ENOCH2010

The first resurrection of Revelation 20 is the first resurrection of the millenium...because it says so. There is a first and a last resurrection in Revelation 20. You appear to be stuck on the "first" word, not understanding that even the two witnesses are resurrected and raptured before the "first resurrection" takes place. By the way, when the 5th seal martyrs are given white robes, they are told more martyrs will occur before they are avenged. The only people dying as martyrs after the 5th seal are those who are beheaded in the 7th seal at the hands of the beast and then raised AT THE FIRST RESURRECTION! Those who are beheaded at the hands of the beast are the ONLY ones resurrected in the first resurrection of the millennium after Christ has already come on the clouds to destroy and bound the devil into an abyss....because it says so. SEE: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The view you describe is the pre-trib view,only you are trying to call it something else.You are adding a resurrection prior to the second comming of the Lord,so the church can stroll through a bed of roses as the end time events unfold,which isn't in the Bible. John would have wrote about a resurrection involving millions of people,just as he did about the other 2 resurrections,if they're was one.It's not in the Bible for a reason,and that reason is obvious, if people would put the second comming where it belongs (Rev 20) they're wouldn't be so much confussion.What is the reason John said the one's taking part in the first resurrection are blessed ?

The last trumpet is the last Jubilee (Trumpet). I recommend you search the scriptures to understand how God established the Jubilee. The last one is when the change comes. One thing you are missing about 1 Cor 15 is the fact that it says "WE". The "we" is not all mankind, it's the believers in Christ. According to Romans 8, we (the church) are awaiting the redemption of our bodies which is the moment when Christ appears, the dead IN CHRIST rise, we are all changed to an immortal form and caught up to God. 1 Cor 15: 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Wow, finally something I can agree with . I think the last trump is the last Jubilee trump too. I will have to look into what you say about the 'WE' in 1 Cor 15 a bit, since I had not 'read' it that way before.That may answer something for me. Still believe we are here for the duration of the great tribulation though. Just not buying that God would take all the believers (that know what is happening & have maturity in Him) off the earth, then save a bunch of people (apparently without the Holy Spirit, since He leaves with the church-?), & then these 'babes' are left to stand against the antichrist regime. Nope, not buying it! I could hug you right now! Yes the church is here for the entire great tribulation, as the tribulation is defined by Jesus in Matt 24. It has been going on since the desolation of Israel. It is the wrath, when God gives the devil 42 months, that we are not appointed to suffer. - because we have already chosen. I guess the best way to get my point across is to show you what I see from an overall perspective. What I mean is - there's a reason why the devil gets 42 months, why God uses the devil to destroy mystery babylon. The overall picture is that when the devil is cast down to the earth for his "short time", his final 42 months before he's cast lower still into an abyss, it's over and everyone alive at the time MUST choose - no more fence-sitting. They are forced to choose the devil's way or God's way. That's why the devil (and his beast/false prophet) are given power. It forces people to make a choice. The born of the Spirit church has already chosen. We already accept Jesus' sacrifice and are filled with the Spirit of God. We don't have to be forced to choose. [Our removal/departure is a sign for those who are still here, even a sign for Israel, a sign for people who still must make that final choice. And the resurrection and departure of the two witnesses shocks a lot of people who then realize God is right and the devil is a liar.] Some realize that it's all true and refuse to worship the devil, dying for that belief (but resurrected during the first resurrection of the millennium). Some believe the lies of the devil and his man of sin and take the mark/worship the beast (and then lose their life for eternity). The point is, by the time the final 3 1/2 years begins...it's all over and Jesus is about to take over AFTER everyone makes that final choice. (By the way, infants and children are gathered according to Joel 2. The final choice as to whom to worship for eternity is a decision that those who are accountable for their choices make.) Can anyone point me to a verse and chapter that speaks to a general resurrection of the saved, before the first resurrection spoken about in Rev 20.Not just an opinion of how things have to happen to make their particular belief seem feasible. Surely something as important as a massive resurrection involving millions of people,would at least get a little ink time. Hmmm...so what you're looking for is something as overt as is written about in Revelation 20's millennial resurrections...right? Or even as overt as Revelation 11's description of the resurrection and rapture of the two witnesses, right? You want a passage of scripture in Revelation that says the dead in Christ are raised up from their graves and given glorified bodies, then caught up in the air. Paul got his information from the Old Testament, specifically Psalm 50: 1-6 and Isaiah 26:19-21, Joel 2 and Jesus' words that are written in the New Testament...and he had what we have, the Holy Spirit reminding us of what is written/what Jesus said. He spoke about his understanding of it in Thessalonians, Corinthians, among other places. Based on what Paul told us and what Scripture says (outside of Revelation), we know as fact: 1. Jesus will appear in the air with the spirits of the dead in Christ (those who accept Jesus' sacrifice) 2. There will be a loud trumpet call 3. The dead bodies of the dead in Christ will rise up from their graves in an immortal form. 4. The living in Christ will be changed to an immortal form. 5. We will all be caught up together to the Lord in the air. 6. This event will occur prior to wrath. (OF GOD BEING POURED OUT) Do we agree with that so far, based on scripture? We can agree on this part now,after the addition. Revelation 20 tells us plainly when this resurrection takes place and what it is called,(the first resurrection).

