VCO

No, there is a small Bible Belts in Northern CA. and Southern Oregon. Lots of BIBLE CHURCHES there. I used to go to Ft. Dick Bible Church, when I was in the Prison Ministry out there.

I prefer to think of it as the other end of the same Bible Belt.

It is Brother, the Lord put in on my hard to move west in the 80's, and I knew not why. It turned out He wanted me to start, a prison ministry in a new super-max prison that was just being build out there on the coast. Now you have to understand, I did not know the first thing about starting a Prison Ministry, but I figured HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT IT, so I trusted HIM to give me guidance through it all. The VCO, stands for Volunteer Chaplain Orville. I left the Prison Ministry with 8 Volunteers, most I had trained personally, to take my place. I am retired now, but what an experience. After my wife passed away, I moved back to Nebraska, where I have some family, and it is WAY CHEAPER to live here, than in California. I miss the Ocean though. I turned 70 in February, oh my, now I fell like I am older than dirt. I got aches and pains, where I did not know they were possible. If I bend to pick up something on the ground, it takes me at least 4 times longer to get back up. Now you know what you have to look forward to.

Good point, I should not have phased it that way, but here is some Food for Thought. The Holy Spirit had NO PROBLEM SAVING PEOPLE on earth without indwelling them, and being heaven, too, in the Old Testament times. So WHY do you think he cannot do it During the Tribulation. HE ENTERED OUR HEARTS, to become a COMFORTER. EVERYTHING ELSE, HE CAN DO WHILE BEING outside our body, and IN HEAVEN, too. Because HE is OMNIPRESENT, he is in both places at the SAME TIME technically, but the Promise He will be in YOU and will NEVER LEAVE YOU, seems to be only for the New Testament ASSEMBLY. Why did I phrase that ASSEMBLY? Technically CHURCH IS NOT IN THE BIBLE at all. When JESUS SAID: Matthew 16:18 (YLT) 18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; Look up the word ekklēsia and You will find the it means ASSEMBLY. CHURCH is man's word for it, not what JESUS SAID or the Apostles said. John 14:16 (KJV) 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; SO WHAT DOES GOD MEAN BY FOREVER? ? ? I would say, for Eternity. AND HE WILL BE AT THE WEDDING IN HEAVEN. Another point, now that I mentioned Mat. 16:18: So the people HE was talking to in this verse were the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY: John 10:16 (ASV) 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. So THIS FOLD, is the last of the Old Testament ASSEMBLY, because the New Testament ASSEMBLY, did not begin until the Day of Pentecost after the Ascension. The OTHER SHEEP is us. And we will become ONE FLOCK AT THE RAPTURE.

Thanks for your input, I some of it I did not know before. THANKS. My Favorite Translation is Holman's Christian Standard Bible (HCSB), published in 2004. The reason is their Translation Team did not mess with a lot of the word Yahweh, the way the other Translations did. Here is an example: Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB) 10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me. 11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me. I use that Scripture a LOT to prove the DEITY of CHRIST, and back it up using: Luke 2:11-12 (HCSB) 11 Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. 12 This will be the sign for you: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in cloth and lying in a feeding trough.” The HCSB is FREE, and some older versions like KJV, ASV, etc., with the FREE WORDsearch Starter edition with their Software. They have over 200 free books too. Not Greedy at all, I would say, and have very good sales. (https://www.wordsearchbible.com/apps/wordsearch-starter)

You do know that the KJV was not an actual Translation? It was a Paraphrase, where they compared at least 5 older English Translations, and updated the Language to where King James was comfortable with it. They said so in the Original 1611 Preface, that they DID NOT INTEND TO MAKE A NEW TRANSLATION, but to revise older translations. Here are two sites that point out that fact that the original Translation TEAM, did not intend to make a New Translation, (in the Green type below) but to revise older versions (top line) to update the languages and correct some know errors. That is a Paraphrase, and NOT A TRANSLATION. You have put the KJV way to high on the pedestal. The PREFACE was Re-written, and a lot of KJV ONLY people, do not even know the ORIGINAL 1611 PREFACE, even Exists. (https://library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the) (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm) ORIGINAL 1611 KJV PREFACE The Translators To The Reader Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . . . . . But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . . . . . Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . . . . . (and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . . . . . There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . . . . . And to the same effect say wee, that we are so farre off from condemning any of their labours that traveiled before us in this kinde, either in this land or beyond sea, either in King Henries time, or King Edwards (if there were any translation, or correction of a translation in his time) or Queene Elizabeths of ever-renoumed memorie, that we acknowledge them to have beene raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posteritie in everlasting remembrance. . . . . . . Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . . . . . to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . . . . . Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . . . . . Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Translations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . . . . . But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . { That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }

Yes, that one baffled me, too. I have been a Born Again Christians since the last week of 1977. It is the strangest interpretation that I have EVER SEEN.

