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Hi Thank you for sharing of your life and such. Don't give up, Life can seem overwhelming at times and sometimes we may very well feel quite alone, but the truth is that in Christ you are no longer Alone. God so much wants to have a profound personal relationship just with you and Him alone. He wants to adopt you as His wonderful daughter, just beautiful in His eyes, because He chose you to know Him and for Him to help you. God your Father will help you, He will give you the strength , courage and wisdom that no other can give. Remember always what Christ Jesus said: I did not come for those who are well , I came for those who are sick, go and learn what that means. Matthew 9:12 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”… Mark 2:17 6When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples, “Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. Luke 5:32 …31Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. If you are drawn to God through Christ Jesus, then that is the best news. John 10:7-14 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine Christ Jesus our GOOD shepherd is here right here, right now, for you. He will refresh you, cleanse you and help you become the child of God you were always intended to be. When you don't feel worthy, remember these WORDS ALWAYS: 2 Corinthians 5 Corinthians 5New King James Version (NKJV) Assurance of the Resurrection 5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. The Judgment Seat of Christ 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. Be Reconciled to God 12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Most importantly to always remember: 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Don't worry so much about anything anymore, give it to God and He will help direct your path. Philippians 4:6-7 6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Your loving Eternal Father truly would like to have a daily ongoing relationship with you. He is just waiting for you to converse with Him and He will respond back. Ask God to please help you to learn to trust in Him. He will show you how. You will be OK God has your back, just let Him help you and He will.

A chaque saint son chandle, 1to3. Jag kommer att hålla dig i mina böner

Age before beauty; be the good example then, so i won't have to ask you why you do differently. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3

Are you trying to :Trying to stir up dissent? I am trying to clear things up and you are now trying to stir the pot further? Sorry, I do not wish to engage with you. Peace

I just read this post today, I did not know of any inner going ons. I just remarked of what I saw was going on in this thread when reading it today and i found some responses quite rude and unfair and mentioned it. since someone now says they reported me, I cannot delete what I wrote as i am now being accused of wrong doing when i simply gave my thoughts to how unfair it all is. I have nothing more to say about this, only that if we all could be more respectful of one another , it certainly would make this place a much nicer place.

Personal attack. Please stop going after mg. If you have problems, discuss it in pm or with the mods. Post reported. I did not go after anyone personally k? This was my response : But you do that all the time? And you reported me for this? for pointing out the truth? WOW, some people here can be rude to others be disrespectful to others, say it's presumptuous to tell others how they should think or speak. And futile. and if someone points it out that that person does it all the time, they get reported? looks more like a two tear system going on here...-not fair- no serry

shilow357: you don't like the post you are free to ignore it. But if you choose to criticize it, you can expect push back. Shiloh357 said: I don't have to care what you think or what you approve of and I am not under any moral obligation to tailor my posting habits to your sensitivities. Shiloh357 said:I don't really care. It makes it easier on me if you ignore me, anyway. I have no tolerance for condescending, self-righteousness. No need to apologize to someone in the wrong. apologizing here is like giving pearls to swines.

but you do it,and so many times rudely and disrespectfully, so it makes it ok for you to do it?

But you do that all the time?

There was a time church coffee tasted delicious as it was prepared with care & love