The last trumpet is the last Jubilee (Trumpet). I recommend you search the scriptures to understand how God established the Jubilee. The last one is when the change comes. One thing you are missing about 1 Cor 15 is the fact that it says "WE". The "we" is not all mankind, it's the believers in Christ. According to Romans 8, we (the church) are awaiting the redemption of our bodies which is the moment when Christ appears, the dead IN CHRIST rise, we are all changed to an immortal form and caught up to God. 1 Cor 15: 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Wow, finally something I can agree with . I think the last trump is the last Jubilee trump too. I will have to look into what you say about the 'WE' in 1 Cor 15 a bit, since I had not 'read' it that way before.That may answer something for me. Still believe we are here for the duration of the great tribulation though. Just not buying that God would take all the believers (that know what is happening & have maturity in Him) off the earth, then save a bunch of people (apparently without the Holy Spirit, since He leaves with the church-?), & then these 'babes' are left to stand against the antichrist regime. Nope, not buying it! I could hug you right now! Yes the church is here for the entire great tribulation, as the tribulation is defined by Jesus in Matt 24. It has been going on since the desolation of Israel. It is the wrath, when God gives the devil 42 months, that we are not appointed to suffer. - because we have already chosen. I guess the best way to get my point across is to show you what I see from an overall perspective. What I mean is - there's a reason why the devil gets 42 months, why God uses the devil to destroy mystery babylon. The overall picture is that when the devil is cast down to the earth for his "short time", his final 42 months before he's cast lower still into an abyss, it's over and everyone alive at the time MUST choose - no more fence-sitting. They are forced to choose the devil's way or God's way. That's why the devil (and his beast/false prophet) are given power. It forces people to make a choice. The born of the Spirit church has already chosen. We already accept Jesus' sacrifice and are filled with the Spirit of God. We don't have to be forced to choose. [Our removal/departure is a sign for those who are still here, even a sign for Israel, a sign for people who still must make that final choice. And the resurrection and departure of the two witnesses shocks a lot of people who then realize God is right and the devil is a liar.] Some realize that it's all true and refuse to worship the devil, dying for that belief (but resurrected during the first resurrection of the millennium). Some believe the lies of the devil and his man of sin and take the mark/worship the beast (and then lose their life for eternity). The point is, by the time the final 3 1/2 years begins...it's all over and Jesus is about to take over AFTER everyone makes that final choice. (By the way, infants and children are gathered according to Joel 2. The final choice as to whom to worship for eternity is a decision that those who are accountable for their choices make.) Can anyone point me to a verse and chapter that speaks to a general resurrection of the saved, before the first resurrection spoken about in Rev 20.Not just an opinion of how things have to happen to make their particular belief seem feasible. Surely something as important as a massive resurrection involving millions of people,would at least get a little ink time.

I agree. He's just a puppet. I believe Reagan was the last real president we had, and they tried to kill him. Everyone since Reagan has been a puppet president. I just wonder who is writing the words on this current puppet's tele-prompter? Ponder that we really don't know for sure who Obama is and where he came from. I'm tempted to agrree that he's a puppet........ but I'd like to know more about his background. He's a Muslim,what more is needed to know. Is he really human? I thought somebody would have checked that by now.

