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Yes agreed, just in my heart i feel the need to ask out of reverence and subjugation towards Him.

Yes isn't that meekness in subjugation?

From my understanding God can ONLY forgive someone who has repented. from my understanding it is conditional upon truly repenting, truly being sorrowful for our sins and desiring to change from our old sinful ways. Yes, It was finished and done ONCE and for ALL on the cross of Calvary. But not everyone comes to God to repent. ok so why do so for people and not for God? If we truly have repented towards God then we should also begin to become a new nature. with the new nature, the person we have done harm to will see a change in our hearts and behavior. If we demand forgiveness from people, we are playing an -ego game- also in some way. As you said it should not be demanded, it should be given. By reverence and subjugation we ask for forgiveness If the person is good, he will have already forgiven you. He will rejoice to see you have become a new person in Christ Jesus. Look to the parable of the father and his son (prodigal son) who took everything and squandered it to come back remorseful. His father gladly and freely received and forgave him

Hi Mike2, yes i agree with that. I guess for me the reverence and subjugation to God is in the asking? how can i explain by another example... Like being welcome into home yet asking for permission , doing so out of respect and consideration and subjugation?

Hello Hazard, I also just found another passage in the book of Revelation ch12:7-9 Revelation 12:7-9King James Version 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, ***that old serpent,*** called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Lucifer now satan after his fall from grace is referred to as that old serpent. so with that said, it could well be that is was lucifer who came to Eve and represented himself as a serpent, as he is refereedin Revelations ch12:7-9 to being a serpent of old. I think that Lucifer was created in the seven day creation period, just his pride got to him. As an appointed cherub by God to look over the high mountains of God as well as look over and cover in safety the Garden of Eden as the cherub that he was appointed to be. Lucifer in his musings, probably did no think it fitting for a superior being like him should bow down to man as he may have pridefully thought himself superior to man and perhaps was Jealous that God had mainly created the earth for the pleasure of man, having given Adam dominion over the earth. So Lucifer in his musings instead of wanting to serve and cover Eden and cover the Gods high mountain like the cherub he was appointed to be, thought to himself no , He could do better than that, and by better, try to get to do things higher and better than God by usurping Gods power. the one way to get to a position of power and control that lucifer/ satan wanted was by trying to usurp power from God . By trying to get as many angels as he could get to follow him and help him achieve his goal of usurping God power However God nipped lucifers plan in the bud by striking lucifer and 1/3 of angels down from the heavens plane to the earth plane. That is when God subjugated lucifer even more, closing lucifer off to the rights he once had as cherub to Gods high mountain and cherub to cover Eden. Clipping his position and making lucifer, satan, the serpent of old , subjugated to the earth . That is when Lucifer tries once again to usurp Gods power and decision, by getting to Adam. By getting adam also to be tempted down by pride and sin, and he did so through someone weeker and more vulnerable than adam, he did so though Eve. Lucifer was prideful and jealous that God created man ( a little lower than the angels-so lower than lucifer- and that man was given dominion over the earth to care for it . By Adam and Eves temptation through satan in the Garden of Eden, God used licifer,satan, old serpents plan of deceit to His advantage. God used satans downfall for His benefit of having man live on earth to either make the choice to find God back through repentance or to die in carnal willful sin, just like lucifer. To add most likely prideful insult to fallen lucifer/ satan, God made himself come down as man- Christ Jesus- to conquer sins power over mankind, so that lucifers plan of damning ALL of mankind would be no longer in his power but back to Gods power. Lucifer was jealous over man and what God gave man at creation which was dominion over the earth. Lucifer tried to usurp the position that God gave man and failed twice, once by trying to gather the angels to come with him, trying to establish himself higher and greater that God Himself and then falling and loosing his original position as covering cherub and then a second time by trying to get to Adam through Eve to fall prey to sin themselves. Christ jesus sealed the deal for Lucifer, by coming down as man and paying the ultimate price for man so that Lucifer could no longer destreoy all mankind like he wanted to through his prideful jealousy over mankind and God. At the cross of calvary it was finished. Christ Jesus vanquished satans power over mankind . God in His infinite wisdom made use of Lucifers downfall and that is: To make use of Lucifer as a tool to weed out the wheat from the chaff. Like the bible states in Genesis, the beginning of ALL creation happened in the seven day creation. The referrals in scripture that you mention pertain to Noahs flood and no from as you say, from satan having once lived before the creation time and ruled the earth. If God is Light and God is Good, He only allows things that he created to work out for His GOOD and final purpose. God weeds out the the wheat from the chaff. He did so with the angels and is doing so with mankind.