The point that I have been trying to make is Archeologists, (one of them is an Israeli), have found evidence proving the so-called Temple Mount, where the Dome of the Rock sits; NEVER WAS THE LOCATION OF SOLOMON'S TEMPLE, {in my opinion}. Those Archeologists are patiently waiting for a combined Audience with the Israeli Govenment and the Temple Institute, to PRESENT their Evidence that the Dome of the ROCK does not sit on the Temple Mount but rather that location is only the CENTER OF FORT ANTONIA. AND they have evidence that the Real TEMPLE MOUNT WAS 600 Feet South of the Whaling Wall. What I am gaining as an understanding from the above videos, is apparently the Archeologists claim to even have evidence that the Temple Mount bedrock was removed by Simon bar Kokhba, the Jewish Leader at that time. That location is definitely LOWER than it was at the time of CHRIST, because after the Destruction in 70 AD, in the later part of 132 AD, Simon, ordered the original Temple Mount turned into a ROCK QUARRY to remove the DEFILED Bedrock of the Temple Mount. The reason Simon considered the Temple Mount defiled, was because the Roman Emperor Hadrian had built a new City (Aelia Capitolina) over the ruins of Jerusalem, and even built a Temple to Jupitor on the original site of Solomon's Temple. Aelia Capitolina remained the name of Jerusalem, until 638 AD. That is what really TRIGGERED THE WAR known as the The Bar Kokhba revolt in 132 CE. Yeah, I had a dickens of a time finding out what CE was, and it was simple. It stands for Christian Era, in other words the same thing as AD. Apparently during that two year Period of Simon bar Kokhba RULING OVER JUDEA, he ordered that the Temple Mount be turned into a Rock Quarry to remove the bedrock defiled by the Temple of Jupiter, effectively removing Mount Zion, to where there is a debate going on in Isreal where it was for sure. They hauled the rock and dumped it in the gorges South of Jerusalem to make a fairly level road bed, giving them an easy access to Jerusalem from the South. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt) Jeremiah 26:18 (HCSB) 18 “Micah the Moreshite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah and said to all the people of Judah, ‘This is what the LORD of Hosts says: Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become ruins, and the temple mount a forested hill.’ Micah 3:12 (HCSB) 12 Therefore, because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become ruins, and the hill of the temple mount will be a thicket. 2 Samuel 5:7 (HCSB) 7 Yet David did capture the stronghold of Zion, that is, the city of David. Psalm 20:2 (NCV) 2 May he send you help from his Temple and support you from Mount Zion. Jeremiah 50:28-29 (NJB) 28 Listen! Fugitives and runaways from the country of Babylon arrive in Zion and proclaim the revenge of Yahweh our God, revenge for his Temple! 29 Call up the archers against Babylon! All you who bend the bow, invest her on all sides, leave her no way of escape. Repay her as her deeds deserve; treat her as she has treated others, for she was arrogant to Yahweh, to the Holy One of Israel. ISN'T IT CLEAR, THE TEMPLE IS IN THE WALLED STRONGHOLD OF ZION, THE CITY OF DAVID, according to Biblical Evidence? Lamentations 2:6 (HCSB) 6 He has done violence to His temple as if ⌊it were⌋ a garden ⌊booth⌋, destroying His place of meeting. The LORD has abolished appointed festivals and Sabbaths in Zion. He has despised king and priest in His fierce anger.