I agree. He's just a puppet. I believe Reagan was the last real president we had, and they tried to kill him. Everyone since Reagan has been a puppet president. I just wonder who is writing the words on this current puppet's tele-prompter? Ponder that we really don't know for sure who Obama is and where he came from. I'm tempted to agrree that he's a puppet........ but I'd like to know more about his background. He's a Muslim,what more is needed to know.

One major thing were lacking today is the Temple for the man of sin to sit in and proclaim to be God.

Prove heaven is a mystical place--use scripture. The heavenly city described in Revelation that people expect to spend eternity in is clearly shown to be coming DOWN from the sky to be place on the Earth. Were not going there,it and the Lord are coming to us.

Very good. You get the golden prize. Now for a bonus, when do they occur?* And just to be technical, they are part of the same event. The rapture is the changing of live believers to resurrected bodies. *Hint: John 6 and John 12. Most people would call me post-trib I guess,because I believe the saved will be protected here on this earth during most of the end time events, not whisked away to some mystical place called heaven.

To be totally honest,I think the rapture and the second coming are the same event

Marv where did that come from

That is all true Roy,and when I hear the King of Kings repeat those statements,have you any idea how big of a smile I'm going to have on my face.

Thank you for your opinion. As a Messianic believer then, you understand that the Lord's Supper or the Eucharist is from the Pesach Seder and that baptism comes from purification in the mikvah; however, even when Christian believers acquire this information, they will often have a disjoint understanding without the underlying link "why!" Without understanding the purpose for a thing, the thing is just some meaningless ritual or liturgy that has no basis in reality! I've been learning (an unending process) that the purpose for any event in prophecy is KEY to understanding that event. For instance, consider the "Rapture": There WILL be a Rapture (Greek: "harpageesometha," from "harpazoo," meaning "shall be snatched away") as we see in 1 Thess. 4:17, but what is the PURPOSE for such an event? Most Christians who believe in a Rapture have not bothered to define its purpose or to put it in so many words, but they FEEL that its purpose is to take them away to "Heaven" safely and escape the Wrath of God poured out on the inhabitants of the earth. However, such escapism is NEVER taught in the Scriptures! Instead, the promises are... 2 Tim. 3:8-12 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. KJV and... 2 Cor. 1:3-7 3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; 4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation. KJV Thus, suffering and tribulation are not to be AVOIDED AND FEARED by believers but EMBRACED WITH COURAGE AND JOY as chances to share in the suffering of our Lord and those who have gone before us in the faith, looking forward in anticipation for the CONSOLATION AND RESCUE! Knowing, then, that the purpose for a Rapture is not to be found in escapism, what IS its purpose? Why will there be a Rapture? Well, if we go back to the verses that suggest a Rapture, we read this: 1 Thess. 4:13-17 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. KJV I believe that the purpose for the Rapture is simply "to meet the Lord in the air" and to remain "with the Lord" from then on. The passage, however, does NOT say where we will go from there! That's important to see, because many READ INTO this passage of Scripture WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, instead of accepting what it says. The next question to ask oneself is, "WHEN will this occur?" The answer lies in a few key phrases, such as "the coming of the Lord" and "in the clouds." The "coming of the Lord" is not just an arrival or a return; it is the Greek word "parousia" meaning the "being-near" of the Lord (or Master). This is the SAME WORD used in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, and 39, as well as 2 Thess. 2:1-10 and 2 Peter 3:4 and 12, all of which are recognized as that event called the "Second Coming." And while some have suggested that the event is really a sequence of two events separated by 7 years, that's not how these verses are worded nor would they like them so interpreted. However, recognizing that they ARE passages with the same word, and that Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all associate this event with the "clouds" at His coming, I see them as describing the EXACT SAME EVENT! Indeed, if we also add in the information given by the two witnesses in white at the Lord's ascension (Acts 1:9-11), the "clouds" being associated with His return are reinforced. Therefore, the purpose of the Rapture, I conclude, will be the same as the purpose of Yeshua` sending forth His messengers ("aggeloi" transliterated "angels") at His coming: To gather His elect to Him": Matt. 24:29-31 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. KJV Mark 13:24-27 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. KJV Luke 21:25-28 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. KJV As such, then, the purpose for the Rapture is that it is a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, so to speak, to get all of His elect to His location quickly, that location being in the air above Yisra'el and the Middle East before He makes His final descent. Do you see how the purpose for the Rapture helps to define WHEN the Rapture will be? It's not to "take us to Heaven"; it's to take us "THROUGH the heavens (the skies)" to where Yeshua` will be in the air just before He lands! Therefore, it will happen JUST BEFORE HE LANDS DURING HIS SECOND COMING! As far as not having to learn Hebrew, perhaps you're right, but when you consider that the Messiah's Kingdom when He becomes haMelekh Yisra'el as His Kingdom will be growing throughout the next 1000 years until He is Melekh haM'lakhiym (King of kings or Emperor of the World), and the following admission by Rav Sha'uwl (Paul): Acts 26:13-14 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. KJV I'd be willing to bet that the "lingua franca" of the Millennium will be or will become Hebrew. You can either learn it now and enjoy learning more about the Tanakh, or you can learn it later. Your choice. I've chosen to learn it now. Very well put Roy,I'm not a Messianic Jew yet,but I hope to be when the Lord comes back

