Gentlewind

Blien~ Thank you again. Yes, I believe the Lord is speaking to me through you today. You opened the Bible and those verses were right there in front of you?! Amazing. I do feel as though I have been cursed in looking to others for answers on these (any) forums, because, as you've said, everyone will give a different answer. I suppose I am like Eve, wanting too much knowledge too soon; and look at all the trouble she got into! I know I must listen to Jesus and that He will never lead me astray; it is people who have, indeed, led me astray, away from my first love. I certainly did not mean to turn my heart from Him, but perhaps my thirst for knowledge was misdirected and He allowed me to wander. I will say this: even as I wandered He watched over me and He pulled me back from the danger just in the nick of time. He was faithful. A barren wilderness in an uninhabited salty land! I have been to the wilderness, and the land was salty and nothing good grew there. Perhaps the forums, if moderated properly are good for fellowship, prayer, and discussion, but who is our Teacher? I really must learn to trust Him in this. I will pray for deeper roots along that riverbank, reaching for the living water that only He can give me. He is alive and well, after all. And my heart? I don't want a human heart. I want a heart that beats only for Him. If I give Him my whole heart, then, and only then do I believe I can trust my heart. And the hearts of others? Who but the Lord knows the heart of a man? Thank you. I think I know what I must do. And I'll begin by pondering those verses you (He ) gave me and asking myself, just where has my lust for knowledge led me? Because it is a lust. To desire knowledge of Scripture is good, but not if I am impatient and turning to all the wrong places for answers. I need to slow down, and sit at His feet. I need to simply trust that He will give me what I need as I need it. Thank you, Blien, for being a prophet today. God is often in the timing. ~Gentlewind

Hello Blien~ I do understand what you mean, and, in a way, I have held fast to the same ideals. I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us if our hearts are in the right place, and if we are truly seeking God. I believe that some of what we experience in our walk with God may be extremely personal and spiritual and unique to us, in a one-on-one way--just me and He, so to speak. However, on the site I came away from, I realized that what many Catholics claim about Protestants is true to a certain degree: the church is split in so many directions-- it has become so fragmented--that there are, in fact, many, many people believing many, many different "truths", many of which contradict one another. In my heart, I believe I know Christ. I believe I have what I need for salvation. Like you (I think), I have had my share of spiritual experiences, dreams, and even one miracle that I believe was granted to me as a comfort I can forever remember. But my focus here is the Bible. I have seen, and seen well, the damage that can be done if everyone is allowed to interpret its words completely on their own, the result of which leads to terrible confusion and even contention among brethren. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I need to buckle down and study on my own (with the Holy Spirit attending); but, truly there is so much to learn, the task is daunting! (And I am trying!) In reference to the Bible, one needs to understand the language barriers in translation, the difference in culture between Biblical days and now, a rather sizable amount of history, and be able to put it all together in a reasonable fashion to truly understand its pages. I guess I'm in a position where I'd like to go deeper into Scripture. Scripture itself tells us we are not to remain "babes", but that we should continue to grow. I do apologize for so many questions in my OP. I suppose I'm looking for guidance and instruction with Biblical understanding, trying to remain teachable. Surely there are those who are qualified in this world to teach or disciple others. In the beginning--the very beginning of the church--people were taught by other people. The word, the good news, the gospel was handed one to another verbally. There was no New Testament. Of course, I realize all too well, that in this current day, I must be alert while being taught by anyone, seeking and searching simultaneously on my own to see if what is taught speaks of Truth. In light of where I've come from it seems very complicated, but perhaps my biggest mistake was leaving the simplicity of my original faith where I was free of such worry and very content. And yet, the Bible is there, in all its glorious bulk, just waiting to be studied. I suppose I'm asking advice. I don't really expect any one person to answer all my questions. I understand this is the job of the Holy Spirit. If the Bible seems hard to understand, should I just accept that perhaps I'm not meant to understand all of it, or should I seek help? I will stop here and just be open to what others may have to say. Thank you, Blien, for your reminder of my most important Teacher. ~Gentlewind