That is talk about the Dictator that Satan possess or controls, during the final 7 years before Christ comes back. Satan has always wanted to RULE THE WORLD through a Dictator, and He has trying SEVERAL TIMES, but the Holy Spirit has not let him fully do it. The Holy Spirit is the ONE that Holds him back. He has tried through several Dictators in the Past, like NERO, NAPOLEON, ADOLF HITLER, ETC. BUT the HOLY SPIRIT is always there, NOT LETTING Satan go too far. BUT THEN THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, and if HE IS GOING BACK TO HEAVEN, to let Satan Posses that Dictator in the end times, WE HAVE TO GO WITH HIM. John 14:16-17 (GWT) 16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever. 17 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn't see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you. That is just one of the reasons why we Evangelicals, absolutely believe in the PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE.

In the pictures on the below website, You will see what Harod's Temple should look like. So if they settle the debate on the LOCATION of the TEMPLE, it would be like the BIBLE is Clearer than the average JEWISH OPINION. We ALSO have an eye witness, Josephus, other Historians, would put the true location all along, in the CITY OF DAVID. When you consider the BIBLE, and Josephus, and many other sources such as Archaeologists, all say it is in the City of David. (Obviously the City of David is my opinion.) I think the biggest factor is the POLITICS of ADMITTING the TEMPLE MOUNT was the wrong SITE, and therefore the JEWS have not been Praying at the Western Wall of Temple, but the Western Wall of Fort Antonia. That will be an awful bitter Pill for the Jews to Swallow. It seems in the top picture, to be almost Correct, EXCEPT the size of the Court of the Gentiles, and the Eastern Gate. If I remember right it was Josephus that said, when he stood in the doorway of the Eastern Gate, if the other doors were open, he could see the curtain of the Holy of Holies. That tallest TOWER in southeastern corner of Fort Antonia is CORRECT, because Josephus had the measurements of each Tower, and he said the Southeastern Tower was build much taller so the Roman Guards could see down into the Courtyards of the Temple, watching for signs of a rebellion about to take place. He even recorded a large uprising that took place and the Roman Soldiers defeated them on double Colonnades Bridges. In an Roman Legion, you had 6000 Soldiers and about 4000 support personnel. So the artist that first drew the third Picture, for the Model in Jerusalem, NEVER bothered to look up how many people did it take to make up a Roman Legion. So if you use Fort Antonia in the top picture, and the Temple from the third picture down in the article, of the Model of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem, it would be WAY MORE ACCURATE. (https://truthinscripture.net/2017/11/03/where-was-herods-temple-temple-graphic/)

Do you not understand that the Holy Spirit will give us understanding ? ? ? 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV) 6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"-- 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: 16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

According to my understanding, we are between Chapter 3 and 4, NONE of the Prophecies after that Have happen YET, but they will. Gog is near Moscow, and Megog is west, north and east of Caspian Sea.

The book of Revelation was my Spiritual Milk, in 1978 . That is the first book of that I studied from the radio ministry - Grace To You - ministry of Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. That was a 30 minute radio show, that featured Dr. John MacArthur's sermons, verse by verse a Study of the Book of Revelation. He is Senior Pastor of mega Church called Grace Community Church near L.A. AND he is President of the L.A.'s The MASTER'S COLLEGE AND SEMINARY. I listened to that entire series on the radio program, Grace To You, then bought the cassette tapes, and RELISTENED to it OVER 3 more Times. Before I gave it away. If you would like to Listen to it, Dr. MacArthur put it online for People to Listen to FREE. (https://www.gty.org/library/resources/sermons-library/scripture/1?book=66&chapter=0) I am not sure if this is the way they want it, but copy the everything but brackets, and paste it on your Address Line. There are 37 hours of Sermons in the series, and the Tape: A Jet Tour Through Revelation , it is the first one in the series and it is a brief out line of the entire series. Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. is the most famous conservative evangelical Pastor that there is in the USA, and they are Classified Non-Denominational. I to am a conservative evangelical Christian.