I went with maybe Roy,only because I can't speak Hebrew,therefor I have to depend on a translator. I think I understand most prophecy,but knowing Hebrew and their customs would help me alot.

Alan, where did I say that everyone who lived through the tribulation went into the Millennium? The church has no part in the 70th week. Why is the church always trying to take away a time that rightly belongs to Israel and Israel alone? I could say more, but it would make a lot of people angry because there are many more parallels between Israel and the church than people want to admit. This sounds alot like replacement theology,I for one hope our Jewish brothers and sisters except me and my family into their family,I have no desire to replace them as God's chosen people.

A post- trib rapture may not make sense but that is what the Bible says will be. The Bible doesn't say anything about the first resurrection being broken up into the church group,and everybody else later. That's what is wrong with the pre-trib view,it seperates the church from Jewish people.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. Since you believe that the Church will have to go through the Tribulation, please show me where we, as believers, are ever subjected to God's wrath. You are correct God didn't appoint man to wrath.Man was appointed to walk with God and till the garden, until Adam and Eve sinned.Then man had to have a redeemer to pay our sin debt,that redeemer was Jesus Christ.If we accept Christ as our savior we are assured eternal life,but that has nothing to do with us going through the tribulation.

Hi Enoch The only ones described in Rev 20:4-5 are the ones who had their heads removed (beheaded for Christ), those verses mention no other group of believers. These described did not worship the beast or his image and did not receive his mark on their forehead or their hands. What then will happen to all the other believers over the past 2,000 years who were not beheaded for Christ or never saw the beast of Rev. We have gone over this before; Either one receives an incorruptible body and lives forever with Christ or one is sent into the Lake of fire at the Second Resurrection. There are only two Resurrections; One for the righteous, and the other for the unrighteous. One is either part of (included in) the First Resurrection (of which Christ was the first fruit) or one in part of (included in) the Second Resurrection. 1 Thes 4 states that the dead in Christ rise first, then those who are alive in Christ rise next and meet them in the air. Rev 20 leaves out all who are alive in Christ, and only mentions those who were beheaded for Christ. No place in Scripture does it say that All who are partakers of the First Resurrection are changed at the same time. The Bridegroom takes His Bride first and they go His Fathers House in Heaven. Those who were beheaded for Christ came to live and reigned with Christ for a thousand years; it does not mention this group ever going up to Heaven, but immediately reigning with Christ on Earth. Yet the Bride is take to His Fathers house. I go there to prepare a place for you. In Christ Montana Marv I understand what your saying Marv,BUT they're also is no mention of another mass resurrection in the Bible.I think all the dead in Christ rise at the first resurrection and are joined in the air by the believers that are alive and remain.I also think if they're was a special resurrection just for the believers (other than) the resurrection of Revelation 20,at least 1 of the writers in the Bible would have mentioned it. The place he went away to prepare is comming to earth with him,the New Jerusalem.

What resurrection of the dead in Christ is the "rapture" tied to ? Please show me in the Bible where the dead in Christ rise First then we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air,other than what is mentioned in Revelation 20.

