simplejeff

Where did this come from , and why mention it without showing what they did to live daily in union with Y'SHUA and not remain divided if it occurred ? This could be a good example, depending on what you mean (where you believe the Christians in the N.T> were divided), and if people are willing to do what the Christians in the N.T. did to live correctly in union with one another and to live in union with Y'SHUA (as it is written they did, frequently in the N.T.). i.e. the "solution" to all the division people have posted about, the "solution" to all the problems Y'SHUA warned about, the "solution" YHWH provids IN Y'SHUA to all ecclesia everywhere who are immersed in HIM, born again by YHWH'S WILL, set apart by YHWH'S doing, put together as living stones by YHWH'S PLAN and PURPOSE in Y'SHUA. BTW --- this is all simple , according to YHWH'S WORD (the BIBLE), and is the results of YHWH'S PLAN working through Y'SHUA MESSIAH and through all the ecclesia called and chosen by HIM. Why does it seem complicated ? Why is this not achieved here, today, or around us where we live ? YHWH'S WORD provides the clear answer(s).

@Davida , I think you answered your question from the 28th two weeks earlier. David Wilkerson also has sermons online (if they are still available) warning strictly and fervently about the false gospel (widespread in the usa , and probably overseas in many places) of the so-called 'seeker-friendly' (new age). (easy search online) i.e. the biggest problem for many on earth is not the churches fighting, but the world churches uniting (both officially and unofficially) in a counterfeit opposed to all the true churches(assemblies).

You don't/wouldn't / have to ask anything, if you knew the truth and the source of the truth. There's never any unity of the ecclesia with those who remain in error willingly.

A few have asked about unity, and how to find it. This is a good and proper pursuit, when seeking YHWH'S KINGDOM. True, it is not found in the forum, or in the visible churches or groups. (they are too far affected in the world to have true unity). The only place to see is first and foremost in Scripture, as described by YHWH in HIS WORD that HE guards. There can be seen what unity in TRUTH, in Y'SHUA, is. Most people never get to see this is their lives. (how many people all over the earth, world wide, ever got to see and watch NOAH and his family do you think ? ) . LIkewise, how many converts did LOT make in sodom and gomorrah ? ? OH, the outlook is not that impossible today, as it was then. But it may be just as rare to find a righteous man. (someone calulated about 2 or 3 % tops; that might be accurate, but I think it is generous on purpose (as love hopes for the best) ) . So for those seeking unity, remember first you must find and seek the KINGDOM OF YHWH, as YHWH describes in HIS WORD. (THE BIBLE). Everyone else will be deceived on earth, including when they think they find unity, it being a false unity allowed by YHWH, again as described by YHWH in HIS WORD. How then can anyone find unity in Y'SHUA (JESUS) ? Simple, really. How is any one born again ? (not by human will or desire or ability at all)

There is little visible Christian on earth today. That which is false predominates, everywhere.

It is devastating, not just sad. Yes, in the world is not just a real spirit, but many spirits, and most not good. To be free from that power is only found in Christ Jesus. The greatness of His Salvation from the world and the loves and lusts of the world is so much mightier and pervasive and overwhelming and thorough as we find out more and more what we were saved from. (it is far far too much for any person to handle all at once).

Why ? Can you show that from the BIBLE, specifically ? That definition doesn't fit the BIBLE very well as far as can be seen most places. No, I'm not comparing any teachings to any other teachings, btw. I just showed that "theology" is often not lined up with nor based on the BIBLE.

Maybe not. After all, one theology says idolatry is okay. Another theology claims causing others to stumble is okay. And yet another theology claims being sons of disobedience is still okay. No pretending. -- "theology" is many things to many people. Almost all different, and almost all are wrong, but still that's what it is on earth. This definition (in some circles) might be well and good. Don't know. Doesn't matter. Most 'theologies' on earth all claim authority or accuracy or whatever. And most are still wrong. (like the op learned firsthand)

You've learned during lifetime that not everything taught is true. That's a most important lesson that many many people never learn, and are unwilling to learn. Little children following Y'SHUA, immersed in HIS NAME, don't have to know any theology. (study, education, professional gobbletygook, etc ) ... Grown adults all over the world NOT following Y'SHUA DO have to know about such things ! (not for life, no). They "have" to know for other reasons - deceptive reasons, man's reasons, a world system that says it is good and necessary to "know", then destroys and markets men's souls with "knowledge" that is not true. No theorizing necessary (for life). None at all. Simply trust the CREATOR. Trust HIS WORD.

