Riverwalker

and yet the same old snake keeps raising its head. My first "Born again Christian" church was a name and claim it word of faith church. A doctrine I never bought into and church I soon left.

I am firmly persuaded that no one can be moved off of the word of God if they have no ceded their responsibility to man I state the following in regards to any established Christians, newborns never having been exposed to the real truth, are excepted We are each responsible for working out our salvation and the idea of giving that over to a "shepherd" is very alluring. But if they fall into this temptation they are equally to blame. If we allow ourselves to be hurt by a man, then our trust was not God. There is one Good Shepherd, the rest are hirelings. John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. I cannot download the document

Short Answer: Because we sinned we fell from Glory we could not on our own regain righteousness, so it is by the obedience and sacrifice of Jesus Christ that God opened the way of our return , through Jesus Christ Long Answer The Book Of Romans Explains this very well. Here are some excerpts Romans 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 6: 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Ephesians 4 tells us that the purpose of the fivefold ministry, including that of the evangelist is to prepare US for the work of the ministry Ephesians 4: 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry

I am not a trained professional, and as such take my advice in that vein I would tell you not to be distracted by the waves that seem to be overwhelming your "boat" Jesus is with you. The problem is not the storm but the deeper issues that caused the DID, and that is what needs to be fixed. These things arise because of traumas you have faced, but Jesus can heal your soul and restore your peace. You don't need to go into the details, just believe in Jesus and trust Him. Let him heal you from the inside. And when the voices and the dreams come and disturb you, take authority over them and get them out of your life. 2nd Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not [a]carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. In the mean time seek what professional help you can, there are Christian Counselors trained in such things

Don't we all have a mission? Romans 10: 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? I agree we can set our own agendas, and goals and it always turns out bad....but how will they hear the truth, if we do not tell them?

They lied before the Holy Spirit, they were struck down and judged and went to hell. It was a lie they did not have to tell, no one forced them, but they sought to curry favor of the apostles and lied. Such judgment cannot escaped. The death of a guilty man does not redeem, it merely balances the books, And we are all guilty. Only Jesus was innocent and it is his shed blood that redeems us.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The truth of God's word can be brutal sometimes, especially when we are opposed to it. But it remains the truth, a truth that can be used to save or to batter. I tend to fall on the side of "let the truth be told and let the chips fall where they may". And yet everything must be done in wisdom and in love. 1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Matthew 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. It seems to me that that a balance must be struck, using the right word, in the right moment , in love. but without compromising the truth Many people compromise the truth, being concerned about offending people, but without the truth there is no salvation But one has to be careful, to remain compassionate, for with out love, the truth profits nothing. It is so easy to fall into the practice of telling the profitless truth And word sown on good ground produces much, but word sown on the stony ground avails nothing So how do you balance the requirements? So far I have come up with "consider twice and speak once" and "say what needs to be said, and then leave it alone, do not argue" Yes, the Holy Spirit leads us, but we are all spun out of the womb with differing gifts, so we all have a slightly different approach Romans 12 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. So again how do you approach the situation. To keep the balance between the truth that saves, the love that empowers and the wisdom to know when to speak.

While I believe God heals us, and keeps us from sickness, I do believe that He is far more concerned with our Spiritual health that which our physical health. 80 year or so of life on the rock pales in comparison to eternity with Him. I think this passage has much more to do with spiritual health than physical health. A case can even be made that the blindness He speaks of as he quotes Isaiah is spiritual blindness So while God can and does heal, I do not believe this scripture is addressing physical healing What it is addressing and is all about is deliverance Deliverance from death into life Deliverance from sin into righteousness Deliverance from oppression into salvation Deliverance from bondage into liberty

There are two reasons to share the truth with Atheists 1 is to plant a seed in them that someday might grow into faith 2. For the people who are listening (or reading) who might have their faith jostled by the atheist but you should not argue with them. No one was ever argued into being a Christian, Just give them the word, and let the word do the work