I realize I am new to this forum so my opinion may or may not carry any weight. After 30 years of Bible study I can find no where in the Bible of another mass resurrection of believers,other than the one spoken of in Revelation 20,called the FIRST Resurrection. So,that resurrection can be no other but the "rapture" and we all can see it doesn't take place prior to the 70th week.

I agree, the believers will be on earth until the "Last Day" of earths history, going the the tribulation, dispensationalism, has several false resurrections of the believer, when in reality this is the resurrection, and gathering at the "Last Day" Matthew 24:29-30 KJV shows Gods judgement and the destruction of the heavens earth at his appearing, perfectly in agreement with 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV, dispensationalism has broken this truth up by giving a false teaching that there is a "day of Christ", and a "day of the Lord" teaching these are two seperate events, when in reality they are the same. I smile at the teaching in 2 Thessolonians 2:1-3 KJV and when the conditions must be met prior to the Lords return, "falling away" and "antichrist revealed" the very passage talking to the church states "Let no man deceive you by any means" this warning is being spoken to the believer in Matthew 24:15 KJV also and the very deception is being taught, the passage talking to me, states if I'm alive I will see the antichrist seated, they teach the "falling away" is the rapture, the restrainer is the church, that denies that the beliver will see the "antichrist" big "smile"! The teachings of dispensationalism, Newton, Darby, and Scofield, being the foundational roots, has a future rebuilt temple and sacrifical system going, and a physical christ returning to take the throne of David, who will this walk on christ be? "antichrist"! Zionism is preparing the world for the coming "antichrist" that will be Jewish/Hebrew in his decent, posing to be the returned messiah to Jews and Jesus to the apostate religious world, deception. All believers that sleep in Jesus Christ will "first" be resurrected at the "last day" and those alive will be gathered, and "second" the wicked will be resurrected to damnation , this is the same resurrection seen in Matt 24 KJV, Daniel 12:1-2 that will take place after the tribulation, on the "Last Day" prior to Gods wrath. The very chapter 1 Cor 15 KJV, that leads the teaching of the dispensational rapture, explains simply that time of the Lords coming and changing the believers will be the "Last Day", Vs 23 Christ the "firstfruits" first glorified body received after resurrection, Jesus Christ, then they that are Christs at his coming, "the believers at his coming", "then the end", the last enemy destroyed will be "DEATH", Vs 54 "death is swallowed up in victory" the end of the earth world, and beginning of the spiritual kingdom, "New Jerusalem". 1 Cor 15:23-28 KJV 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. The Lords Judgement will have taken place of death, the last enemy, at the believers receiving their glorified bodies, at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, this will be the "Last Day" 1 Cor 15:50-54 KJV 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The Lord will come as a "thief in the night" on the "Last Day" in firey judgement, destroying the heavens, earth, and the wicked! 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 KJV 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? The resurrection of believers will be on the "Last Day" as taught by Jesus Christ to his followers! John 11:23-24 KJV 23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 6:39-41 KJV 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 5:29 KJV And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version (KJV) 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The Judgement will have taken place, "death the last enemy", at the the Lords coming and believers receiving their glorified bodies, this will be the "Last Day" Revelation 20:13-15 KJV 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Truth7t7 Sorry, but that position is not right, either. You, too, are ignoring a few key, salient points that Yeshua` and Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" make: First, you have ignored the parable that Yeshua` gave in Luke 19: Luke 19:11-28 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. 28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem. KJV His Kingdom comes WITH HIM! It's not here, yet! Now, consider Matthew 25: Matt 25:31-46 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. KJV This passage is NOT said to be a parable at all! It is an account of what will actually happen when Yeshua haMashiach returns! Have you ever noticed that He is always called "the Messiah," "the Christ?" The term is from the Hebrew word "Mashiach," which means "anointed one." There were three (or four, depending on your point of view) positions for which a person was "anointed": He may be anointed as priest, prophet, or king (and a judge through being king). Seldom was Yeshua` EVER referred to as being "King," and most of those were in PROPHECY! To anoint someone was to pour a special oil (Exodus 30:22-33) upon that person's head and RUB it in to the person's hair and scalp. In fact, the term, although said to mean "anoint," literally means to "rub" or to "paint" a person with that oil. It was a process that proved that the person was especially selected by God for that position. Isn't it interesting that He is never said to be reigning now but will be reigning in the future? Matthew 25 will be fulfilled literally when Yeshua` returns at His second Advent. Psalm 2 has never been fulfilled, yet. I'm going to quote it with punctuation for clarity: Psalm 2:1-12 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, 3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us." 