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Reading it, it looks like it's happening to Isaiah, and paints a prophetic picture of what Christ would suffer. Prophets often experience a part of Gods heart by going through it, for example the Lord had Hosea marry a prostitute, so he could deeper feel the relationship between God and Israel. In Isaiah, it could be simular, he is beat yet doesn't fight back as an experience to feel what Jesus would feel in taking upon himself our transgressions in Isaiah 53.

Which I don't mean to come across bitter about it, but I am glad you presented the challenged question. Christ's righteousness makes it all possible... it will always fall back to boasting in that.

The only hole in this thinking is that from where God sits, time is not a restriction... Forgiveness happens in His dimension, where in time that blood was/is shed is irrelevant. From where God is, it all happens on one continuum... past, present and future are all but one to Him. Believing in Jesus, being baptized, and having faith in Him is not a one time affirmation... it is an ongoing affirmation that you profess daily from the time that you believed on... Now I am not saying that if one becomes weak, backslides, and doesn't die to self everyday that they will lose the promise... but what I am saying is that in time, with enough unrepentant rebellion and backsliding, one can fall out of the promise. That's what Hebrews is saying. So this is a very basic fundamental doctrine that cannot be denied. To deny it is to deny scripture and the Truth... to deny this is to set no boundaries for the manifestation of faith and belief... and the road is narrow and has boundaries. Jesus clearly explains this as the Lamb as well as later in scripture as the Lion... Again, I am not one who supports that one can never really be sure of their salvation because I believe those that are in Him and He in them, have eternal life and have that blessed assurance. I do support that one's faith and belief must be manifested in their walk for life. Obedience is a manifestation of faith... to love Yeshua is to obey Him. You can fall, stumble, and backslide temporarily and He will gladly accept us back when we repent of our lusts/sin and seek Him... but if you abuse the grace then you might be crossing the Galatians 6 boundary... Gal 6:7-8 The Scriptures 1998+ (7) Do not be led astray: Elohim is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he shall also reap. (8) Because he who sows to his own flesh shall reap corruption from the flesh, but he who sows to the Spirit shall reap everlasting life from the Spirit. Whose righteousness gets the saints to heaven, their own or the righteousness of Christ imputed to them? Will your car run on gasoline if there is no engine? Is it possible to claim to have Christ's righteousness and be a liar? How is His righteousness manifested? Are there conditions to get into heaven? Even after conversion? What does Rev 22:11-14 mean? ISR 1998 (11) “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. (12) “And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work.1 (13) “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. (14) “Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. So to answer your question, His Righteousness is manifested in our believing. Our believing is manifested by our faith. Our faith is manifested in our love for Christ. Our love for Christ is manifested in our obedience in His commandments. His righteousness affords us the ability to either reject or accept His Truth. http://hissheep.org/...at_calvary.html So to question your answer, does the believer who does not walk in perfect obedience go to heaven on their righteousness or the righteousness of Christ? Or do they go to heaven? Okay, I'll try this again. By saying "believer", I will assume you mean a person who meets the prerequisites to be called a "believer"... the prerequisites being such things as being born again, walking the victory of the spirit, obeying His commandments, giving spirit, loving Christ, loving His church, and working out their salvation in faith. All these are manifestations of the faith of the believer. The fruits are evident. As far as walking in perfect obedience, I don't know exactly what you mean by that... You're either walking in obedience or you're not... if we stumble and sin while walking in obedience, then we have to confess it, repent of it and will remain in obedience. If you stumble and sin, don't confess it, and don't repent of it, then you aren't walking in obedience. If we're walking in disobedience, after coming to the knowledge of truth, that doesn't mean we automatically fall from grace but it does mean that we've started down that road to breaking the covenant. Sin can lead to more sin, which leads to other sin, and before you know it, you're outside of God's Will. From Experience, I know God will take us back once we repent in humility and cry out for His grace though. We need to have reverence for God that we don't die in disobedience...nothing is guaranteed at that point. It is the obedient that can claim God's righteousness through Christ. Because the lukewarm believer, walking in disobedience, will be spit out. And you've also made an assumption that we agree on what "imputed righteousness of Christ" is. You probably have this huge theology understanding of it, but my understanding of the righteousness, sanctification and redemption of Christ is what gives us the ability to have our previous sins forgiven... His Righteousness is from Him having no sin, and from dying, becoming the curse for man, and being resurrected .. and thus empowering us to walk in His Righteousness, having victory over sin. If we do sin after coming to the Knowledge, confess it, repent of it, then we are cleansed from that sin. It's not a free go to heaven ticket for anyone claiming to be a believer. If that was the case then Christ wouldn't have said "get away from me, I never knew you"... because those whom He rejects have and will have failed at meeting the basic prerequisites of a believer. There are many who call themselves a "believer" who aren't. So when a true believer goes to heaven, it will have been because of Christs wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption from God that it made it possible to believe, repent, and walk in the spirit. So it will always fall back to what He done on the cross, in that it was God's New Covenant established unto to man, to forgive man for his previously committed sins. Once you're under the new covenant, there is no excuse to walk in the flesh and sin but rather we are empowered to walk in the spirit without sin. That doesn't mean we don't fall into temptation and sin from time to time... but if we confess and repent of them then we have an advocate in Christ. You know thinking about all this, I realize that the same Spirit that is in Francis Chan, to challenge and reject it if necessary; man-made theology, traditions, and non-biblical practices, is the same Spirit that is in me. so after all that I take it is the not Christ's righteousness but the person's. Thanks, I will stick with believing it is the righteousness of Christ and being in Christ that makes the difference. But I do agree that the just will live by faith and be following the leadership of the Holy Spirit(Rom 8:14). But we add nothing to His righteousness and that is what paid our sin debt and gave us peace with God by grace through faith in His Son and having heard the gospel we believed and were sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption(Eph 1:13-14) Nah, you aren't reading what I said, which I kind of figured being that you were just presenting me with a loaded canned question, not really wanting to engage in real discussion. You can't pull any one verse out of the bible and create an entire theology around it. If you do, you will get the rest of the bible to say what you want it to say.