I think the same for myself. I have a totally abusive older brother that learnt to abuse me through the example of my mother. My mother liked to place us in competition against one another for her affection. In the end it backfired badly on my mother as i don't think my bother gave to much regard to my mother even in her dying last moments. but i stood by my mother even in her last dying moments. I always looked for my mothers love but could never get it. she did weird stuff to me as a young child and would one moment be nice and then cruel and she would say to me she regretted i was ever born or that she preferred my brother to me. when my father died, I really felt alone with two people i knew did not want me around and made me feel it too. Its a horrible feeling to not feel wanted or that you don't even belong in your own family. Something i felt at a very early age. (before or around two years) I would have wished to have things different, tried all the methods to try to be friends with my brother to no avail. My brother leaned to treat me bad through my mother. My mother , she eventually got closer to God and Christ towards her final years in life, but was the product of world war two East Prussia Germany and probably her own dysfunction in her own early childhood. She did things to me ( that not even my father knew about) to make me feel the pain she must have experienced as a young child herself. when i was very young, my brother said to me : I am the king and you are nothing." and proceeded to try and steal whatever i had or take away whatever i had. He verbally/emotionally publicly and privately and physically (not sexual) abused me, at some instances) And today, if I give him the chance and he will continue on the same path. after my mom passed, he put a stick in the wheel at every step of closing my mothers estate. It took over ten years to close. to ever trust him after all the things he did to me would be completely foolish on my part. I need to stay very far away from my own brother for my own survival, he is that toxic to my life. In 2016, i lost my uncle and even then, my brother tried to keep my from going to my uncles funeral so he could get all the glory. he called me to tell me that my uncle did not care for me, hoping that would upset me enough not to go to the funeral. But close friends and business associates of my uncle were there for me and kept my brother at a distance f from me during my uncles funeral. My uncle did care for me and in fact had told his friends and business associates about my brother and to protect me from my brother. Its really sad. I definitely know that if my brother had Christ Jesus in him , that he would be a changed human being. But he is an atheist and relentlessly mocks anyone who believes in God. Families that are close and friendly and christian with one another, is very foreign to me. sadly. I was given the family i was given to learn . and so I am learning from this experience. Only through finding a daily relationship in Christ Jesus have I been able to heal a lot of early childhood wounds and trauma. and without Christ Jesus in my life, i would be in a very sad place today if not completely dead.

Thank M. Michael Fernandez, for your research into this subject. I really appreciated what you presented. Alleluia Great!

