death and it was a murder and the consequence??? Genesis 3:22, 23 says "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, Personally, this is one of the things I never really understood. Why do you think God didn't want man to have knowledge of good and evil? Isn't having knowledge of good and evil a prerequisite to having the free will to choose between good and evil? Any thoughts? this is one that is hard to fully understand. A few points though... They didnt have to choose between good and evil, just right and wrong, which they knew already. They knew it was right to eat of all the tress but one, they knew it was wrong to eat of the one tree. My young son does not understand good and evil, but he does know right and wrong. Yes, I understand the distinction. I'm wondering though, do you think they could have committed an evil act and yet not sinned? Having no knowledge of the distinction between good and evil, would God hold them accountable for their evil? I think the majority of Christians would agree that sin is falling short of God's mark, or something along those lines, now if they had no concept of good and evil, God wouldn't expect them to choose good over evil, therefore, in choosing evil they do not fall short of God's expectation for them, and thus don't sin. Which leads to the idea that not all evil is sin, at least before the fall which in turn leads to the idea that before the fall, God tolerated evil. This just seems at odds with most Christian teaching that I've encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Genesis 3:22, 23 says "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now,Personally, this is one of the things I never really understood. Why do you think God didn't want man to have knowledge of good and evil? Isn't having knowledge of good and evil a prerequisite to having the free will to choose between good and evil? Any thoughts?God is like a father here and you know dad doesn't want his children to grow up- maybe God is struggling with how far to go with this free will thing already it is like a bad experiment and God actually destroys humanity and God regrets making man ... Curtain closes and scene two the God of the Bible is very complicated - certainly we should be able to appreciate this. Oh Yes Indeed God Is The Believer's Father And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6 And Like The Loving Parent That His Is Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17 He Wants The Best For His Kids Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18 Not The False father Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44 Nor Other gods Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; Ezekiel 16:36 What Do You Teach Your Children? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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