I would like to dedicate this thread, in a general way, to the collection of books and letters we call the Bible. Recently, (on another site which I have finally abandoned) I have been witness to the many ways people can approach the Bible with ill intent: Some will cherry-pick verses to support doctrine they wish to be true. Some seek to twist the verses to mean things they were never meant to mean. Some claim to have an understanding of the Bible all their own, and further claim their understanding is the only true interpretation. Some add to the Bible, some subtract. I have been cast into a sea of confusion. Perhaps though, God allowed me to almost drown in this confusion, that He might hold out a hand to me, as He did to Peter, that I might be brought safely to shore, learning never to take my eyes off Him again. Scripture should be our safe harbor in the faith. As 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God (or woman ) may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. While it is true that the Bible in printed, compiled form did not always exist, God has seen fit that, at some point, the Bible come into existence that we might search, study, and learn directly from its pages. I have some basic New Testament knowledge, and I've read the Bible cover to cover once; but, with the help of those on this site, I would like to go deeper and study Scripture in its entirety. I have come to understand why Worthy is Bible based, why Worthy keeps watch to be sure only sound doctrine enters its forums, and above all why we must protect our understanding carefully, and work hard to not be led astray. On this thread, please tell me about the Bible: perhaps a brief history; why only certain books were accepted into the canon; who actually compiled its pages; what is the best method of studying its treasures; what Bible study tools and aids have you found most useful; why you love these ancient books; how best to protect our correct understanding of the Bible; is it even possible to truly understand ALL of its pages; how to determine what is parable and what is literal; a brief description of how Biblical symbolism and foreshadowing should be sought and studied; how the Bible changed your life; what Scripture did our Lord have at His fingers, and how did He employ it; where on the Worthy forums is study of Scripture done most; who on Worthy are some of your most trusted teachers; and anything else you might wish to tell me or others about the Word of God. (Wow! That was a lot of questions! ) Thank you all so very much ahead of time for your replies. Just answer in part, whatever questions interest you. I'm all ears. (or eyes) I may simply rest on this thread alone for awhile. Please feed me. I'm hungry for sound doctrine and Truth; help me reach the shore. ~Gentlewind

CBE~ I'm a little bit crazy right now from doing battle in a foreign land where they do not believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is God. They have bruised and injured me and I am so confused and weary. Today I tried to read my Bible and every word of it sounded like gibberish. Is the majority written in code? Do any of us really know anything? I am so . . . despondent. What is this we do to one another? One claims God has given, another says no, He most assuredly hasn't. One says God is found in scripture, in the Word, and we learn from it. Another says, go directly to God and He, Himself will teach you. Another says listen to my Church, they hold the true teachings. Some say listen to me, for I've got it figured out. One says the Bible is literal, another says it is all in parables and must be raised up to be understood. One says use commentaries and lexicons, another says, no, you can't trust translators or interpreters. All is confusion. Perhaps this is where God wants me at this moment. To stand before everyone and say, "I know absolutely nothing." Do we work together before God or do we work against one another? I'm sorry for interupting. I know my emotions are getting the better of me right now. I should be in Prayer Requests. But I looked for CBE, because in Him I have a friend, and I just wanted to say, I love you, CBE, and I know how hard all of this is. Are we being put to the fire, is that it? I understand nothing. I am lost beyond measure, and only God will find me. Words can not express how weary I am. Please, be gentle with one another. Do we ever grasp the power we have to harm one another? ~Gentlewind

As LadyC said, it would be impossible to ride an unbroke colt into such a "charged" environment. For the colt to peacefully allow Jesus to even ride it was cool, but the fact that it remained calm testifies to its recognition and trust of its Maker, in my opinion. Now, if I can just get Jesus to come work with my horses . . .