Sorry, but I told you the TRUTH. WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU LEARN THAT WILD THEORY. Angels that fell, JOINED SATAN'S REBELLION, and ARE NOT THE ANTICHRIST, SATAN IS THE ANTI, and he possess a DICTATOR, most likely the LEADER of the E.U. Revelation 12:9 (NASB) 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. This next quote is Out of the Apocrypha, so it is not considered the WORD of GOD, but it is valuable as a historical book: Bel and the Dragon 1:23 (NJB) 23 There was a great dragon which the Babylonians worshipped too. Most likely this is GOD of the Underworld that the Babylonians worshiped. Now below is where I get that the Antichrist will be a REAL World Dictator, that is possessed or CONTROLLED by Satan Himself. In my opinion, the final Form of E.U. will have that DICTATOR that is controlled by SATAN, for the Final 7 Years before CHRIST COMES BACK, to set up HIS KINGDOM. Also KNOWN as the 70th week of Daniel. I goofed and do not know how to undo it. Therefore, there are actually two quotes from Dr. MacArthur, so click on the bottom arrow too.

Oh my, you certainly have a wild imagination. It is much simpler than that. Do you remember the Statue in King Nebuchadnezzar Dream, that Daniel Explained. That represent the entire History of the WORLD'S EMPIRES. There are FOUR EMPIRES, and the Ten Toes are a revival of Fourth Empire the Romans. That clay mixed with the Iron, means several member of the Revival of the Roman Empire, a 10 Nation Confederacy, will make it weaker than the original Roman Empire. The E.U. fits that Description, and SEVERAL COUNTRIES will pull a BREXIT when they see a DICTATOR about to take over the E.U. The Antichrist will be a Dictator, possessed by Satan Himself; that is INVITED TO RULE, (the Conqueror on a with white horse with bow, but no arrows, Rev. 6:2). He rules peacefully for 3.5 years, and they he becomes the most blood thirsty dictator that ever lived. Daniel 9:27 (NIV) 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him". Could that Be a Guillotine on top of that WING ? ? ? So that all the world will see those beheaded that refused to bow to him as God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (HCSB) 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For ⌊that day⌋ will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, publicizing that he himself is God. Revelation 20:4 (HCSB) 4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. ⌊I⌋ also ⌊saw⌋ the people who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God’s word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years. You want to see what Happens to that Dictator, read the entire Zechariah 14, and Rev. 19:11-21.

I have Posted this Video Before, before on another Site, but this Bares a REPEAT. Please watch this 30 minute Video all the way through, he makes some serious conclusions near the end If you want me to post all the evidence for the TEMPLE being in the City of David, please ask me for more evidence. I do not know your rules of this thread concerning Videos, sorry. Where are they posted? This Video that I was talking about, you will have to go to the YouTube site and do a Search for: Best video showing that the new Temple of God will be built in the city of David That should pull up the Video with that specific Title. ?

The Foolish Virgins are people who THINK they are Christians, but NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN. For those who are unsure, Born Again happens the moment GENUINE Faith in CHRIST really enters your heart (human spirit). The Holy Spirit works on the Heart, until it has Sincere Remorse of SIN, Rev. 2:16, Rev. 3:3, Rev. 3:19, Mat. 21:31-31, Luke 18:9-14, Ps. 34:18, Ps. 51:17. Out of the LOVE in our Hearts, because of the HOLY SPIRIT, we willing surrender to JESUS CHRIST as LORD (MASTER): John 1:12-13, Col. 2:6, Rom. 10:9, 1 Cor. 12:3. The Holy Spirit Births your human spirit from Death into ETERNAL LIFE, John 3:3-7, Col. 2:13, 1 John 3:14, Titus 3:5-8. The Holy Spirit takes up Residence in your HEART as TEACHER of Truth, John 14:16-17, John 14:26, John 16:13. Pours GOD's Love directly into our Hearts (human spirit), Rom. 5:5, Rom. 5:1-10. The Holy Spirit Gives us Spiritual Understanding, 1 Cor. 2:6-16. After we are SAVED, the Holy Spirit, uses GOD's LOVE in us, to PRODUCE LOVE FOR GOD, in the form of Obedience, and the LOVE for the Brethren, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 3:14-19. For those who do not understand that Obedience is a BYPRODUCT of GOD's LOVE IN US, and falsely think Obedience is not a free Gift and part of Salvation, try to make it square with this Scripture: 2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible) 9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. IT CAN ONLY BE A FREE GIFT, BECAUSE OF THAT VERSE.