This doesn't follow from what you quoted, and I don't know why you think the early church never had any problems from anything earlier in the thread or wherever. i.e. can you quote wherever you got that , and connect the dots for me ? (I don't want to guess at this point)

. Yes, the remnant people (obviously not nearly all the people). The people who the government has continually trampled, oppressed, exterminated, on whims - directed by the prince of the power of the air . Not only, not just the believers, as also the Native Americans, the Alaska Territory occupants (Eskimoes?) , even later the blacks (African-Americans?) , Japanese, youngsters (born and unborn), teens, young and middle age adults, the elderly, all and anyone "in the way" of "progress" or of someone's ambition...... Just like in Germany when young , old, and sick first were taken out of the way, then others..... yes, just like Corrie ten Boom openly warned us about from the end of the 2nd WW thru the 80's (and longer with her testimony in book and video format (TODAY) ) ..... i.e. OP: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is NOT in the BIBLE, NOT for the USA population goal, NOT the goal of the world (no, not at all). That is, the LIFE Y'SHUA offers is ETERNAL LIFE. The liberty is freedom from the penalty of sin, and from the power of sin, the flesh and the devil and the world. JOY , PEACE, and RIGHTEOUSNESS is with SALVATION, without measure, sheer grace from the FATHER in HEAVEN. (no matter that in the world we necessarily suffer much). EVERY GOOD GIFT is from the FATHER IN HEAVEN, FROM ABOVE. TRUST HIM. As YHWH permits

Those / that which is unspiritual and untrue cannot direct those who are alive in Y'SHUA , nor can they receive what those who are alive in Y'SHUA have to give. i.e. there's a whole other system, not based in Scripture, operating, and the believers are not deceived by it nor are we subject to it. Our answers likewise are not able to be accepted nor even understood. Same as throughout the NEW TESTAMENT. People make a choice, one system or the other. They cannot choose both.

. Y'SHUA said several things about TRUTH: "I AM TRUTH" "TRUTH shall set you free" "The world cannot know you, even as it does not know ME." (i.e. not just TRUTH, the world cannot know, but also YHWH, Y'SHUA and Ecclesia --- all hated by the world). "At all cost, get TRUTH" "Stop lying to one another" (HIS WORD to a group of already saved people). i.e. TRUTH is rare, like pure gold. It is also COSTLY. (re per what is written) And not found nor obtained by study. The COST? Y'SHUA'S PRECIOUSNESS. HIS LIFE. HIS BLOOD. The BENEFITS? Y'SHUA'S PRECIOUSNESS. HIS LIFE. HIS BLOOD.

Y'SHUA is KING OF THE JEWS, and is STILL JEWISH. YHWH'S PLAN was carried out to bring[offer] SALVATION to the JEWS FIRST, then later to the gentiles through the JEWS. There's practically nothing "gentile" about Y'SHUA - except HE offers[offered? (the door may be closed) SALVATION to gentiles who are willing. Now most all the gentiles are opposed to YHWH, and enemies of Y'SHUA. The leaders of all the nations have committed fornication with the enemy, and are all being gathered together AGAINST Y'SHUA , the countries and nations [practically if not actually] all opposed to YHWH'S PLAN of SALVATION, and YHWH'S WRATH that was stored up for many thousands of years will be poured out at the chosen time soon. PRAY for the PEACE OF JERUSALEM ! COME QUICKLY Y'SHUA ! Sh'ma Yisra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad

Yes, perhaps so. For now. Remember the vast majority of all nations, of all gentiles, reject not just Y'SHUA, but they reject true believers as well.

. Remember Y'SHUA said that just a mustard seed (the tiniest ) of faith is enough to raise the dead and to heal the sick, to have overflowing peace, joy and righteousness living in union with Y'SHUA and with other ecclesia immersed in HIS NAME. (just like in the NEW TESTAMENT assemblies). I've seen infants (little children in YHWH'S SIGHT, however old they were/are) with this faith, and grown scholars (supposedly alive 40 or more years) without enough faith to heal a cold. Go figure. "(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)" .....

YHWH never stopped pouring out HIS GRACE in Y'SHUA MESSIAH so that as Y'SHUA said ".... so that your joy may be full..." when these things happen..... has always been true ever since HE said it - for many believers all around the earth, abiding in HIM living HIS LIFE daily. (not living Paul's life, btw; although "imitating Paul as much as Paul imitated Christ" yes --- living CHRIST'S LIFE daily). Yes as above, with the warning of course that Paul gave : "Do not say 'I am of Paul....' " in the carnal sense (nor of Apollos, nor of any man, etc ) .... Yes, also, suffering is guaranteed to all who choose life in Christ Jesus on earth today. And perfect joy, peace, and righteousness is given freely along with salvation in Y'SHUA MESSIAH, just as it is written, to all believers no matter their station in life, or country, or whatever. Peace, Joy, and Righteousness that is a result of YHWH'S DOING in Y'SHUA , and is unaffected by circumstances.

. Remember: "God is a just and Holy God, sin and rebellion must and will be punished by the wrath of God. Our Lord is long suffering and patient, but look at where the world is today compared to past history. " Thus, the 'awakening' in Muslim nations is of a few in the country, a remnant, who turn to YHWH(GOD) , even under penalty of death, ..... and perhaps a remnant in "our country" (anyone's country, eh?) will likewise have a similar awakening.