Priorities are necessary, yes. But cruelty is cruelty. Anywhere, anyway, we can lessen suffering--human or animal-- can only serve to make the world a kinder place. It isn't hard at all to find something to wear other than fur. An old song: Bless the beasts and the children For in this world They have no voice They have no choice

Thank you all so much for your replies. I do feel much better and ready to move on. I will take all you've said into consideration. And, Lady C, I do understand the "Berean" concept; after coming to Jesus, I searched forreevver for a church I felt comfortable in, and my "home" is now in a small Berean church. Living far out in the country, I can't always attend as much as I would like to, especially in the winter, so the internet is a special faith blessing. And, Permie, my good friend, I'm afraid I've done a wonderful job of derailing your thread, but I also hope, perhaps we've "cleared the air" a bit. Grace to All~ Gentlewind

Greetings Everyone~ Please note that when I precede a post with "Ummm . . .", it indicates I'm thinking deeply and giving an answer that I'm not necessarily sure of. As I have stated previously, I have not studied the Bible so in-depth that I have searched the meaning of specific words in Hebrew. I know of doing this, but I have never done it. Following this thread makes me aware of a new journey I must begin if I want to go deeper in my understanding of scripture. I don't believe my salvation depends on taking this journey, but my desire to understand the Bible fully may. Thank you, JamiLea, for your kind understanding. I come here to this site with my individual understanding of the Bible--my personal interpretation, yes. I realize some of my personal interpretation may be in error. I have never used a Lexicon. Please understand that I am way behind many (perhaps all) of you in my study. It is natural to struggle against changing your belief system. It can be said to be even a 'painful' process. But . . . speaking for myself (the only one I should speak for), I am not trying to "do" anything, I have no "agenda," and (clearing her throat), I certainly am not a "satanic infiltrator." Yes, several of us came here, together, from another site. This in itself seems to have aroused suspicion. But, please, do not group us together as one unit with an "agenda." We came from a site dedicated to unity among all Christians. However it is a Catholic owned and run site, so much Catholicism is presented, and many, many times the site became a battleground between Protestant faith and Catholic/ Othodox faith. Being somewhat of an "unstudied" Christian, a "babe" in the faith, I was cast often into a sea of confusion. I've shed real tears, and I have been tempted to throw my arms up in despair and confess that I will never understand, never sort it all out. I'm not saying I've been tempted to leave Christianity; I love Jesus too much to ever leave Him in any sense of the word; I've simply wondered if it is possible to truly understand . . . beyond my simple faith. (?) So . . . I hope you can see why our perceived reception here by some was only adding to a lot of hurt already experienced. I was the first of our "group" to come here, and I reviewed the site and was impressed with it, and thought it looked hopeful. I invited the others here. But we are individuals, with individual beliefs and interpretations. Some of my "group" have already run for the hills. I am stubborn and I tend to persist in most things beyond what I should. In fact, I still participate in the other site, mostly because it has taught me above all to be understanding of the fact that people come from all different places in the Christian faith and they come with very diverse understanding. Also our physical age has nothing to do at all with our "faith" age. Mostly I have learned not to make "church denomination" or "Bible interpretation" my god. Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God, is my God. And, yes, my "way" is often to speak from the heart. Within my head are many scriptures. I usually recall and use them by paraphrasing. Sometimes I recall what book they are from, but as good as I am with words, I have a serious inability to recall numbers. Really. I call myself 'numerically handicapped'. I am a published writer, still hoping to publish further works in the Christian Inspirational novel genre; but numbers and I don't mix well. Half the time I can't recall my own phone number, LOL. This can be quite embarrassing. Why God gave me words, but not numbers is beyond me, but who can question God? We got off to a bad start. I've often said that before we debate on forums, it would be best to get to know one another as friends. This takes a bit of risk and a position of making yourself somewhat vulnerable, because personal knowledge of someone can also, in the wrong spirit, be used against someone. But in the proper spirit, in true Christian spirit, I believe "knowing" one another beyond words on a computer screen will make us more careful and sensitive of one another's feelings. I called myself 'Gentlewind,' hoping for gentle treatment here. I can only speak for myself, but I'd like to please wipe the slate clean and start over; this is my new introduction. It is made in sincerity and I hope, I pray, it will be received well. I hope by giving a little background information you will perhaps understand "me" a bit more. God brought me here for a reason and I believe I have much to learn here, just as I did, and do, at the other site. Communicating as we are, so easily, online, with so many study resources available to us, is a true blessing of the time we live in. It also makes one aware of the sea of confusion in our faith. God put me in the middle of that sea first. I'm reaching for His hand to pull me out of it. I've learned we must try to be gentle with others, learn where they are coming from, where they are at in their walk with God, and above all else be humble and teachable. Add forgiving to that list. The Spirit God has given us is a very real gift. We must always strive to communicate in the Light of that Spirit. I'm learning I must pray before my fingers ever touch the keyboard on these forums. Still, at times my human inclinations get the better of me. If I have offended anyone here, I offer my apologies. Peace to All. In Love of Christ~ Gentlewind