John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, in other words with the same fire and zeal in his spirit. Was that the total fulfillment? We are not sure one way or the other. HOWEVER, I will give you some food for thought. Hebrews 9:27 (HCSB) 27 And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— Did GOD specifically mention who would be an exception to that rule? 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NASB) 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Okay, how many other people have never died? Two, Enoch and Elijah, but no where does it say they are an exception to the rule of dieing once. Could these two be Enoch and Elijah moved by GOD from their time to the end times to turn the Nation Israel to become Believers that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Messiah of Israel? Revelation 11:3-13 (NKJV) 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. 7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, { Live on CNN } and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. 11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. { Live on CNN } 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. And what could be the result of Enoch and Elijah coming back to the Nation Israel with all kinds of miraculous powers, and what could their testimony or witness be? Could it be to tell the Nation Israel, perhaps even the very day Antichrist enters the Third Temple and demands to be worshiped as God; that Jesus Christ is Our Messiah! (Yeshua Hamashiach!) That message, coming from Enoch and Elijah, who by the power of GOD are recognized by every Jew still alive at that time, as genuinely BEING Enoch and Elijah; what would be the RESULT? Zechariah 3:9 (ESV) 9 For behold, on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven eyes, I will engrave its inscription, declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of this land in a single day. Would they not ALL become that very day, as they watched the TV news about the TWO WITNESSES, Enoch and Elijah, ALL become believers that JESUS is their Messiah? 1 Corinthians 1:22 (HCSB) 22 For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks seek wisdom, And thus even Enoch and Elijah die once, at that hands of the Antichrist in the Streets of Jerusalem. Why do they "prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days"? Could it be that those two witnesses also are the ones who also lead the gentile Tribulation Saints to receive Jesus as their Lord and Messiah, and those gentiles take more convincing, because they may not miraculously recognize Enoch and Elijah? Think about it!

I am sorry that you and your family are still running into that racism down south. I was raised in a small town in Nebraska, where I did not see hardly any racism. But when I was stationed at Keisler AFB in Biloxi, Mississippi, I saw first hand just how bad it could be. Me and a buddy who was Polynesian went downtown to play pool at a local billiard parlor, and promptly got thrown out because it was for whites only. I was so embarrassed, because Pacca had no idea why he was ordered out, he was from a very small island in Hawaii, and he asked me to tell him why he was ordered out. It tore me up explaining it, but thankfully he made joke out of it, and said, "Well, when I get out of the Air Force, I will get my Dad the Chief, to get the war canoes together and we will come over here and attack Biloxi." So, I agree with the others, that ignoring them was the right thing to do. Ignorance and foolishness deserves to be ignored. Now if they claim to be Christians and there is an ongoing dialog with them and you still detect prejudice, I would show them this verse and these pictures: 1 Timothy 5:21 (HCSB) 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing out of favoritism. Jesus was known as the Nazarene, so what do men from Nazareth look like: And What if they say, but Mary was from the City of David. Okay what do they look like: NOW, since the only images we have ever seen of Christ as we grew up, were all based on drawings by white Europeans who had NEVER seen Christ. Just how certain are you that Jesus was white?

You could of saved a lot of typing if you just started with the question and waited for an answer. No, that is not what I believe. Salvation is a one time thing, as we can read in Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Once saved, we need to continue to examine ourselves to see if we have not turned from the truth, which is the scripture I provided, 2 Corinthians 13:5 . You really should refrain from posting accusations until you know the full facts, then take it private if you wish to discuss it with a member. AMEN to that! And I am sorry I jumped to that conclusion, but I have been debating a lot of others lately (mostly on another site) with very similar posts, and they were DEFINATELY trying to justify adding works to Grace, before you are saved.