Matt 3:11 - I (John the Baptist) will baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one (Jesus Christ) who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. So it seems that it is the baptism from the Holy Spirit that is of most importance and not water baptism. If water baptism is a must, then there are no death bed conversions, and those who confess and believe do not make it into the Kingdom. Our only part in becoming "saved" is receiving/taking the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ. If we claim anything more that we did, then we can boast about it. It is not of our works that we become saved. Works come afterwards; which give us our rewards. Not Salvation. For who is strong enough to take us out of our Heavenly Fathers Hand. In Christ Montana Marv

Another great song!

Great song Patticats. Thanks for the share!

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DGDGDGNX

Good song, than you for sharing it! God bless.

It is working today. lol.

It's The Best The Islamic Will Ever Get And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. Revelation 13:4-9 It's The Worst The Believer Will Ever Get And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 Blessed Be The Holy Name Of Jesus And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5 Maranatha~!

Thanks Joe ... !

http://youtu.be/4S_VkdCSK5A

2 Chron. 7 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. 17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations Hosea 9:15-17 (KJV) Does God's love change ? Perhaps you'll address please the rest of the post? Particularly the comment in green. Then we can get into that question in red. What do you think? 1. question: I do believe in Jesus and his doctrine(commandments) is the only way I also believe what Jesus says we must do. 2.question: Baptism is not for show, its for your birth - to be born again. I do believe Jesus said you must be born again to enter in to the kingdom. so did he change on that sometime later ? How do you think on that ? . 1. Question: So did Jesus say "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me {and the commandments of God}"? John 14:6 The Law (the commandments) doesn't save my friend. There is no Jesus + {insert here} = salvation. 2. I believe being born again happens when one believes and confesses Jesus is Lord. You don't have to wait until baptism to be born again. Where do you get the idea in the Bible that baptism is required to be born again? God bless, GE

Taste But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 And Spit For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 Or Taste O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8 And Swallow Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 For In My Book Jesus Saves Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25 And Men Don't For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10 See? I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.Isaiah 42:8 ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The King The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe

Eternal security, OSAS, both have differing doctrines but both end with the same destination. Jesus died for our sins. Past, present and future. Simply asked like this... I was not living when Jesus died for me, I was not born. What past sins had I committed? (unless you mean original sin, and that is a whole new ballgame). God knew the ones yet to come out of me, and had already forgiven me for them through the blood. The moment the "first revelation" (from the Latin velum - veil, or parchment, hence lifting or tearing of the veil) occurred at the time of the death of Jesus, we live under an open heaven, and God has told us that none will snatch us from His hand. None. So I stand under an open heaven, in His light. I am saved, sanctified, redeemed, and have no need to fear that every transgression of Law (and we all make them, it is impossible not to), will send me into darkness. The veil of darkness, and the parchment of law is torn, I stand in light.