Here we are on post #100 and no one has been able to identify/name the Spirit that God breathed into man to make us living souls. I wish you the best of luck with your request. May I suggest a different thread though? Ummm. . . wouldn't that be His own spirit?

Could someone, within one post, concisely give a definition for these two words: soul, spirit Thank you. Gentlewind

Thank you, OneLight, I'll check out your blog tomorrow. Need to get to bed, if I can drag myself away from this computer. Oh, and . . . I'm not a "brother"; I'm a "sister." Hehehe. See you tomorrow if I'm not banned for . . . whatever my agenda is. Blessings to You~ Gentlewind

Well, CBE, He told me to come to this site and I invited others (commonly referred to as "that little group"). Strange reception we've received . . . one accusation after another, from having an "agenda" to being Satanic Infiltrators, LOL. But, I still trust God has a plan. He does work in strange ways at times. And as OneLight wrote yesterday: for me, there is a lesson in everything I come across, even if I don't like what I see. God Bless You, Dear CBE~ Gentlewind

Don't be burdened. Pray to the Lord as a friend. For He is your very best friend. He know our needs and the needs of others before we speak them, and the Spirit also intercedes. There is power in prayer, yes, but his yoke is easy and his burden is light. Pray as though speaking to a friend. He hears even the unspoken word. ~Gentlewind

Never in my life have I seen people judge so harshly, so self-righteously, and condemn in so short short a span of time. Never! Why don't you cut to the chase and simply name the ones you are accusing? Why hide behind a veil of obscurity? Bring your accusations into the Light. If God has granted you permission to judge and actually call others "Satanic Infiltrators," surely he won't mind if you name the names of the accused. My advice is to be extremely careful of accusing others to be on the side of Satan! Absolutely ludicrous. Shameful. And the "pack mentality" you are displaying is all too familiar. When you point a finger in judgement based on so little knowledge of a person, you'd best go stand in the mirror as you point. Why is this thread even allowed to go on? Is there pleasure in this? By falsely accusing others of the most grievous sin (being of Satan), do you not see what you do? Have you eyes? Have you ears? Why is this allowed to go on? Such very, very harsh judgement. Hurtful judgement. Ungodly judgement. I'm astounded.

Judgement is the privilege of an all-knowing God.

no, I have the utmost faith in the Holy Spirit, that is why I trust His written word. It was the Holy Spirit that led the men to write the books of the bible. it is your lack of faith in the Holy Spirit that causes you to discount and disparage the Written Word of God. If you were to spend a little more time studying the written Word you would know that the Holy Spirit tells us we can be tricked by Satan. RG~ Can you please explain your accusation that Seeker "discounts and disparages the Written Word of God"? The word 'disparage' means to belittle. Where has Seeker belittled the Bible? Forgive me, but I do not see it. Thank you, In Christ, Gentlewind