From what i understand of Gods plan of Mercy and Grace is that it is a free gift for all who come and ***repent to God.*** What is repentance before God? Is it not coming humbly before the Lord and ***asking Him for forgiveness?*** Christ Jesus Himself said: Matthew 4:17 17 From that time on Jesus began to preach,*** “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” *** Christ Jesus said: Luke 24: 46-48 46 Then He said to them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,*** 47 and repentance and the remission of sins*** should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. Matthew 3:8 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. Isaiah 30:15 15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:*** “In repentance and rest is your salvation,*** in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it. Luke 5: 31-32 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous,*** but sinners to repentance.” *** Acts 3:19 19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, Act 5:31 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to*** repentance*** and forgive their sins. Acts 20:21 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in*** repentance*** and have faith in our Lord Jesus. Romans 2:4 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to ***repentance? *** 2 Corinthians 7:9 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Acts 11:18 18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted*** repentance*** that leads to life.” Jeremiah 31:19 19 After I strayed,***I repented; ***after I came to understand, I beat my breast. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’ Luke 17:3-4 3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.” Acts 3:18-19 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. Revelation 3:3 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and ***repent.*** But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 2:5 5 Consider how far you have fallen! ***Repent*** and do the things you did at first.*** If you do not repent,*** I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Romans 2:5 5 But because of your stubbornness and your*** unrepentant heart***, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." To my understanding and please correct me if you think i am wrong, but to me , repentance is coming to God and asking Him for forgiveness of my sins and letting them die at the foot of the cross and be covered clear and made whole-wholesome- by the shedding of Christ Jesus' blood for and over my sins/sicknesses- turning away from my sins/sicknesses and turning my life over to Gods way of doing things, through His plan of Mercy and Grace found in and though His WORD.

It may not seem natural for the flesh of man to be capable of forgiveness towards himself or others, but through Christ Jesus and living in you through His Spirit living in you, it then becomes very possible to be capable of forgiving self as well as others. we are all types of " Ebeneezer scrooges" that need to be redeemed. Forgiveness of self and other can be a process but it is essentially necessary for your spiritual growth in Him. I would submit that if we cannot find it in our hears to forgive, we really need to look deeper into our relationship with Christ Jesus. Forgiveness is essential for christian growth to be. How amazing that god gift of Mercy and Grace is FREE. Its a free gift ubdeserved but available to ALL who ask for Gods Mercy and Grace. The sinner coming to the cross has to first understand the meaning of this. It is about asking for forgiveness and asking our Lord God to become Lord and Savior of our souls and lives. It about placing our sins and sickness at the foot of the cross and asking God through His son Christ Jesus to heal us from them. It is about asking God to come make a home in our hearts and live in us as we become willing to be holy sanctuaries of His indwelling spirit now in us. To become a christian is to follow christ Jesus and His examples and blue print for healthy , Holy living . A big part of becoming a christian is also letting go of SELF of EGO of PRIDE and let God BE in control of our lives as we become willing to turn our lives to the care of GOD. When we cannot forgive, we are taking the place of God, we are taking the place of His judgement. Only god can judge and hand out retribution, as only He alone is RIGHTEOUS. We are NOT GOD, we are sinners we are redeemed freely from our sins though God working in our hearts. but we are not god and never will be God. we as saint in him are subject to Him. the moment we choose to not forgive we are taking the place of God. Christ Jesus when He taught His disciples to pray He mentions repeatedly the importance of forgiving and mentions that if we cannot forgive our brethren, as God has so kindly forgiven us, neither will God forgive us. And why is that? Is is because if we have not understood our position in Christ nor have we come to understand His plan of salvation for us either. Matthew 6New King James Version (NKJV) Do Good to Please God 6 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.[a] The Model Prayer 5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b] 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.[c] 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Also for better understanding: The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant Matthew 18:21-35King James Version (KJV) 21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Genesis Chapter 3 :1-5 1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God indeed said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes shall be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." So the Lord said to the serpent: 14 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. So the lord said to Eve: 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain shalt you bring forth children; your desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over you. So the Lord said to Adam; 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou have heeded the voice of thy wife, and have eaten from the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: Cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Both thorns also and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou are, and to dust you shall return. So the serpent, Eve and Adam all seem to have been punished and changed after they decided to partake in satans suggestions to disobey God.