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible For this they willingly are ignorant of,.... Namely, what follows; for as these men were such as had professed Christianity, and had the advantage of revelation, and had the opportunity of reading the Scriptures, they might have known that the heavens and the earth were from the beginning; and that they were made by the word of God; and that the earth was originally in such a position and situation as to be overflowed with a flood, and that it did perish by a general inundation; and that the present heavens and earth are kept and reserved for a general burning; and it might be discerned in nature, that there are preparations making for an universal conflagration; but all this they chose not to know, and affected ignorance of: particularly that by the word of God the heavens were of old: not only in the times of Noah, but "from the beginning"; as the Ethiopic version reads, and which agrees with the account in Genesis 1:1; by "the heavens" may be meant both the third heaven, and the starry heavens, and the airy heavens, with all their created inhabitants; and especially the latter, since these were concerned in, and affected with the general deluge; and these were in the beginning of time, out of nothing brought into being, and so were not eternal, and might be destroyed again, or at least undergo a change, even though they were of old, and of long duration: for it was "by the word of God" that they at first existed, and were so long preserved in being; either by the commanding word of God, by his powerful voice, his almighty fiat, who said, Let it be done, and it was done, and who commanded beings to rise up out of nothing, and they did, and stood fast; and so the Arabic version renders it, "by the command of God"; or by his eternal Logos, the essential Word of God, the second Person in the Trinity, who is often in Scripture called the Word, and the Word of God, and, as some think, by the Apostle Peter, 1 Peter 1:23, and certain it is that the creation of all things is frequently ascribed to him; see John 1:16; wherefore by the same Word they might be dissolved, and made to pass away, as they will: and the earth standing out of the water and in the water; that is, "by the Word of God"; for this phrase, in the original text, is placed after this clause, and last of all; and refers not only to the being of the heavens of old, but to the rise, standing, and subsistence of the earth, which is here particularly described for the sake of the deluge, the apostle afterwards mentions: and it is said to be "standing out of the water", or "consisting out of it"; it consists of it as a part; the globe of the earth is terraqueous, partly land and partly water; and even the dry land itself has its rise and spring out of water; the first matter that was created is called the deep, and waters in which darkness was, and upon which the Spirit of God moved, Genesis 1:2; agreeably to which Thales the Milesian asserted (t), that water was the principle of all things; and the Ethiopic version here renders the words thus, "and the Word of God created also the earth out of water, and confirmed it": the account the Jews give of the first formation of the world is this (u); "at first the world was , "water in water"; what is the sense (of that passage Genesis 1:2 "and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters?" he returned, and made it snow; he casteth forth his ice like morsels, Psalm 147:17; he returned and made it earth; "for to the snow he saith, Be thou earth", Job 37:6, and the earth stood upon the waters; "to him that stretched out the earth above the waters", Psalm 136:6;'' however, certain it is, that the earth was first covered with water, when at the word, and by the command of God, the waters fled and hasted away, and were gathered into one place, and the dry land rose up and appeared; and then it was that it "stood out of the water"; see Genesis 1:9; moreover, the earth consists, or is kept and held together by water; there is a general humidity or moisture that runs through it, by which it is compacted together, or otherwise it would resolve into dust, and by which it is fit for the production, increase, and preservation of vegetables and other things, which it otherwise would not be: and it is also said to stand "in the water", or by the water; upon it, according to Psalm 24:2; or rather in the midst of it, there being waters above the firmament or expanse; in the airy heavens, in the clouds all around the earth, called the windows of heaven; and water below the firmament or expanse, in the earth itself; besides the great sea, a large body of waters is in the midst of the earth, in the very bowels of it, which feed rivers, and form springs, fountains and wells, called "the fountains of the great deep", Genesis 7:11; and in this position and situation was the earth of old, and so was prepared in nature for a general deluge, and yet was preserved firm and stable by the word of God, for a long series of time; so the Arabic version renders it, "and the earth out of the water, and in the water, stood stable, by the command of God"; but when it was his pleasure, he brought the flood on the world of the ungodly, of which an account follows. http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-5.htm Bible Question: If Adam and Eve were the first people on the earth, then explain Jeremiah 4:23-28. What was he talking about? There had to be people to build the fruitful place and the city. Bible Answer: Here is the passage you are asking about, I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light. I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro. I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were pulled down before the LORD, before His fierce anger. For thus says the LORD, “The whole land shall be a desolation, yet I will not execute a complete destruction. “For this the earth shall mourn and the heavens above be dark, because I have spoken, I have purposed, and I will not change My mind, nor will I turn from it.” (NASB) Jeremiah 4:23-28 The context of Jeremiah 4 will help us understand the meaning of this passage. Therefore, the first thing we want to do is know what was said before and after verses 23-28. The Context Jeremiah 4:1 starts with this statement, “If you will return, O Israel,” declares the LORD . . . (NASB) Jeremiah 4:1 This first verse tells us that God is speaking to the people of Israel. Then in Jeremiah 4:4 God warns them to repent of their sins or His wrath will come upon them. Then in verse 14, God warns them again, Wash your heart from evil, O Jerusalem, that you may be saved . . . (NASB) Jeremiah 4:14 God is warning them that destruction is coming upon the land of Israel unless they repent of their sins. The warnings continue. Finally in verses 23-28, the destruction of the land of Israel is described in dramatic imagery. In order to show how serious God is, the prophet uses imagery from Genesis 1:2 and says the land will be “formless and void.” If we look at the verses just after this passage, we see soldiers, death, destruction, and people. This means that Jeremiah 4:23-28 is describing a military invasion. History tells us that it is the Babylonian army which did this. The description is the coming disaster upon the land of Israel. Fruitful Land The beautiful land is the land of Israel. In Jeremiah 2:7 God tells us that the fruitful land is “My land.” The fruitful land is symbolic language for the Promised Land, the land of Israel. Conclusion Jeremiah 4:23-28 is not talking about the creation of the world. The fruitful land is the land of Israel, and the passage is talking about the destruction of the people and the desolation of the land because of their unwillingness to repent of their sins. God always gives men and women an opportunity to repent of their sins. But when they refuse, judgment comes. God is looking for men and women of godly character. God calls every person to believe in Jesus Christ in order to have their sins forgiven. https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/does-jeremiah-423-28-imply-that-adam-and-eve-were-not-the-first-couple/