wq It's Funny How My Beloved David Hunt Strongly Believed In Miracles Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12 And Yet My Dear Doctor John (MacArthur) Seems To Seek To Block The Same Holy Spirit From His Flock (And Yes I Do Love And Respect Dear Doctor John) . . . Perhaps? I told you that I do not want to debate the so-called Charismatic gifts. There would be no point in debating them. Our beliefs are as Rock Solid unmovable as yours probably are. Here are our beliefs about the Charismatic gifts in a nutshell. Hopefully you will be able to see why there would be no point in debating them. We believe that Charismatic Gifts exhibited today are absolutely not Biblical. The so called Tongues are not done the way Apostles did them. Every time the Apostles spoke in TONGUES, there were Unbelieving Jews present who heard everything they said in their own dialects. In fact, we believe the Charismatic tongues do resemble Tongues of the ancient past, those of the Greek Mystery religions, who spoke in Ecstatic Tongues frequently. In fact, Plato referred to it in the Worship of Zeus as Divine Ecstasy, and stated: "It was as if I linked up with the god." We believe the Miracle Healers of today are using the power of suggestion to bring temporary relief of symptoms, but when outsider Seminary Students investigated the healing of terminal diseases, of one very famous Faith Healer, every one of those names given to them by the Faith Healer were subsequently found to have had their symptoms return and had died of their terminal disease that the Faith Healer supposedly healed them of. We believe the Miracle sign gifts were for the APOSTLES only to validate to the Jews that the new WORDS from GOD were genuinely from GOD, just like when the Prophets did miracles. When the New Testament was complete the purpose of the miracle sign gifts ceased and so did the sign gifts. In a revival movement in 1906 the charismatic movement began, only their miracle gifts were not done in the same manor as the Apostles, therefore we believe they are counterfeits of the real gifts that the Apostles had. Mark 16:20 (HCSB) 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs. Does Scriptures say there will be miracle sign gifts in the end times, sure: 2 Thessalonians 2:9 (ASV) 9 even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, We believe what Dave Hunt said, "You are setting yourselves up to believe the lies."; accurately describes the Charismatic Movement. Yes Dave Hunt believes in miracles the same as we do. They COME FROM GOD, MOSTLY IN ANSWER TO PRAYER. We believe Modern Day Faith Healers, are self-deceived at best, and many are religious con-artists. We believe the greater works that we do than Christ is witnessing, which leads unbelievers to eternal life, which is greater than Jesus raising Lazarus to physical life only to physically die again. So you should be able to see that there is NO need for us to debate or discuss this subject, it ALWAYS ends in a stalemate, and an agreement to agree to disagree. No I will not respond to another post on this subject, and I certainly have no interest in arguing with you about our differences in what we believe about the Charismatic Gifts.

Wow these are mine as well... welcome by the way Love, Steven YES, AMEN, I have found them to be very sound Biblically, and a genuine Blessing to be taught by.