Boy o' boy, one really can be misunderstood here, when someone does not read properly what someone else writes. I am sorry if i am not expressing myself correctly as it seems i am being misunderstood. I was not agreeing with anything other than what is written in the bible, i was saying to Hazard as a way of keeping an open and respectful dialogue with him, that yes it make sense that satan came either as a serpent or possessed the serpent to do what he did to Eve. The bible is clear that is was a serpent that deceived Eve. Now, was it satan who came in the form of a serpent or satan possessed a serpent? the only thing the bible says is that the serpent had guile in it. Genesis ch3 v1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any other beast of the field which the Lord had made, And he -serpent- said to the woman... So if the serpent was already cunning, some kind of corruption had occurred before the fall of Eve and Adam. It makes sense that Lucifer now satan would corrupt the serpent first before corrupting Adam and Eve. We read up until chapter 3 that Adam and Eve are still innocent Genesis ch2 v25: They were both naked , the man and his wife,and were not ashamed. The shame came after they had sinned with by the serpents lure. In contest of the seven day creation period. The fall of Lucifer had to occur after the seven day creation and before the fall of Even and Adam. So Lucifer was fallen as the serpent was cunning. But according to the bible all was still good on day six and on day seven God rested. So then, the corruption of Lucifer had to have occurred after the seven day creation period.

Hi Hazard; That is an interesting theory, that the bible does not speak about. It only mentions the seven day creation of ALL that God created. So from the bible standpoint, I do not know more. This to me seems to be referring to Noah's flood? and not a pre-world before the one Genesis records in the beginning of the Bible. EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE) Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (7) By the same word.—Or, as some first-rate authorities read, by His word. The sense in either case is that the universe is preserved for judgment by the same power that created it. “His word” here does not mean any single utterance of God or passage of Scripture, such as Isaiah 66:15; Daniel 7:9-10; Malachi 4:1. Just as “the world that then was” was destroyed by water, so the present world is being treasured up to be destroyed by fire. Comp. Romans 2:5. Christ Himself, in a discourse which St. Peter heard (Mark 13:3), had made the Flood a type of the Judgment (Matthew 24:37-39). (See below on 2Peter 3:10.) “Unto fire,” or “for fire,” should perhaps be taken with “kept in store” rather than with “reserved.” http://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-7.htm

Yes so i don't see any reason to dispute on that, the only thing i was saying is that Lucifers' fall came after the six day of creation, because up until then everything was still good and that lucifer before his fall did have the right to walk- hover- around the garden of Eden.

Yes I like the way you explain it. Yes that makes sense that the devil-fallen Lucifer- would do that in order to get to Adam through Eve. Sorry if I made it sound that Lucifer now was reduced to being a serpent. That is not what I meant , I meant he either came in disguise as a serpent or better put like you mentioned, he convinced-possessed- the serpent to do his bidding so to speak with Eve in the garden of Eden. Lucifer after the fall was stripped of his beauty and reduces to some kind of ugly,entity, angel. satan and his demons can posses unsaved people and he can oppress Christians who need some cleaning up to do of their walk/relationship with god through His Son Christ Jesus. But what I was originally pointing out is that Lucifer before his fall from Gods Mercy&Grace was able to walk in the garden of Eden. that's the understanding i get from reading Ezekial 28:14

Ezekiel 28:14, speaks of Lucifer and the position he had before iniquity, (sin), was found in him He was a fallen creature when he entered Adams Eden because he accused God of telling lies and telling Eve they would not in fact die, but the would be like God's if they ate of the forbidden fruit. Satan entered Adams Eden with the intention of usurping Adams God given role to rule the Earth which Satan had lost when iniquity was found in him and he invaded Heaven to try and dethrone God. He did in fact succeed and Adam was cast out of the garden and an angel with a flaming sword was placed at the tree of life to guard it and stop Adam having access to it while in sin. Only a lier, the father of lies would accuse God of lying. In John 8:44 Jesus says he is the father of lies, "for he is a liar, and the father of it." God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the forbidden fruit they would die, Gen. 2:17, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Satan through the serpent said, Gen. 3:4-5; V. 4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: V. 5, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. From what I understand from reading Ezekiel 28:14 Lucifer ( the name given to the highest of cherubs before his fall) as an appointed cherub to Eden and Gods most high mountain was walking in Gods mountain as well as walking through Eden before his fall from Grace when God banished (Lucifer) now called satan to earth. Satan knew where Eden was because he had been there as a Cherub before his own fall from Grace. In the beginning of the sentence in Ezekiel ch28:14 it mentions how finely dressed he -lucifer - was, well that was lucifer before his fall, after his fall he no longer was beautiful, he no longer possessed the beauty God had originally given him. Satan was reduced to nothing and represented himself to Eve as a serpent.