Hi Hazard, How do we know that "The sun moon and stars shone during Noah's flood" we do not know for sure that, as when their is something like the flood that has been reported in the bible, that is quite a disturbance. When weather becomes real bad, visibility also become real bad. I would not be surprised if all went kind of dark for a while. when bad weather conditions happen, we do loose a lot of visibility as things do become darkened. Also if you look at scripture there are many places that describe desolation, ruins and destruction and things becoming darkened . Joel 3:15 14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15The sun and moon grow dark And the stars lose their brightness. 16The LORD roars from Zion And utters His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth tremble. But the LORD is a refuge for His people And a stronghold to the sons of Israel.… Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light Job 9:7 Verse Concepts Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars; Job 3:9 "Let the stars of its twilight be darkened; Let it wait for light but have none, And let it not see the breaking dawn Joel 2:10 Before them the earth quakes, The heavens tremble, The sun and the moon grow dark And the stars lose their brightness Amos 8:9 "It will come about in that day," declares the Lord GOD, "That I will make the sun go down at noon And make the earth dark in broad daylight. Ecclesiastes 12:2 before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars are darkened, and clouds return after the rain; Ezekiel 32:7 "And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light. Matthew 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, Joel 2:31 "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. Acts 2:20 'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME. Revelation 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; Luke 23:45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two. Ezekiel 32:8 "All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land," Declares the Lord GOD. Luke 21:25 "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, Quote from Hazard: Jer. 4:23-26 "25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. There were men, women and animals in the ark that went through and survived Noahs flood..." yes but nowhere else https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/23525/what-does-it-mean-in-genesis-12-and-jeremiah-423-when-they-refer-to-the-earth Conclusion The tohu va-bohu of Genesis 1 and Jeremiah 4 is not the pure non-existence of 'creation ex nihilo', but neither is it a previous creation made and brought to ruin in the span between Genesis 1.1 and 1.2 as the 'gap theory' claims. Instead, tohu va-bohu means something like 'desolate and waste', describing the disorderly and functionless chaos. Genesis 1.2 portrays the original act of creation, when God brings order to the 'desolate and waste' primordial chaos, and assigns function to that which he creates. Jeremiah 4.23 poetically describes judgment on Jerusalem, which is depicted as a reversal of creation; the world (of Israel) is brought back to a state of 'desolate and waste' disorder: mountains are leveled (4.24), the skies are emptied of birds (4.25), farmland is made barren and cities are emptied of people (4.26), etc

Then you don't really know whats been going on for centuries concerning this and the world of religion and politics