We are body, spirit, soul? I need help here. Is this off-topic? Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. As for off topic? I don't know... maybe a good thread might be: How do I love God with my soul? Or, maybe... How does the soul affect/influence me? The Spirit that gives man life (God breathed, breath is equated with God's spirit, life into us causing us to become living souls) anyway... The Spirit that gives man life doesn't have to be instructed to love God, but the soul that doesn't obey/trust/believe in God doesn't know His Spirit... having hid themselves from God just as Adam and Eve did after their disobedience. So, then the Spirit loves God inherently, but it is the soul of a man (his inclinations, motivations, etc.) that makes the decision to accept Christ or not accept Christ? If we don't accept Christ, then we don't know or recognize the Spirit of God that lives within us from birth? (and yet, the Spirit is there in everyone, from birth, regardless?)To love God in truth our soul must align itself with the spirit of God inside us? So is our soul our "free will"? And our body's just the temple, the shell we leave behind at death? Sorry that was a LOT of questions. I think I'm confused. Is our mind part of our soul? Is the Spirit our strength? Is our heart part of all three? Somebody stop me!!!

Permie: We are body, spirit, soul? I need help here. Is this off-topic?

God created man in his own image; God is a spiritual being. To me, the scripture implies that we too, are created as spiritual beings. We are not just physical beings. We are two-fold entities, so-to-speak.

Amidst all the questions fired at Seeker, the one above seemed a primary concern to many. Is the answer not obvious? My husband and I have been married for over 30 years. We met when I was only 15 years old and he was 16. We grew up together and, as the Bible suggests, we have become almost like one person in so many ways. We know each other so well, many times we can communicate without words. A single glance, a certain expression, a touch of the hand . . . We know one another so well that often I know what he will say before he says it. If someone asks him a question and I'm beside him, many times I know how he will answer before he even begins. I know his likes, his dislikes, I know what pleases him and what makes him angry. I know what food he likes, how much sleep he needs, what he likes to read, his hopes, his dreams, his fears . . . almost everything. Spiritually, we are the mirror image of one another. We are soul-mates. He is truly my other half. Most importantly, we are best friends. Now, understanding how close my husband and I are, I ask: If my husband and another man were to write me a letter, and I were to read the letter, thus hearing the "voice" of both in my head via the letter--do you not understand that I would immediately--possibly within the first sentence--know which letter was from my husband? I know and love, in essense, his heart, his mind, and his soul. Therefore, I am confident I will know his "voice" within the letter. When I first met Jesus, over 15 years ago, my relationship with Him followed much of the same pattern as the relationship with my husband. I spent much time getting to know Him through every possible means; I read books on His life, I studied the New Testament-- especially the gospels--and I watched all the movies, I prayed, and I asked Him to reveal Himself to me. I taught myself to listen to Him, to listen for His voice. I have made it a priority to develop an ongoing relationship with Him. I have come to love Him with all my heart, my soul, and my mind. As with my husband I know and love, in essense, His heart, His mind, and His soul. Most importantly, we are best friends. Now, understanding how close we are, do you understand that when He speaks to me through an "inner voice" that I recognize it is Him and that it is His own Spirit within me that gives me the discernment? If I were to hear an inner voice telling me to microwave a baby or to drown my grandchildren or to make love to another woman . . . well, I hope by now you see how ridiculous it would be to think that I would not immediately know that a voice saying such things was not the voice of my friend, my savior, my God, my Lord. As Seeker said, I hear His voice. As Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice." I do not know all of scripture; I have much yet to study. But I testify that I know His voice. It is familiar and well-loved. If Seeker professes faith in Christ, if he says he hears the voice of Christ and that the voice is love and that the voice is his truth--why is so much doubt cast upon his conviction, upon his credibility and faith? Why the hammering for scripture? The Pharisees knew scripture, but did they know God's voice in their hearts? Did they even recognize God when He stood directly before them in the person of Jesus Christ? Are we saved by the scriptures? Or are we saved by knowing the voice of the Lord and following Him? Why are so many so quick to disclaim another's tie to Christ? Who is to judge? Can you know Seeker's heart or his relationship with the Savior? Are the words Seeker speaks too simple for you? Did Jesus not say that those who are not against us are for us? Did He not say He has sheep from another fold? Why gang up so eagerly to try to disprove Seeker's faith? In trying so hard to back him into a corner and disprove the legitimacy of his standing as a Christian, are you seeking to glorify your own standing in Christ? I don't like what I've read here tonight. I found the thread disturbing, and I don't like how Seeker was treated. He claims Jesus, but many here seem to be saying He doesn't claim Him properly or in the right way. Simple statements of Truth are ridiculed: God is love; Listen to the voice of God within you; He is the love to be served . . . Why try to disprove simple truths with scripture? Because he doesn't "talk Bible" the way you'd like, does that prove he's less of a Christian than you are?! Because he is a Christian Quaker does that make him fair game for unfair treatment? 34 pages, not of loving him and edifying his faith, but 34 pages of hounding him in an effort to . . . what? Ask yourselves, because I didn't like the atmosphere on this thread one bit. What did he say that was wrong? He wasn't the one bringing up microwaving babies, drowning children, homosexuality, or other ridiculous topics that anyone in Christ knows is not of Christ! Why badger him with such questions? Shame on you. Seeker is my brother and I love him; his love of Christ makes him family. Yes, he has much growing to do in Christ, but who among us doesn't?! But in you hearts, set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 1 Peter 3:15-16

