*Zion*

Hi guys. First off, I just want to say, I'm not looking for arguments, just some sound discussion and exchange of ideas to try and provide some clarity on this. Here goes... 2 Samuel 24 David’s Census of Israel and Judah 24 Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” 2 So the king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, “Now go throughout all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and count the people, that I may know the number of the people.” 3 And Joab said to the king, “Now may the Lord your God add to the people a hundred times more than there are, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king desire this thing?” 4 Nevertheless the king’s word prevailed against Joab and against the captains of the army. Therefore Joab and the captains of the army went out from the presence of the king to count the people of Israel. 5 And they crossed over the Jordan and camped in Aroer, on the right side of the town which is in the midst of the ravine of Gad, and toward Jazer. 6 Then they came to Gilead and to the land of Tahtim Hodshi; they came to Dan Jaan and around to Sidon; 7 and they came to the stronghold of Tyre and to all the cities of the Hivites and the Canaanites. Then they went out to South Judah as far as Beersheba. 8 So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. 9 Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men. The Judgment on David’s Sin 10 And David’s heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the Lord, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly.” 11 Now when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying, 12 “Go and tell David, ‘Thus says the Lord: “I offer you three things; choose one of them for yourself, that I may do it to you.”’” 13 So Gad came to David and told him; and he said to him, “Shall seven[a] years of famine come to you in your land? Or shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days’ plague in your land? Now consider and see what answer I should take back to Him who sent me.” 14 And David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Please let us fall into the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of man.” 15 So the Lord sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died. 16 And when the angel[b] stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, “It is enough; now restrain your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was by the threshing floor of Araunah[c] the Jebusite. 17 Then David spoke to the Lord when he saw the angel who was striking the people, and said, “Surely I have sinned, and I have done wickedly; but these sheep, what have they done? Let Your hand, I pray, be against me and against my father’s house.” The Altar on the Threshing Floor 18 And Gad came that day to David and said to him, “Go up, erect an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.” 19 So David, according to the word of Gad, went up as the Lord commanded. 20 Now Araunah looked, and saw the king and his servants coming toward him. So Araunah went out and bowed before the king with his face to the ground. 21 Then Araunah said, “Why has my lord the king come to his servant?” And David said, “To buy the threshing floor from you, to build an altar to the Lord, that the plague may be withdrawn from the people.” 22 Now Araunah said to David, “Let my lord the king take and offer up whatever seems good to him. Look, here are oxen for burnt sacrifice, and threshing implements and the yokes of the oxen for wood. 23 All these, O king, Araunah has given to the king.” And Araunah said to the king, “May the Lord your God accept you.” 24 Then the king said to Araunah, “No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the Lord my God with that which costs me nothing.” So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. 25 And David built there an altar to the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the Lord heeded the prayers for the land, and the plague was withdrawn from Israel. Now, the same story is told again in 1 Chronicles 21, but it begins like this: 1 Chronicles 21 The Census of Israel and Judah 1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 2 So David said to Joab and to the leaders of the people, “Go, number Israel from Beersheba to Dan, and bring the number of them to me that I may know it. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Or not? Was it satan's or God's instigation? Was it David's fault? And what was the mistake here? Pride? Doubt in God? Ignorance? What is going on here?!!! I seek to understand and learn. Blessings!

Hi Gary, once again, I am impressed by your humble attitude - so rare to find these days. Rub some of the off on me will you? Seriously, I admire that quality a lot. We live in a world where everyone knows everything, man. Good to know someone out there knows they can be wrong sometimes, even though they are right many other times. I have a shocker for you : I think you're right. And wrong too... History repeats itself, yes? That's because God has sent His Word forth and it shall not return unto Him void but will accomplish that which it was sent for (Isaiah 55v10-11) He will keep fulfilling His Word until the final, ultimate fulfillment at the end of days. So yes, what you think might happen might happen, and it might hurt some people. But that doesn't mean that it's the complete and ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy. That's why people all thought that Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Obama were the anti-christ. are they anti-christian? Sure. Are they the unltimate anti-christ? remains to be seen, when all prophecy shall be sealed up in its culmination. God bless you, Gary. May He add divine wisdom and truth to your humility and love. I pray that He gives you rest in His peace. He is the Prince of Peace, the Everlasting Father with everlasting arms to comfort us even in great tribulation and danger. I don't want people to get hurt or die, but I sure am glad that Jesus is coming soon!

