WilliamL

Mine was a fair answer to an unfair question, since the term son of perdition is only used twice in the Bible, and one of them is referring to Judas.

...because there is no mention of "the Antichrist" anywhere, except in 1 & 2 John, and then only as a spirit. Everything else about "the Antichrist" is merely speculative doctrines of men. 20. “The Antichrist” Myth Debunks a number of false presumptions about “The Antichrist” that are taught in modern-day churches. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1150-the-antichrist-myth/

Not only no results, but also no appreciable data that I can find. Which makes me question how thorough the search actually was.

Egypt, Part 2: Its Coming “Cruel Master” Isaiah 19:2 “And I will set Egyptians against Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbor; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in its midst… 4 And the Egyptians I will give over into the hand of A CRUEL MASTER; and a fierce king shall rule over them,” says the Lord, the LORD of Hosts. 5 “And the waters of the sea [or, estuary] will become dried up, and the river will be parched and dry…” (See Part 1 for the rest of this passage.) Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end…the King of the North… 42 …shall stretch out his hand against other lands: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall rule over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; and Libyans and Ethiopians will be in his march of conquest. Ezekiel 30:1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Howl ‘Woe to the day!’ 3 For a day is approaching, even a day unto the LORD is approaching, a cloudy day: it shall be the time of the Gentiles. [Cf. Luke 21:24.] 4 And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down. 5 Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Khub, and the sons of the land of the covenant with them, shall fall with them by the sword.” 6 “‘Thus says the LORD: “They also that uphold Egypt shall fall; and the pride of her power shall come down: from Migdol [N. Egypt] to Syene [= Aswan, S Egypt], they shall fall in it by the sword,” says the Lord GOD. 7 “And they shall be desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities shall be in the midst of the cities that are wasted. 8 And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have set a fire in Egypt, and when all her helpers shall be destroyed.”’” The fulfillment of these prophesies may be not far off. Consider the following from a recent news article: Egypt…gets about 85 percent of its wheat from Russia and Ukraine. The Egyptians are now desperately looking for alternative supplies. In early March…in the Cairo area…flatbread loaves increased in price by 50 percent over the course of a week. This is an urgent issue for the Egyptian government, and beyond: The mass protests, deadly confrontations, overthrow of the Mubarak regime and temporary seizure of the country by the radical Muslim Brotherhood all began with a surge in the price of bread. War in Ukraine could lead to another revolution in Egypt, and a revolution in Egypt would affect other nations in the Middle East, and beyond. “Remember, bread riots are what started the Arab Spring; bread riots are what started the French Revolution,” said Teucrium CEO Sal Gilbertie. “It is a biblical event when you run low on food stocks.” – The Philadelphia Trumpet, May-June 2022, p. 17. So the coming scenario might well look like this: 1) Food riots lead to instability in Egypt, then it’s current government gets overthrown by Muslim fundamentalists. Civil war – “city against city,” Isaiah 19:2 – causes Egypt to become divided into various warlord-ruled areas, very much like Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are now. 2) A European Union and/or NATO leader arises to deal with both the ensuing “push/thrust” at them from a “King of the South” Islamic regime (Dan. 11:40), almost certainly being of Iran (but possibly of Egypt); and increasing violence and instability throughout the whole Middle East. 3) This leader, the King of the North, invades through Syria-Lebanon, north of Israel; then is allowed, by means of a nominal alliance with Israel, to occupy that land (11:41); then cruelly subdues ‘the fanatical terrorists’ throughout northeastern Africa – in Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, and Libya. There he will be as ruthless as Putin has been in Ukraine, arguing that he must do so in order to avenge the “thrust;” and also – and more importantly – in order to secure Middle Eastern oil and gas supplies; and, of course, in order to occupy Jerusalem and its Temple Mount (11:45), both by then certainly having been the site of extreme religious violence. Returning from his lengthy conquest of Egypt et al., the King of the North Daniel 11:45 …will plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain [the Temple Mount]; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. 12:1 At that time…there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation… [= the Great Tribulation]. Those who witness the beginning of these events, and who “will understand” (Dan. 12:10) what they are seeing, may stand in assurance that the Parousia of the Lord is not far distant. From: 66. Egypt, Part 2: Its Coming “Cruel Master” Shows in more detail how Egypt’s judgment relates to coming events in the Middle East that lead up to the Parousia of Christ. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2763-egypt-part-2-its-coming-cruel-master/