A top down view of the boot shows that the bone is still bone. This hardly passes the smell test of evidence. As to "Science Says" there is a set of factual , tested and verified facts which are established (non of which contradict creation) and then there is the subset of maybes and and surmisals. It is the first set I am referring to. This will be my last response to you, as there seems to be an impasse

I don't think anyone is dismissing the importance of doing good works /bearing good fruit. I think the only question is do they save and the answer is no We are not saved by works, we are saved to do good works. and if you claim salvation but those works do not follow then that supposed faith is dead along with your claims of salvation Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. James is talking about people who claim to a have faith, but show no evidence. Faith that does not see a change in who we are, is not a saving faith, just a metal ascent James2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead

Doh....lol. well I meant well

I was not aware of that, please include a link to the source of that information that I might familiarize myself with it. And then please enlighten me as to what science is.

Talk about your premonitions The Wreck of the Titan: Or, Futility is a novella written by Morgan Robertson and published as Futility in 1898, and revised as The Wreck of the Titan in 1912. It features a fictional British ocean liner Titan that sinks in the North Atlantic after striking an iceberg.

As long as you are seeking it is never too late to get Jesus to help you or save you. Perhaps you could tell us a little more It is late on a Sunday night, not a lot of people on right now

Either the dead diatoms piled up in that area over billions of years and for unknown reasons that layer pushed up to become a region in Southern England Or God made it that way Occam's razor says God made it that way

Just as we cannot accept evolution as fact without substantiated evidence, it is also wrong to blatantly make statements like the above with no biblical back up What We Know From The Bible God Spoke Creation into being God said it took six days Jesus said man and women were created in the beginning of God (which pins down the 6000 year mark as the genealogy shows) What we know from science If the fossils were naturally generated it would take much longer for the process to happen than 5000 years (time from the flood to now), by scientific standards they must be 10,000 years old or more. If fossils happened naturally (and as described) the earth older than the earth is older than 6000 years. Which if you believe God cannot be true. So you are left with two options God created the earth 4 billions years old 6000 years ago and the fossils are part of the history he gave it. My View The fossilization process happens much quicker than science says it did and dinosaurs shared the earth with men before the flood. Your View

Oh I think that train left the station long ago

I am not deep into theological labels, Looking at the situation such as fossils, which make no sense unless God decided to give the earth a history (since He created it old)

The point being He CREATED the earth Old....God doesn't use ANY parts. He speaks and it is. The earth being 4 billions years old made it perfect to sustain life This is God we are talking about, time to think outside the box (of our comprehension)

God never said he made it brand new, He just said he made it.

Why do we assume that God made everything new? Why could he not have create a 4billion year old earth (suitable for lie) 6000 years ago. When Jesus turned water into wine it was not NEW wine, but it was aged and made fine, AS IF it was aged, when it surely was not. Making God fit within narrow limits of our understanding, is just foolishness, the definition of a miracle is that which transcends natural law. Walking on water, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, cleansing the leopard, feeding 5000 with a boys lunch, all the way back to parting the Red Sea....and Creation God did not have to obey the physical laws he created to govern his creation. He says very plainly that He spoke and it was, and that it took six days. Why would we take man's word otherwise. All the so called evidence of evolution can be explained by God creating a 4 billion year old universe, 6000 years ago. All the dating would show a long time, the fossils were in the ground where he created them as part of the history of the earth And if you are looking for a gap theory, Jesus put an end to it in Mark 10: 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ Bottom line, God said how and when He did it, and God does not lie. To try and make the "wisdom" of man (origin/evolution) fit into the creation of God (Creation), is pure folly.

And that...is why we call it "Salvation"

We are born that way. We inherit our sin nature from Adam. Like produces like and since Adam became corrupt we are corrupt. Not that a baby can sin, but once we reach the age where the know right from wrong, we sin. Romans 5:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus By one man sin entered the world and by one very special man, sin (the punishment there of) was taken away from all and any who would believe Romans 5: 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [e]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [f]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [g]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)