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: <the Lord hath said unto me, 'Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'> 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." KJV There are a series of nested quotes within verses 6 through 12: God the Father is speaking in verses 6 and 7a. Then in verse 7b, Yeshua`, God's Son is doing the talking; however, part of the Son's speech includes yet another nested quote of God the Father within the decree from 7c through verse 9. The rest of the passage, from verses 10 through 12, are God the Father speaking at the same level as in verses 6 and 7a. So, God the Father - YHVH - is telling this counsel of kings (a UN meeting) to obey His Son or else! This passage has NEVER been fulfilled, yet, but as all other Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled during Yeshua`s first Advent literally, so this passage will be fulfilled literally, as well! Yeshua` will yet literally reign over the Gentile nations of the earth with a "rod (sceptre) of iron." This is the Kingdom that you misinterpreted in 1 Corinthians 15 and misrepresented in Revelation 20. Make no mistake, either. He doesn't "rule and reign for a thousand years" (as some have claimed). The Millennium is just the BEGINNING 1000 years of His reign (which also happens to be the last 1000 years of this present earth and sky)! Here's the REAL understanding of these passages: 1 Cor. 15:12-28 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. KJV This context of this chapter (and we could have quoted the whole chapter, by the way) is the RESURRECTION! Rav Sha'uwl "Paulos" first argues for the truth of the resurrection, and then he lists when they will occur: 0) the firstfruits - Yeshua` the Messiah, 1) they who are the Messiah's AT HIS SECOND COMING, and then 2) at the End (of the Age), which is identified by a) the Messiah delivering up the Kingdom to God the Father, when b) he has put all things under Himself. The key is verse 25: "For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet." Thus, besides the Firstfruits of the Messiah Himself, there are two resurrections: 1) the resurrection of the justified at His Second Advent, and 2) the general resurrection after the first 1000 years of His reign at the End of the Age prior to the Great White Throne Judgment, the sentencing to the Lake of Fire and Sulphur, and the re-Creation of the earth and sky into the New Earth and the New Sky of Revelation 21:1. Revelation 20:1-21:1 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. KJV The last sentence of verse 5 refers to verses 4 and 6, not to the first part of verse 5. Thus, the first resurrection occurs BEFORE the 1000 years, but the second resurrection occurs AFTER the 1000 years in verse 13. The destruction of Death is found in verse 14; this parallels 1 Corinthians 15:26 as the last enemy that is subdued by the Messiah who will be reigning during those 1000 years. Death is not defeated at the first resurrection when we receive our new bodies, for death will still be present during the 1000 years (although not for us)! OT prophecies tell us that, particularly Isaiah 60-66, but the Messiah also uses death to His advantage during the Millennium, as seen in Psalm 2:12 above! Contrary to popular opinion, the Scriptures tell us that the Millennium, the first 1000 years of the Messiah's reign as Isra'el's King and then as King of Kings - or World Emperor - as more and more peoples choose to be tributary to the Messiah's Kingdom, will NOT be a "time of world peace!" There will only be peace WITHIN His Kingdom, until such time as His Kingdom fills the earth. He will FORCE other nations of the earth to "tow the line!" It's not right to just cram everything into a single event - the Second Coming - and say it's all over! There's more time yet to occur in this second earth and second sky before the third earth and third sky begin (2 Cor. 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:3-13). Now, WILL Christians be here during the Great Tribulation? Sure we will! We have no guarantee that we will be yanked out of this world ahead of time! To the contrary, the purpose of the Rapture (harpazo) is NOT to avoid God's Wrath but is to collect us quickly as an army for Yeshua`s descent into the Middle East at His Second Coming. It's a form of "mass transit system!" Furthermore, while we receive our new bodies "in the twinkling of an eye," the actual collection process will take some time! In the Messiah's love, Roy Thanks for the post on your blog Roy.