“ As Egypt Implements Massive Devaluation Of Currency, Sending Pound Tumbling, Unrest & Instability On Horizon March 6, 2024 “ The Egyptian pound crashed Wednesday as the government initiated a devaluation of more than 38%, while also hiking interest rates… “ Already with one of the world’s highest levels of foreign debt, Egypt is trying to avoid potential default… “ Economic conditions have only steadily worsened by the increasing strain of over five months of war in neighboring Gaza, amid an ever-present risk that all of this together could fuel popular unrest and destabilization… “ So a big question will remain whether the inflation surge will lead to a spike in local instability at a very delicate geopolitical moment. The Sisi government and military deep state has long been propped up by Washington, in order to ensure the Camp David Accords and historic peace with Israel; however, the opposition and outlawed Muslim Brotherhood and its ultra-conservative Islam still holds sway over huge swathes of the population. “ Simmering anger on the Egyptian street over Israel’s military actions in Gaza, and soaring civilian death toll, could when combined with the inflationary surge unleashed by these major reform steps could boil over into anti-government unrest. [Boldface is in original text.] ” https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/egypt-implements-massive-devaluation-currency-sending-pound-tumbling-popular-unrest-could “ Egypt’s Suez Canal Revenue Plummets February 21, 2024 “ Egypt’s Suez Canal revenue has plunged to nearly half of what it was last year, said Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi during a conference with oil companies on Monday. In January 2023, the strategic waterway passed 2,155 vessels with a generated $804 million. Compare that to January 2024 when 1,362 vessels passed through, yielding $428 million. … “ Attacks: The decrease in revenue is caused by the continued attacks by Yemen’s Houthi rebel group in the Red Sea. … “ Although the whole world has been negatively affected by the Red Sea disruption, Egypt is at the greatest disadvantage. The Suez Canal provides the country with its main source of foreign currency in the midst of its severe financial crisis. “ Other domestic issues: The Suez Canal has been vital in combating Egypt’s foreign currency shortage caused by decreased tourism and increased oil and wheat costs following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Inflation also has been a major issue, hitting a record high of 39.7 percent last August. ” https://www.thetrumpet.com/29057-egypts-suez-canal-revenue-plummets

I have presented facts and evidence: the course of the ship, and the times along that course. They speak for themselves, no conjecture needed: the ship began to turn in the direction of the pillar before the power loss, for no discernible reason. If there was a legitimate reason for this, the authorities have had plenty of time to find out why, and to provide the reason. You, on the other hand, have provided no counter data, just vague speculations, along with a lot of accusation. You say, "Personally I like to stick to the facts until I have all the evidence." But you also say that "all the evidence" may never come out. So you are playing both sides of the fence: on the one side accusing me of conspiracy-thinking, while on the other side admitting that there may be an actual conspiracy.

Not necessarily. One has to be looking at precisely the right place for a period of at least 6 months, and general sky surveys just don't do that. If a Niburu is on a polar orbit, and at the distance of Pluto or beyond, the likelihood of spotting it becomes very slim. The parallax would be extremely narrow.

I don't believe you have specifically answered my question, just dodged around it.

According to Matthew 24:3-31 and 1 Thes. 4, "the resurrected just" (elect/chosen) AND the living saints will arise to meet Jesus in the air during His Parousia "after the tribulation." Matthew 24:29

Rev. 7 doesn't even HINT that these saints have all been killed. That is you adding a presumption to the Word. Again, Rev. 8 doesn't even HINT that this passage is retrospective to chapter 6 and 7. The latter occur during the 6th Seal, whereas Rev. 8 picks up at the 7th Seal and the Trumpets. 7 does not precede 6, it follows 6. Adding presumptions into the Word to support a case is nearly always a recipe for a false teaching.

Indirectly. That passage takes place at the Parousia of Christ: verse 15. The Man of Sin is destroyed the Parousia of Christ: 2 Thes. 2:8. These things therefore take place at the same time. As do the events of Matthew 24:3-31 (verses 3 and 27 say Parousia), and the resurrection of the dead of 1 Cor. 15 (verse 23). https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2211-the-parousia-of-the-son-of-man/

Absolutely no reason for this. If anything, it should have been steering to ship to the left, away from any proximity to the pillar. No obstacle in sight shown in the videos. No reason to veer toward the pier shown in the videos. The moon was low in the east, meaning the tide was was not coming in, so no side-current from it. The ship was in a river channel, without anything flowing into it crossways, so no reason for the ship to veer into any non-existent heavy cross-current. In short, nothing that you have provided makes any logical sense. Which gets back to the same old question I raised: why was the ship veering toward the right when the power went out, when it had been cutting it close to the pillar before that turn even was initiated?? There was a vast amount of open space between the ship and the other pillar even before the turn to the right, so there was no reason to bear further right.

Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib Summary What takes place during the first five Seals of Revelation 6 is the same sequence of events prophesied in Matthew 24:5-14: 1) false messiahs and prophets, 2) internecine wars, 3) food scarcity and famine, 4) earthquakes and other chaotic events, and 5) persecution of believers. Some believers will be killed during this time of the Great Tribulation: these are the saints of the 5th Seal "slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Rev. 6:9 = Matt. 24:9 Then comes the 6th Seal's heavenly and earthly cataclysms = Matt. 24:29, which come "immediately after the Tribulation." Then comes Christ in the clouds to gather up his elect = the Rapture, while being seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7), which causes all the unbelievers to mourn, and to flee and hide in fear. Matt. 24:30-31; Rev. 1:7, 6:15-17; Is. 2:10-11, 19-21 At that time, after the Rapture of the Church and during the unbelievers' fear, the Great Tribulation has been completed, and "the great day of [God's] wrath came/has come." Rev. 6:17. But "God did not appoint us [the elect] to [His] Wrath" (1 Thes. 5:9), so we've been taken outta here just before. [A great deception is promoted by those who teach that the Tribulation and the Wrath are the same thing: Scripture makes a clear distinction between the two.] Now at this same time, there is a third group, those of Israel who also see Jesus in the clouds, realize that he is their Messiah "whom they pierced," and therefore demonstrate their repentance and faith in him when they "mourn for him like one mourns for his only son." Zech. 12:10ff. The very next event is Rev. 7:1-8, which continues on from the earthly perspective of Rev. 6, and tells us of the 144,000 Israelites who are sanctified/sealed in their foreheads "on the earth." Who are these but repentant Israelites of Zech. 12:10? For them, it is too late to be raptured, because they were not among "those who were ready" when the Bridegroom came. Matt. 25:10 Then John's view is shifted to heaven, and he is shown 'those who came out of the Great Tribulation' (Rev. 7:14), being those just raptured, "standing before the throne and the before the Lamb, clothed with white robes." Rev. 7:9 These fulfill the promise of Luke 21:36: "Watch, therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things [of the Great Tribulation] and to stand before the Son of Man." Revelation 8 - 19 then tell us what will come upon all who were not ready for the Bridegroom: they must go through the time of God's Wrath, which includes both the Trumpets and Bowls, during which there will be believers on earth who will be martyred by the Beast. They will arise in the Rev. 20:4 resurrection, after Christ has descended to earth (Rev. 19) and defeated the Beast and kings of the earth.

False accusation; I have always taught pre-wrath here. The time of the Wrath commences at the 6th Seal: "the great day of His Wrath is come/came." 6:17 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath..." 1 Thes. 5:9 God's elect of the Church will be raptured at the Parousia, which takes place at the 6th Seal. The Beast does not come onto the scene until later.

Nope. This Man of Sin is destroyed at the Parousia (2:8), which is also the time of the Rapture. 1 Thes. 4:15-17 The Beast does not ascend from the Abyss (Rev. 11:7; 17:8) until after the Abyss is opened at the 5th Trumpet (Rev. 9:1-2). Whereas the raptured saints are seen in Rev. 7 in heaven (7:9ff), before the trumpets are blown.

Yes I did, and responded that these are post-rapture believers. Per the following prophecy: Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look upon Me whom they pierced, and they will mourn over Him as one mourns over his only son, and grieve over Him as one grieves over a firstborn. Such as these are the post-trib saints who come to the faith when they see Jesus at His Parousia. But they must then live (and some die) during the time of the Wrath, which is going on in the time of the scriptures you posted.

I agree. The Son of Perdition I refer to is the one of 2 Thes. 2, who is brought to nothing at the Parousia of Christ. 2 Thes. 2:8 Thus well before the Beast arrives. Judas is not mentioned at all in End Times prophecies. But you can make you case if you would like to try.

Thanks for the reminder, I didn't catch the distinction you made. Problem is, the events in the verses you quoted all take place after the rapture, which occurs at the close of the Great Tribulation, well before the Beast ever comes on the scene. We see those who have been raptured in Revelation 7 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, ... 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones having come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The Beast shall "ascend out of the Abyss" (11;7; 17:8), which is not opened until the 5th Trumpet (9:1-2); well after the events of Rev. 7.

Yes.

Again, you have not proven this at all. All you provide is your own belief, without a shred of actual scientific evidence proving the certainty of your claim. But it's a safe claim, because no one will remember it in five years.

So are you one who makes no distinction between the Great Tribulation and the Day of God's Wrath?

Maybe soon, but certainly not now. We'll know more about the times and the players when we see the Daniel 11:40 war commence, soon followed by Israel being occupied by the Son of Perdition. But the Son of Perdition is NOT the Beast, so a lot depends on who you mean when you use the term "the Antichrist." A term with a whole lot of baggage surrounding it, and causing more confusion than understanding, IMHO.

Wrong question. Right question: which nation will be the most powerful on earth at that time. So far, we can only speculate at the answer.

There will be saints on earth who will be raptured before the events of these verses; and there will be other saints on earth (particularly Jews who come to faith when they see Jesus in His Parousia) after the rapture, during the events of these verses. 56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1 Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/ 57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/

First link is the track with time stamps 11 minutes apart. Second link is the timeline, showing the power loss occurred 2-1/2 minutes before the collision. Pro-rating that last 2-1/2 minutes to the 11 minutes shows me that the ship was already veering toward the pillar before the power outage; and also that the ship's original heading was way, way to the right of the middle of the channel between the pillars. https://www.pilotonline.com/2024/03/26/baltimore-key-bridge-collapse-map-view-the-path-of-the-cargo-ship-dali/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/within-minutes-departure-faltering-container-ship-crashes-into-baltimore-bridge-2024-03-26/ What have you got? Never said you did.