ENOCH2010

Christians that have died

I'm going with choice #1, I think he is wrong and the Bible is right. letteth means to hinder or restrain

I agree Oakwood

If the angles have a trumpet in one hand and a bowl of wrath in the other, I can see how the trumpets could be seen as containing Gods wrath.

What you described is what the Bible says is the great tribulation, only the bowls are filled with the wrath of God. That is the opinion of the Bible.

At least you acknowledge the wrong in your doctrine stating that the seals are included in the wrath of God, now when you admit the trumpets (even though they are going to be a terrible time) are not included in the wrath of God also, you will be stating the true word of God.

No the Bible says the bowls are filled with the wrath of God, it does not say that about the seals and trumpets. Saying the seals and trumpets contain the wrath of God is only your opinion, which is not in the Bible. My opinion is only the bowls contain the wrath of God, as the Bible plainly says. You shouldn't be adding your opinion to the Bible, claiming it says so.

No the Bible says the bowls are God's wrath.

Bopeep What does got questions say about having a packet for the left behind to read and find out what has happened

That is my point, that's another hole in the pre-trib doctrine. With a post-trib rapture we don't have to leave a packet with directions behind, we will be here still spreading the Truth.

not according to some of the pre-trib doctrine on here, I've read it here that the Holy Spirit is to be taken out with the pre-tribbers. With the Holy Spirit gone how will anybody be drawn to the Lord

If they're is a pre-trib rapture the Bibles that are left behind will have a lie in them. The verse that says "I will never leave thee" will have to be ripped out.

As in the days of Noah, it's happening again?

that looks to me like that is got questions opinion, not yours.

Angel

Marv I think Last Daze was talking about who the dragon is making war with. "who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" That group sounds like the church to me.

Nope I would say that sounds like a called out group that is killed because they are Christians, lets call them the church.

Marv do you disagree with the Bible? It says that a number no man can number WILL COME OUT OF the tribulation.

That is what I've been saying all along, the pre-trib rapture is a hope, it isn't a fact.

See the above for an example of the pre-trib doctrine adding to scripture and saying thus saith the Lord, when no such opinions are even hinted at in the Bible. Look at the above "second rapture" That clearly happens at His coming, so find the second coming in Rev 19 and the resurrection that is expected to happen with it in Rev 20. There is your rapture according to the Bible.

no Marv you would need to know the exact day and hour of when to start your calculations, and that day and hour isn't knowable

Because he is the first black prez. There I said it.

that is debatable

I don't know "when" the rapture happens, I only know what the Bible says. A real good guess would be at the first resurrection which the Bible says happens at the second coming.

They think grandma knows what she is talking about. The same as a lot of people sitting in church, think the preacher knows what he is talking about. What matters is what the Bible says, and it doesn't say anything about a pre-trib rapture that can't be applied to second coming, where it belongs.