I will try but I hope others will also... God could have still very well created them after He created the heavens before the foundation of the earth was laid. They could have very well witnessed the creation of the earth from the heavens as God first created the heavens and soon after the earth. The angels could very well have been created after the heavens were formed God created everything perfect and good and said so in Genesis. Genesis ch1 v31 Then God saw that everything that He had made was VERY GOOD. So the evening and morning were the six day. But these passages don't say these where imperfect like you are saying they are. Gen. 1:2; mention's the beginning of when God began to form the earth. there is nothing not good about that. Jer. 4:23-26 mentions the flood in Noha's time that happened later on. The rebellion happened after the time of the six day creation and after the seventh day of rest. It happened between after the seventh day and before Eve was tempted in the garden of Eden. There are many passages in scripture that refer God to be like water, rushing water, so I do not see that water would be anything negative in the genesis 1:2 as Water is very much needed to form life, electricity and creation of living things. Because lucifer and his angels sinned. It was meant for him and his angels and not mankind "and why is it located in the Earth " Because God cast down Lucifer and the angels that followed lucifer out of Hid heaven and unto the earth realm. Yes they did sin before man sometime after the seventh day and before Eve was tempted in the garden of Eden. Man did not sin before the angels did. Lucifer and a third of the angels sinned before man was tempted by fallen Lucifer/satan/serpent of old in the garden of Eden. Well the bible does not speak of them, for all we know, they do not exist as man is saying they do. Like the Photoshoped pictures that NASA gives out to be true but are not.(but that's for another thread.) just like Darwinian theory of revolutions and other man made theories are not what the bible says. but for sake of argument these "billions of sun, moons, and galaxies and planets would all have been created during the creation period of the heavens. But the bible does not speak of those in enumreation . The creation of ALL that God created was mentioned in the beginning of Genesis ch1. with all due respect Hazard,you are adding to what God mentions and claiming it to be correct, even though the bible does not mentioned anything about an existing earth before the genesis creation of it. Hazard, you know the creation of angels are mentioned and very clearly so in the bible. The angels inhabit the heavens with God, the fallen angels where cast out of the 3rd heaven of God and down to the earth realm and roaming the earth and its sky heaven. The first heaven if you like. good question, Does not Christ Jesus say that who is great needs to lower themselves and serve to be great? Angels have been created spiritual beings living in the heavens above the earth to cover and protect and serve God. By serving God they are serving us, by protecting and watching over us. they are not just bound to earth, they also are in the heavens We are lower in that we are still earth bound while the good angels of God are not. They have already their place above in the heavens, while we are still earth bound. We are not to bow down to angels, they where placed to serve us and THAT is WHAT infuriated Lucifer into prideful jealousy. They came about after Lucifer had sinned. after the seventh day and before Lucifer tempted Eve to sinned in the garden of Eden. Again they sinned somewhere after the seventh day and before satan tempted Eve in the garden of Eden. They are mentioned in other parts of scripture all through the bible, where everything comes together in unison. The main of Genesis is the creation of ALL and the fall of man through satans lure. The fallen angel Lucifer was. The Angels in the beginning all had their post/ positions. they where all created Good until Sin was found in one of them Lucifer and when Lucifer/satan began to try and corrupt as many angels as he could to follow him. The angels who followed Lucifer to rebel and sin, fell with Lucifer and Lost their GOOD nature and their fallen nature was. Lucifer lost his position of special cherub angel and became satan the serpent of old. The rest of the fallen angels also lost their heavenly position and became evil, and demons. They committed sin after they joined Lucifer and then were disgraced and fell from heaven unto the earth plane. Because the 3rd heaven were God resides is Holy and Darkness cannot join to Gods Light 1 John ch1. After the ALL the earth was corrupted by Lucifer tempting Eve to eat of the tree of good and evil in the Garden of Eden, then all the earth got corrupted. God sent down what was corrupted to were corruption exists. Because corruption is a system of pride, jealousy, beguiling , confusion and corruption. Man who was created on earth was created good and still has Gods good seed in him (all are given a measure of faith) and still alive on earth to still have a chance to make the right choice to get redeem himself through Gods grace whereas the demons=fallen angels where already redeemed and in heaven when they chose to fall away from Gods Grace, they became completely and fully corrupted with no chance of redemption. Like you say they were in a higher position in the heavens with God, before iniquity was found in some and they fell from Gods heaven and grace unto the earth plane, where they are now. From what I understand, Lucifer and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven when they sinned. somewhere after the seventh day creation and before Lucifer tempting Eve in the garden of Eden.

Hi again Mr Michael Fernandez; Thank you for taking the time to have a look at it. I did try to read Hazards point of view and regarding the scripture verses he offered as proof. However there is this one scripture that hazard quotes that refers to some particular event. when i look at the verse, I thought it had to do about Noah's flood, but as Hazard points out there are certain things in those verses that well bring into question... that for me, I sure would like to get more clarity.: Perhaps you could examine this? 2 Peter 3:5-7; V. 5, For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: V. 6, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: V. 7, But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. Anyhow, i see you have responded in the post I am referring to, so i will go back and look there, so to keep this thread on track. Thank you for your time in looking into this as it has been perplexing me a bit.

Thanks

Good day Mr, Michael Fernandez; It seems many people have different understanding from even something coming out of Holy Scripture. As you seem full of energy and zeal to defend your belief about Holy scripture, i would be very interested in your feed back to Hazard topic;Lucifer's creation and rebellion. that thread speaks of creation existing before the six day creation period. Hazard has scripture to back up his claim, I wouod be interested in hearing you refute his claims. I also would very much like to believe as I always have that the six say creation was the beginning of all, but Hazard keep bring up a passage of scripture that can put into question that. I was just wondering what your response to him would be on that. Regards