Now how do you know that. First things first. Have you ever Confessed to God that you are a sinner, mourning over your sinfulness? 1 John 1:9 (NKJV) 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Psalm 34:18 (NIV) 18 The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. Job 5:11 (NKJV) 11 He sets on high those who are lowly, And those who mourn are lifted to safety. Ezekiel 24:23 (HCSB) 23 Your turbans will remain on your heads and your sandals on your feet. You will not lament or weep but will waste away because of your sins and will groan to one another. Matthew 5:4 (NKJV) 4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted. { That verse is primarily about those who mourn over their sinfulness. } See it, it is those who are brokenhearted and crushed in the spirit, whom GOD CAN USE. It is the Proud, that he cannot use. The night He saved me, was after a third attempt at suicide in one week. I was going through an unwanted divorce, and felt useless and worthless. I felt something in me break, and I think it was the PRIDE of running my own life my own way. There was a tremendous rush of guilt over my utterly sinful lifestyle. It dropped me to my knees bawling and weeping uncontrollably, and I cried out to the LORD, "If you have a purpose for my life, then you will have to come into it, and run my life, because I can't do it. I am making a total mess of it." I knew in my heart I was totally surrendering to the LORD as MASTER. I was willingly giving HIM complete control of my life. And no one in the Church I was raised in, ever taught me to pray a prayer like that. Is that what the Bible tells us to do? YES, and few Churches seem to be teaching it that way any more. John 1:12-13 (HCSB) 12 But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God. Received Him as what though? Colossians 2:6 (NIV) 6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him, Romans 10:9 (NASB) 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; { NOTICE: It says CONFESS, not profess. You really have to have received Him in your heart as LORD which means MASTER, before you can say it as a confession.} That word LORD literally means MASTER. There are many who want a Savior, but very few who want a MASTER. Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV) 13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. We enter that small gate and onto the narrow road, when we receive HIM as MASTER (LORD). How do I know all of this is TRUE? It is the story of my life, when I surrendered control of my life to HIM willingly, I was as far down as I could get emotionally. I meant that prayer with my whole being, never to take back the control over my life that I was giving him. Yes I had to get into His Word and He gave me a hunger for His WORD that I never had before. Through His Word He started changing me from the inside out. Was He able to take this Nebraska farm boy with an addiction to a party hardy lifestyle and USE HIM? I mean really use me for HIS purposes. ABSOLUTELY! In time He molded me to fit HIS purposes, moved me and my godly wife HE gave me to California, and even though I had no formal Bible College training, HE opened the doors for me to become a Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain, in two of the hardest Maximum Security Prisons in California. Nine years at Pelican Bay State Prison, and 6 years at High Desert State Prison. You see it is not a matter of do we have the skills to be used by GOD. It is a matter of mourning over one's sinfulness and then willingly out LOVE giving HIM control over your life, and willing to be used. I had NO training in how to start a Prison Ministry, but I knew HE KNEW HOW TO DO IT, and HE was putting it on my heart to Volunteer at Pelican Bay State Prison, and I trusted HIM to give me the ability to do what HE wanted me to do. Please respond to this post. I pray you have confessed to HIM that you are a sinner, and have received HIM as your personal LORD. P.S. I am happier than I have ever been since I gave HIM control of my Life. He is doing a GREAT job of running my life. The "born of GOD" mentioned in John 1:13, is the born again in John 3:3 & 7. It is not a weird event as some may think, and it CERTAINLY is a REALITY. John 3:6 (NIV) 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. That verse gives us the information to understand what it is. The human spirit has to be brought to Eternal Life by the Holy Spirit to be in tune with the Will of GOD. Because of Adam's sin of rebellion, we all inherited a sin nature, which amount to being spiritually dead to the Will of GOD. That bringing of our human spirit to eternal life, happens when we admit to GOD that we are sinners and surrender control willingly to Jesus Christ as LORD. It is a great feeling to KNOW HE LOVES US, and that we LOVE HIM BACK via our obedience. That kind of "KNOWING" Him only comes when our human spirit is brought to Eternal life, because that eternally alive spirit thinks too, but it is focused on Jesus Christ, instead of self. OH YES, GOD certainly has a plan for your life. He allows us to go through many negative things to prepare us to witness to others who are going through the same kind of negative things we did. REMEMBER, I had to hit bottom face first HARD, before I learned to look up. So I absolutely believe you are far enough down to be ready to be used by GOD. In my Prison ministry, I witnessed to a lot of inmates who were thinking about suicide or had tried it. I always shared with them that the thing that stopped me from finishing pulling that trigger, was the SHEAR TERROR of knowing HELL was for REAL, and FOREVER. Ephesians 2:4-5 (NIV) 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. John 5:24 (HCSB) 24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. If you need proof that there is a human spirit, check out these verses: Zechariah 12:1 (NIV) 1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (HCSB) 23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 4:12 (HCSB) 12 For the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, penetrating as far as the separation of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the ideas and thoughts of the heart.

Let's clarify exactly what your Position is. It appears you are saying that you personally believe that, "Salvation is Grace through faith PLUS examining yourself frequently." If that is what you believe, then what you believe is a TOTAL false Doctrine, and a Contradiction of what the Scriptures actually say! Romans 11:6 (HCSB) 6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace. Now notice what GOD says here: Malachi 3:6 (NKJV) 6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. THEREFORE, if we can find out how GOD saved one man, we will know how he saved all who are saved and those in the future who will be saved. Romans 4:3-5 (NKJV) 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, That means SALVATION is GRACE through Faith, PLUS NOTHING ELSE. In fact it is a FREE GIFT. Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. You are confusing Salvation which is by HIS GRACE, with our Christian Walk of good works; which we do because we have been saved via the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Salvation by GRACE is receiving what we do not deserve and CANNOT earn. God's MERCY is NOT receiving what we do deserve.

I have no idea if the Christian online matchmaking services are any good, but they advertise a lot on TV here: Christian Mingle AND a close friend met her Christian husband through eHarmony, and they have been married nearly 15 years now. You can find their websites by doing a simple Google search. I know they charge for the service but I have no idea how much. I repeat, I really do not know their percentage of success rate. So it may or maynot be worth the try.