no he was not yet a fallen angel when he walked in eden. Ezekiel 28:14 …13"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15"You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.… Lucifer had a right to earth even before he fell from Gods grace. I believe in how the bible explains things. After the completion of creation. on the six day, God said everything was ***good***. On the seventh Day God rested. -inactivity- Genesis 1:31 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. God The book of Genesis records that a personal, all-knowing, all-powerful God created everything that existed. The Bible emphasizes that the Lord is the Creator of ALL things. Nature Of God We learn something else about the character of God from the words used in Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew noun translated God is plural while the verb translated created is singular. This is the first indication in Scripture that God is a Trinity. The Trinity can be simply defined as follows: within the nature of the one God there are three eternal Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three distinct Persons are the one God. Jesus spoke of the three Persons of the Trinity. The fall of Lucifer came after the seven day creation period. In the beginning it was just God the Father,Son,Spirit. Look to John chapter 1. During the period of CREATION God created the universe, the heavens and earth. In that time frame God created the Angels. And that time frame is in the 7 Day creation, of ALL, that God created. Before that, it was Just God the Father, Son, Spirit. Genesis 1:31 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was*** very goodvery good ***. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. And on the seventh Day God rested. if Lucifer had fallen from Grace before the six day, then god could not say that ***ALL***was good. It is after that ALL was good that problems occured.

is that fact or theory? so if I go to a pro left handed site should I expect them to promote right hand NOT lol ,Goodness Gracious, no problem here with left or right hand... I had just happened to google "was Christ Jesus left handed" and this site came up and the article of the Turin shroud came up. i found it to be interesting so i shared it. nothing more... exiting then that really... God Bless

or that there is something perfect in either hand. :-) yea, well about Christ Jesus, from the shroud of Turin from the link I gave mentioned above, they say that in this shroud , that the dominant hand of Christ Jesus seems to show it to being the left hand and then goes on to say more...

Its quite intersting and no i do not take this for something other than like you mentioned, yes I believe so Yes i believe so. After reading , on the subject of synesthesia, they mentioned that some with this type of crossing see the same number but with a different color... But in truth, numbers, colors , music, they all are connected with one another. And (in God infinite reality) there are specific colors and sounds to numbers, there are specific numbers and sounds to colors and there are specific numbers and colors to sounds . God is definitely amazing.

which brings to wounder... Was Christ Jesus left handed? http://left-handersinternational.com/left-handed-articles/was-jesus-christ-left-handed/

Yes i agree.

Am a south paw and they just let me be like that in school, however my mom let my know the saying that its the devils hand... ( I find that to have been a cursed negative thing to say to a young mind). but I do, do things ambidextrously but my penchant dominant is my left side. That is quire interesting, so in what way does that manifest itself for you?

When I must I get up when duty calls, its early to bed and early to rise, but if left to my own, I tend to stay up later and get up later. But I do enjoy early mornings when i must get up, however it is not a natural thing for me to get up early unless there is absolutely something I must do at that time of day.

Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur Yom Kippur is "the tenth day of [the] seventh month"[5] (Tishrei) and is regarded as the "Sabbath of Sabbaths". Rosh Hashanah (referred to in the Torah as Yom Teruah) is the first day of that month according to the Hebrew calendar. On this day forgiveness of sins is also asked of God. Yom Kippur completes the annual period known in Judaism as the High Holy Days or Yamim Nora'im ("Days of Awe") that commences with Rosh Hashanah. thanks for pointing that out Shiloh. Yes Yom Kipper= Day of Atonement comes after, but not far after. Yeah that makes sense then , that Christ Jesus was born around sukkot time (the first night).

that is when I believe his birthday was. Yes I believe this to . Several years ago I was investigating when Christ Jesus was truly born and found some wonderful documentation indicating factual -facts- found in the bible of about when Christ Jesus most likely was born on earth. And it was all pointing to the month of September just after Sukkot and most likely at the time of Rosh hashanah=day of Atonement. this would make sense as Christ Came to free us and forgive us of sin and that He would be born around Rosh hashanah would make perfect sense. The little manger that he was born under could very well have been been a Sukkot structure that they put up at that time of the year. About Christmas, I celebrate it in remembrance of Christ Jesus as my family always taught us that. For sure the RCC took a pagan holiday and tried to replace most of it with a Christian celebration but Christmas time has returned to being a pagan holiday more than a christian holiday. I still look at christmas time a Christian holiday, but there are now very few who do. Most people celebrate christmas as a pagan holiday When you finally know all the history and truth about how things came to be, it changes ones perspective. However, I rather know the truth.

What is the condition of your heart? Hopefully on the mend in Christ Jesus my Lord and Savior. The condition of our hearts without God as a guide, can become quite lost. Praise God that He came for those needing a pĥysician and looking to Him for healing.

Sorry for the repeats, was having trouble with my computer, it began freezing up.