Looking over your position, I perused the internet to find loads of different info/conjectures of what was before genesis . So much came up There are way to many conjectures out there that can just bring confusion to Gods Word . I rather except the beginning text of the story of Genesis in bible as the original beginning of existence of everything other speculative possibilities, not really mentioned in the book of Genesis=The Beginning.. Looking up your theory, i found several other like minded conjectures like yours stating also , that cities like Atlantis and Lemuria existed then where the fallen angels tried to play around with DNA and that in Gods anger all the neighboring planets where destroyed around the earth, as well as earth and Nebura the planet satan has his main dwelling on, was cast out of the solar system and is coming back as planet X and the reason the moon has so many craters in it is because of the events that occurred before Genesis ch1, and that Christ Jesus is really Lucifer... i mean people can read into and extrapolate verses from the bible, but that does not make it to be the correct analogical Truth. I don't know... All i do know because i have experienced this in my own life is that there is a God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. My life has transformed for the better because of Him working in my heart/soul and life. the way I have understood the bible so far has been clear and working also clearly in my life. The clarity comes from the Holy spirit of God working in and through us. He shows us and reveals to us his Truth. The Genesis story claims the beginning of existence in the six day creation time. the bible through the beginning of Genesis also confirms a firmament over the earth dividing water from above and water from below. the firmament is what contains the earth and separates it from the heavens. If there was existence before Genesis in the bible, would not the bible have said so and would have began saying this quite clearly in Genesis ? but it does not. 2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Isaiah 24 v23 then the moon will be(future) disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the Lord of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem and before the elders , gloriously

Hello again Hazard; Could this passage not be something that has yet to come? in the future? Like a nuclear disaster? Zechariah 14:6 In that day = (future there) will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. Isaiah 24 :1-2 Behold the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste, distorts its surface and scatters abroad its inhabitants ***2 And it shall be*** =future ? Isaiah 5:30 And it will growl over it*** in that day (future)*** like the roaring of the sea. If one looks to the land, behold, there is darkness and distress; Even the light is darkened by its clouds. all future events: Isaiah 5:30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of … Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not … Ezekiel 32:7,8 And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the … Joel 2:10,30,31 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the … Joel 3:15,16 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw … Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, said the Lord GOD, that I … Matthew 24:29,35 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be … Mark 13:25,25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven … Luke 21:25,26 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the … Acts 2:19,20 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; …

What does the bible say? Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1). We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of angels” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” (Revelation 12:3–9). Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the stars were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen angels, fully one third of the heavenly host. If the one-third number is in fact accurate, what assurance that is! Two thirds of the angels are still on God's side, and for followers of Christ, they are on our side as well.

This looks directly contrary to much of Yahweh's Word and His Righteous Judgments, including most of all Yahweh's Wrath in the last days, when it is not mixed or followed with Yahweh's Mercy for those it is directed towards by Yahweh perfectly. Hi Jeff; I don't understand why you would say that Mike 2 comments are contrary to Yahweh's Word. Is it not scriptural fact that Christ Jesus already paid the penalty for the sins of mankind on the cross of Calvary? It is finished. so in that way Mik 2 statement: the forgiveness is already been given is scripturaly correct But it is not EVERY mankind that will come to the cross and repent. so therefore when Mike 2 writes:"it cannot be received until there is repentance." that also is also scripturaly correct Repenting to God is acknowledging with true sorrow in our hearts of our wrongs and becoming willing to no longer go in our wrongs by asking God to become Lord and Savior of over our lives and be willing from that point onwards to turn our will over to His will by becoming subjugated to Him and His ways and no longer to the devil and his ways.

Repenting is recognizing we are miserable sinners and are willing to turn form our sins. The thing is that turning from our sins is done through the Holy spirit coming into us and working in our hearts, our lives. of myself i can do nothing , it is the Spirit of God working in me that does the work. I say this as i understand this, god love me yet in sin but waited for me to repent to Him, so that he could reunite with me, live in me and i in Him. People can repent and behave -good- without true Godliness or without having truly repented to God but having -form of godliness-. Am i a sinner? yes, and i have asked God to forgive my sins and ALSO to REMOVE my sins from me. As God removes sin from me, I become more and more HIS NEW CREATION. i become perfected through him but i am not yet completely perfected concerning my sinful nature that i have to contend with every day. But not from myself nor from my will but from God working ( by turning my will over to gods WILL) in my heart, transforming my heart to naturally do i no longer wish to do the things i used to do. however the changing into the New creation is a process of awakening. That is a process, but as long as I am a willing participant in the process, the healing change of heart and transformation keeps going forward.