Wow! What planet was that on? The lack of humans made it kinda creepy; all those machines partying without us . . . I expected the Terminator to walk in at any moment. LOL

Ahh, Mike, your words to me have always been so kind. I don't deserve what you've said. Anything of value you see in me is simply the Jesus-in-me. But thank you. I think you're pretty wonderful, too, and I'm looking forward to that walk together in the here-after! I've no doubt God will grant it! May God shower you with blessings today! With Love~ Gentlewind

In another forum, "once saved, always saved" was referred to as "an invitation to hypocrisy," based on the assumption that Protestants believe that once they are "saved" they may then go out and sin repeatedly and basically live a duplicitous life with nary a care because . . . "once saved, always saved." I find the assumption irritating, to say the least, and insulting to true Christians. But what is a "true Christian?" Salvation is a free gift of God. Never can we work hard enough or "do" enough to deserve it. Christ bought and paid for us with His blood. He stood in our place, payed the penalty for our sin--that penalty being death. My thoughts are that if one truly accepts and understands how great and wide this gift is, one will truly love--and love deeply--the One who gave the gift. To me, it is a matter of heart. How can we not love this man, this God, this Savior? And if we love Him, truly, with all our heart and soul and mind, (as we are commanded to do) will we not try extremely hard to emulate Him, to follow Him, to be like Him, to please Him? In short, will we not do our absolute best (imperfect though our efforts prove) to turn from sin? God looks upon the heart of a man. If our hearts are truly in the right place, if our hearts are truly clinging to our Savior, then I believe that, indeed, nothing can separate us from His great love. Do some hear the doctrine of "once saved, always saved," and flippantly think, "Well, I'm saved regardless of what I do, so I'll do whatever I wish and lean on the forgiveness promised me--over and over and over"? Surely some may. But I ask you: did such a professed Christian ever truly understand the gift or the extreme cost of the gift to the One who saved us? Did such a professed Christian ever truly understand or accept the gift if he/she could treat the gift/the Savior so callously? Salvation is an awesome gift bestowed upon us by the awesome love of an awesome God, and it must be received and cherished with love born of awesome respect. Surely if one thinks they can be "saved" by a profession of faith, only to go out and willfully murder, lie, cheat, steal . . . then lean on forgiveness without true repentence, then surely one's faith is false, because it was never a faith based on the simple premise of love God, love your neighbor, from which all of the law is hinged. Such faith is only vapor. Love is the adhesive that glues a true Christian to Christ. Love of Christ is the assurance of salvation. I believe it is a matter of heart. In the words of David: Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Such is the heart and eternal ceaseless prayer of one eternally saved. To such a heart there is no fear of condemnation.

I read your mind, Permie. LOL

Yes, OneLight, but the second paragraph is still true.