Guys, I'm not a moderator, I'm still very new here, but OneLight, one of the moderators, made a post in the General Discussion section that I think we should all read, and re-read if necessary. It's entitled A word from this ministry so even though we know OneLight feels very strongly about what he's saying, we also know his view is reflected by the whole ministry of WCF - hence, a word from this ministry. Personally, I'm surprised we even need it. It's one thing to express one's opinion freely, and totally another to present one's opinion as cold hard fact. Let's face it, people have been interpreting the Word of God differently since it was first written. Take Moses' tablets of stone on which was etched the 10 commandments. For him, God's word was life. It is life. He didn't need food or drink for 40 days and nights while he was receiving them. He did that twice. But for the rest of the people, the law in those commandments exposed their sin, which they didn't repent of, and eventually died in. That whole generation, save Joshua and Caleb. They interpreted God's Word as judgement. And you know what? Both views were entirely correct! We need revelation to deal with God's Word, and the deeper we get into it, the more wonders it will reveal. The same small portion of God's Word will mean healing to one, faith to another, judgement still to another, mercy and grace to yet another. So let's stop using it as a tool to point the finger at each other in condemnation - that's not just judgement - before we do some serious damage. We don't want to scare off the very people we're welcoming and we don't need to hurt one another's feeling just for the sake of being right. Not a good testimony. We haven't seen each other face to face, but if we really are who we say we are in Christ, then we know that we are all brothers and sisters here. If that's so, we should care about not hurting each other. Just speaking the truth, right? Then speak the truth in love, and show that you're doing it out of love. We hijack threads by turning them into our own personal arguments. Not very fair on poor SilviaWang who started this thread, and who wanted learn something about Melchizedek, is it? I was really enjoying considering what everybody thought, until another blame game erupted again. By the way, considering someone's point of view even if we don't agree with it is not a weakness. It's a strength. We are not always going to be right. Not 100% of the time, not 99% of the time, not even 80%. How ever clever we think we are, we're not. God's the clever one. The best we can do on our own is 50/50. If we want to be right we need to totally agree with God's Word. All of it. Do I think I'm right to post this? I don't know, but I do know that I'm tired of this arguing. This isn't anyone's idea of a healthy debate, and nobody should be expected to just take it. But don't worry about proving me wrong. If the moderators don't like my post, they'll delete it or send me a message or ban me or something. If I have done something unfair here, then your best bet is to complain to them, not to me. I'll be the one most likely to stand up for myself, so attacking me directly wouldn't really be hitting me where it hurts, concerning my being here at WCF. And if I wanted to be banned, I wouldn't care so much as to take the time to type out this post. Read OneLight's post. That all said, can we please get back to the subject at hand? It was really getting interesting. God bless you all. I really mean that. Take it anyway you want, but I'm giving it as a real God bless you.

Thanks Fresnoe Joe, I appreciate it! I did try, honestly, but nothing came up! What do you think of the song?

I know some stuff has been said about Israel Houghton, but that doesn't take away the scriptural basis of truth in this song. It's a praise song, and that's exactly what it does: praises the Lord! Declares His praises! Emphatically so! As He deserves, although He deserves much more than we could ever give! Hallelujah!!!

Yep, she needs a lot of strength and a lot of grace from God. It's easier said than done. everything still seems to be improving, but I don't think they're out of the woods yet with this. Still praying.

Made like, not is. Blessings.

So, back to the question at hand... Melchizedek was or is a king and priest of God most high, without genealogy but who does have an order: Hebrews 7:1-3 7 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. I believe he's just a totally unique being made by God to point us to God, that is Jesus Christ. That may be why he's not mentioned as much as Jesus, but just enough to let us know he does have a role in God's will and purposes. Blessings.

i wasn't attacking, i was asking a question for my own clarification.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: God bless you!!!

so basically the article's assuming that the rapture is pre-trib...

You're thinking of "Nebraska Man". I Think Originally He Was From New York City Get a rope. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

LOVE it! Praise God, this song just ministers from the get go! Very impacting, thank you for sharing

Love the message! So upbeat in this dreary world... that's what the Good News is!

Sorry, ayin jade. It's the truth. God bless you.

If only he could see the real problem is unrepented sin. It's not a but population growth or space or food, it's about selfishness and greed. the Rich own all the space and food and get richer, and the poor are crammed into the dirt slums and and get poorer. Stop the greed, stop the problem. But who's going to listen to that, let alone put it into practice, apart from the practising, repentant Christian - follower of CHRIST?

I feel sorry for people who challenge God by playing 'god'. they bring it all upon themselves...

:thumbsup: God will use us as long as we don't get in His way. Speak when/how He directs. It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, not ours. Rely on Him, He will do what He promised to do!

hi kim, I agree! As for the current situation, things are on the improve, but it will take time to see if it's love or just admission of guilt that he's showing her. She seems hopeful though. Will keep praying.

it's scary: I have two young ones and i'd like to have at least one more. I'm not the perfect parent, but my older son knows the Name of Jesus, prays for his food and before going to sleep, and says he loves Jesus. does he understand? maybe, maybe not, but God is with him and watching over him and us all. If it weren't for God, I shudder to think where/how we'd be.

i know what that's like. you already have your testimony though - prayer works and so does praise! God delights in your faith in Him, and He will reward you for it - check out Genesis 15v1. God bless you, worshiper! glad He is ab le to comfort you in this way

Wow, that's amazing. I pray God gives her the same strength He's given you. God bless you!

Ok, let me clarify: by walking away, I didn't mean divorce or separation, I know it's not biblical; I simply meant just walking away from the fights and not paying him much attention. It's what I would be tempted to do, but I think she needs to keep loving/sacrificing in the face of his selfishness, as gdemoss has also said. As for the counseling, she is quite private about her life and it's not something she would consider. It's been suggested before. That may be a failing on her part, but we all handle our lives differently. I will just continue to pray. After all, things do seem to be on the mend.

Thanks gdemoss, your words go right to it. However, asking her to sacrifice even more of herself than she already has is like poking a stick at a beehive. I don't really want to do it! She's seen your post, and all she did was sigh and shake her head. I think she appreciates what I'm doing, but it's very hard for her to accept. All I want to do is help. She knows that if it would help for me to tell her to walk away then I would do it. (I have been tempted to suggest it once or twice, seeing everything he's been putting her through. He is very selfish/self-involved.) On the other hand, any little gesture her husband makes she can't trust to be the real thing because he's built up her hopes only to let her down so many times before, she really wonders about her committing/sacrificing herself fully yet again. I pray that she has the strength to pray the prayers you've being praying for yourself. Having said all of that, things do seem to be going much better between them now. She's still not fully convinced, but she's willing to see where it will go. She still loves him. A lot. Thanks for the prayers, God bless you.

as it should be with all of us! :thumbsup: