another_poster

Pastors are spiritual shepherds who ideally feed the flock with spiritual milk and meat. I say *ideally* because frequently today's pastors are entertainers and showmen, and rarely will they spend time one-on-one with each and every member of the flock attending to their individual needs (see Ezekiel 34:1-10 for their job description). That is why churches need a plurality of elders. The important thing to note (which generally escapes Christians) is that the SPIRITUAL GIFT is that of pastor or shepherd (Eph 4:11), but the OFFICE is that of elder/bishop. That is why Paul always speaks of elders when addressing the office, and these men should have the spiritual gifts of shepherding, preaching, and teaching, as well as taking oversight of the flock. At the same time, there is another spiritual gift, which is that of teaching, and yet another which is that of evangelism. For example, Billy Graham was an evangelist, but not really a teacher, nor did he consider himself a pastor. In the OT a entire tribe was assigned to that role. Yet we so often expect one person to do everything. Thankfully many are getting away from that. So many got burned out because of that. There was always supposed to be a team that did these things. Preachers were different to elders in NT times.

If you think nothing good can come out of discussing this issue I guess I am somewhat perplexed as to why you are participating in this thread Shiloh. If you don't like what I wanted to discuss or think it can serve no purpose by all means you are free to not participate in this discussion at all. I mean why in the world would you participate in a discussion you view as utterly useless? Carlos Why did you ask for discussion when you clearly don't want discussion. An answer was given and you don't like the answer. The answer was repeated and now you decide they shouldn't be involved in the discussion. Shiloh and I disagree on many things but I can easily see the point Shiloh is making. Perhaps you need to take more time to read carefully what is being said. Maybe in your individual church but certainly not in mine or the one I attended before that or the one before that. yet you don't explain why it has had an impact and made a difference. There are plenty of other issues I can see where things have been twisted and perverted yet you choose to try and make a big issue out of nothing. Perhaps if you actually explained yourself as several people have asked and after several people have said they can't see the point instead of just telling them they are wrong and don't understand then people would see the value. You however have chosen not to take the path of helping fellow believers understand but instead move towards condemnation. Although reading a bit further on I see that you have said you will come back and actually explain yourself finally.

I think the simplest reason is they thought that was the most accurate. I think it really is that simple. With every translation they really do try to be as faithful as possible. Fact is people don't go out there to deceive. We are only human and we are not perfect and make mistakes. What are the best documents to use when translating? Well once again that is matter of opinion and I would go as far to say it is sinning if we condemn those who have done their best as being ungodly or inspired by demons or anything like that. Unless we can judge their motives we really need to assume they have done what they think is right.

Won't put yourself out for us huh.... That's right. Didn't you get my memo saying it's all about me!!

ah ok I didn't click on individual stuff. Scrolled up & down the page and nothing looked obvious. Certainly not going to go through questions again just to read that though!

I agree with Butero (don't collapse in shock!) but all that kind of information is easily gathered already. You don't need to go to those sites. Having been married to a person who works in data security I have learnt just how unsecure things are and how much info is gathered. Best stay off the internet if you don't like that thought.

Tjere really wasn't that much there when I didn't give an email. They got the basic personality right but realistically that is not hard. Then the other graphs just showed the balance from the ansers you gave. There was no explanation of anything on mine

I'm guessing you have to give an email address to be able to see how accurate it is. Of course it got the basic type right but that is not a huge challenge but it is the detail that may be wrong.

Oh yes.Or several people want to get the last word in.A thread can go forever and ever. Nah I don'tt have to get the last word in...oh look I have the last post!

I have thought about that.Then they often want more details about you...your e-mail address etc. I try to compartmentalise my life as much as possible. I have over ten different email addressess. Remembering which password goes with which can be confusing. What this means is that it is very easy to scrap an email address and start again. I forgot my email address for itunes and couldn't log on for a little while. I couldn't call to ask for it as i couldn't remember what name I gave them or what date of birth I gave them. Luckily I found the information. Of course if I am legally obligated to then I give correct information.

The problem with many of these tests is that they use some free online one with no trained person to check results. In some of them you can give answers that you know they are looking for. Of course if they have a trained person looking at the test you will most likely be caught out. In hiring people myself I have ripped up resumes and thrown them straight in the bin because the person clearly only wants a job until they can achieve their dream and sorry but I want a person who will last for a few years at least not six months. I would try and get an idea of their personality because lets be honest the majority of jobs anyone can do so it is who has the best attitude and will therefore be a good worker.

I have seen people spend half an hour arguing the exact same thing because they didn't realise. Essentially they had different definitions for a particular bit of christian jargon which caused the problem. When I suggested they were arguing the same thing I was very quickly told I was wrong. Half an hour later they came to the truth which is that they agreed with each other. So how do you propose to stop them from only speaking truth? Sorry but it isn't always easy to discern.

I find this interesting but strange. Obviously she has a right to her reactions that way, but I am absolutely certain the loss of a child (for instance, God forbid) would be orders of magnitude more painful than the infidelity of a spouse for me. Obviously losing a brother as this woman did is awful but I think the hurt from the spouse comes from the fact that they are supposed to love you and care for you. It is that betrayal that causes the pain. People don't expect much of the Nazis. It is the emotional pain that tends to hurt most I find.

The most difficult thing is forgiving myself. I've done some things i'm not proud of and will probably never share. I am confident that while I am still in the process I will eventually fully forgive my ex wife. It can be hard when I look at the awful accomodation my son and I are in. I have had civil conversations with her which at one point in time would not have been possible. Today here in Oz is mothers day and for the first time I was pleased that at church they honoured all the women and prayed for them. Last year some time I was happy to hear about a couple getting engaged when a couple of years before that my response was I hope you break up and become as miserable as me. There are several different things that once caused very different responses including hatred that simply are not there now. So I am reminded that I am being healed and with that forgiving more. I don't think it is a case of my past forgiving of my wife being insincere but rather God just geting me to deal with it bit by bit. Let us not give up hope and remember that God is making us into new creation.

A friend of mine got the bible study group he led to write their testimonies without using any christian lingo. Everyone struggled. Then we wonder why people struggle tto understand us! Or people take words that have a certain definition and then use them with a completely different definition. No better example of this than literal. Christians love to use it but don't actually mean it.

The lack of integrity in the article really bothers me. Why are they focusing on the mosque visit when they are visiting a jewish synagogue and a christian church as well. Can they be certain that all the students are christian? If not then why is Boyles not getting upset at that? I doubt they can be muslim, jewish & christian at the same time after all.

I know what you mean mechanic. I have sat in a church with a couple of hundred people and never felt more alone in my life. We need to take the time to find out how we can meet people where they are. Today at church I stepped out to go to the toilet. On the way back I saw a person preparing morning tea. I may have missed the greatest sermon in the world for all I know but I'm willing to bet we were both more encouraged than if I had walked back into main room. I once called a minister after hearing about death of a friend. On its own it was not overwhelming but add in everything else that was happening at the time and it was almost the last day of my life. He sounded eager to get off the phone!

Yes you are correct. Being still and knowing he is God is definitely unbiblical! I really think people are being too judgmental here. Can it be used for wrong? Yes. Can it lead you away from God? Yes. Will it always? No. Will other things like a church service do the same? Yes. Or a preacher? Yes. I noticed we don't tend to say stay away from anyone giving a sermon when that can be just as bad. Why the double standards? Why is this so wrong? (yes that question is directed to everyone). While I had no idea this was a thing I have used it and found it helpful. I rush around so much that I don't always take the time to listen to God. Just sitting quickly rushing through a prayer really doesn't do much. For me I find it helpful to listen to some music first and then sit in silence. Prayer is often called having a conversation with God yet the way most people do it is totally one sided conversation. That is not giving any respect to God. What did Jesus do in the time he spent in the wilderness just before his temptations. Essentially contemplative prayer. Like anything else it can be taken too far and turned into a bad thing but that is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think we are to read that literally as receiving actual beating. What it appears to be saying is that a person who has been taught right from wrong will be judged more harshly than a person who was not taught. In other words those with greater knowledge have greater expectations. Same as teachers will be judged more harshly because of their position of influence.

Although we need to be careful to not suggest that once we make a decision thats all we have to do. When we are saved we must do good works that were prepared for us to do. Those works obviously do not save but they indicate our faith is genuine. If we just make a decision then spend the next forty years being greedy and ignoring God then we will not be saved. Sadly because the church got caught up in works and selling forgiveness people are so frightened to speak the truth in case people think they are preaching salvation by works that many have forgotten the truth.

What,where is that Written????God most certainly cares what we believe in... Our Salvation by Gods Grace is given us by what we believe in,,,,,our Faith in the knowledge of Who Jesus IS............. "As long as you love your neighbor you are being good"...................Where do they come up with this stuff?So as long as I love my neighbor I can rob a convenience store or cheat the IRS? Huh? Uhh,I guess this is extreme liberal thinking With love-in Christ,Kwik It is very clear that the article is being critical of these views and liberals in general. In regards to beliefs most christian beliefs do not matter. As long as you believe in the essentials which are very few in number then no problem. There is nothing in the bible that says we will not get to heaven if our doctrine is not 100% correct. I doubt the thief on the cross had all correct doctrine. Christians love to make things complicated when it is not that difficult.

Perhaps someone should write a version of this for what they reckon the author believes. Since the author obviously believes judgmentalism is far more important than anything else perhaps they could say the author would much rather stone the woman caught in adultery rather than this liberal view of letting her live while rebuking her. In short the author and others in this thread should not talk about what they do not know. Liberals do tend to be pro-welfare because guess what! The bible is pro-welfare. I see many fundamentalists whose lives do not in any way shape or form reflect their beliefs. On judgement day they are going to be called goats. Often people who call themselves fundamentalists love to quote one verse about how you should work or don't sdeserve to eat and then think that cancels out every other verse that speaks about helping those in need. Why can we not actually read what the bible says and go with that rather than going to extremes? I don't tend to go in for labels but I am far closer to the democrats than republicans. Why? Because I simply can't find justification in the bible for forcing my beliefs on others. So while I agree with the bible that homosexuality is sinful I do not oppose gay marriage being legalised. Economically I can not justify supporting corporations treating employees like dirt and disposable assets and justifying it by claiming a trickle down economics theory which has been proven not to work. I will not condemn someone for making a difficult decision. I will encourage people to look at alternatives but I will not condemn them for making a choice I disagree with. I will leave the judging of non-christians to God like the bible says. Love is the most important thing. So many christians remove love from christianity.

I wonder if Jesus was ever arrested? Oh wait nevermind! Look I really do understand what people are saying. In this case having that permit would have avoided this ever becoming a news story. So I really don't see this as an attack on christian rights. Are they making it more expensive to do? Yes. More hassle? Yes. Stopping it? No. Discouraging people from doing this? Yeah possibly. Not exactly sure what you mean by cookout. This whole translating from english to english can be difficult at times! There is a clear difference between friends getting together even if unplanned and giving food to strangers. With people being happy to sue any authority they can for anything yeah I can understand why they introduce these permits. As I said some common sense would have been good in this situation. This person already has a food license which while restricted to the premises is designed to stop her from selling food on the street. Since she is giving away food then clearly she is not breaking the spirit of the law.

So not fined for feeding homeless but rather not having a particular permit. Lets try and be factual about this. Of course a bit of common sense would work here if the authorities saw what was being done and that it is a good thing and let it go.

Describing poverty is nowhere near the same thing as understanding. Omegaman you demonstrate an issue that you just don't understand. It really should not be a surprise in the slightest that some have reacted the way they have. It is easy to see that plenty of people are condeming poor people. Especially within the church. So if you didn't realise people would assume your motives are what we see all the time then there is a disconnect somewhere. Your comment that the money is "stolen" from people demonstrates greed if one is honest. It shows resentment. On the whole a lack of compassion. Being critical of people for owning a colour TV shows a disconnect from reality. They are not expensive. As a one of purchase over time it can provide a cheap source of entertainment. Perhaps things are different in the US but here it is basically impossible to buy a black & white. They are not that expensive. A car well i know without a car I would not have gotten the job I did and without that job I would not have got the wonderful job I have now. Same with mobile phones. You simply must have a mobile phone when it comes to job hunting these days. In this age where people expect instant responses if you do not answer that call then often they will just call the next person on the list because for any job there are several people suitable. Also just because things have fallen in place for others don't assume it works that way for everyone. I worked in a place where using a performance based pay review system I got the highest pay rise of anyone in the four departments my manager was responsible for three years in a row. That was around 30 people. Yet i could not get a promotion because apparently I could not apply myself. I made sacrifices by being the one to stay back when something came up and someone had to stay back. How did they decide I could not apply myself? I didn't have a uni degree. You could have had a arts degree in ancient history and that would have been good enough for this financial company. In other words the degree did not need to be related to the work. Likewise I find the get a education comment interesting. My mum never did well in studies. Some of her siblings did very well. Yet not one single one of them can defeat her in a debate with logic. People also look at information without realising the whole picture. People are fond of quoting how many times peoples payments were cut off in one year. What they don't realise is why payments can be cut off. One person was cut off because she supposedly did not turn up to job hunting. Never mind that we all saw her there. Never mind that she had signed in. Never mind that she had used her unique log in code on the computers. The employment consultant who sat at the opposite end of the office and never came near the room. The employment consultant said "Well I didn't see you". The payments were started again but what it did mean is that because she lost the payments for a few days even though not justified she was unable to access money on financial hardship grounds from her own savings. I had my payment cut because while on the way to job hunting I got a phone call asking me to attend a job interview that day. So I went home to get changed into my job interview clothes. I called the employment agency to let them know. They reported that I failed to attend an appointment because I did not email them. Well I didn't have internet access at home so couldn't plus I had to rush to get to the train if I was going to make the job interview. So while people are quoting figures that are correct they do not tell the whole story. Brings me to another point about one of your responses saying nobody disputed the truth. Well lets look at what Jesus did in a situation. The woman caught in adultery. Jesus was told the law said she should be stoned to death. That was 100% correct so did Jesus say Yep go ahead and stone her? No he didn't despite that being correct. Instead he demonstrated compassion and then told the woman after others had left to go and sin no more. Just because you have something right does not mean it is the right thing to do. Be a Mary instead of a Martha and choose what is better. It is also interesting that you say not mentioning compassion means nothing because words are cheap yet you have taken the time to write all this. Surely you could have put a couple of lines in there. I