Y'SHUA came to destroy the works of the devil, and took away the devil's power. Just like the first Adam, mankind continues to give power to the devil, to serve the devil, willingly giving the devil authority just as Adam in sinning gave the devil authority - turned over authority to the devil in other words. Those who are born again have authority in Y'SHUA'S NAME over the devil. Those who are not don't. (as seen often in the NEW TESTAMENT, and since then in the ecclesia). Yes, YHWH at the appointed time(s) grants the enemy authority to take believer's lives, as YHWH decided before creating the world and all life. The believers abiding in Y'SHUA have no fear of death, nor of dying, nor of suffering. Their peace and joy continuing every day is as written , a sign of their true faith and of their living every day, daily in union with Y'SHUA and with the other believers. So even though when Y'SHUA calls us to die, we die, it is with utter trust in HIM, and complete willingness and even joy, just like Stephen when he was stoned to death, and the Apostles and disciples when they were put to death for their faith. (in the BIBLE, and since then, right up to TODAY).

Notice the question is fairly often asked, yet almost never seen. Notice the body of Christ - Living Stones - Abiding in HIM, ARE ALWAYS in union with HIM - they cannot not be, any more than a foot or a hand can live on its own. Be becoming like little infants (or children). How ? By choice, (choose TODAY who to serve) and By seeking YHWH'S KINGDOM always, (seek ye first the kingdom of YHWH) and by being born again, and all this by YHWH'S accomplishment - not by the will of man, nor by the will of flesh, nor by [man's] blood,,,, i.e. > 'Not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh. nor of the will of man, but of YHWH' Thus the body (in union always, with Y'SHUA) is of YHWH , HIS WILL, HIS PURPOSE, HIS PLAN, HIS DOING, HIS ACCOMPLISHMENT, and is rarely seen or accepted by men. (as stated plainly in Revelation, Galatians, et al )

re : different uses or meanings or understandings of the word/ concept "theology" in this thread/ life in general, etc ===================================================================== I agree basically with this given the understanding that "Theology" is not what others have said for thousands of years or as recently as TODAY. i.e. see next below >> ===================================================================== ....cont. (next below) >> noting for here that "Theology" is seen much differently by pagan institutions, by unbelievers, and even by believers for much or most or all of their lives potentially, and most commonly "Theology" is simply not understood the same as here(these few posts). (we are at odds with what most people and most institutions calls good theology).

Hmmmm..... Now all of a sudden it doesn't matter what the previous point was. And dealing with the vital living Y'SHUA TODAY, not being influenced by what people do, is so rare but I don't know near enough to address any details of this, nor do the rules of this site we are posting on allow dealing with the details of that. (as several other posters likewise have noted recently). All we can do that I know of is encourage one another to keep seeking YHWH'S KINGDOM , never stop. If you know of or can find another site we can openly or privately discuss this, perhaps YHWH will permit continuing.

Even the horrible example of the usa government 'hires' people that are permitted to work outside the laws everyone else must obey (or face the penalties if caught). People in some jobs can routinely shoot other people and not even be charged with a crime. (every day this happens, btw - and many many other similar examples - nothing strange about this). Likewise even the tax that was to be paid, Jesus told a disciple to go "catch a fish" and take a coin out of the fishes mouth ! (how common is that !?!?) and go pay the tax with the coin, EVEN THOUGH the sons are not subject to the tax !!!!!! While Jesus walks(-ed) on earth, , and all of the apostles and disciples HE trained, they are subject to the FATHER in everything. 24/7/365 and on leap days ! (all the time).

Yet those who are simply, perfectly, truthfully "politically INcorrect" ?UNcorrect simply often without warning disappear ... ... ... and their threads/ posts/ books/ publications/ papers/ etc.... (always been that way)

I don't believe Jesus had anything to do with theology. Neither did YHWH in the OT. YHWH'S WORD is TRUE, PERFECT, EVERLASTING, FOREVER, TRUSTWORTHY, FAITHFUL, POWERFUL, and HE HIMSELF GUARDS TORAH. Always has, always will. As Jesus said "you must become like little children (infants) " ..... so also like as when we grew up if we grew up in a somewhat functional family at least -- as infants we WATCHED our parents, enthralled with them ---- they taught us to speak, to listen, to walk, to use a spoon, fork and knife, a pencil and pen, (these days a calculator/ remote/ tv/ video/ computer/ games) Everything our parents said we listened to intently with great joy and trusting them. (several posters have noted that they never knew any such children in their life; that is too often true, but even in a somewhat functional family the children until they reach whatever age where they have learned some distracting or even rebellious behaviour will do just as they have been taught joyfully and obediently. Of course, if the parents / guardians are living in rebellion[dis-obedience], the children learn that from conception thru birth thru the beginning of their lives. ) i.e. as infants we didn't "study" our parents or siblings - yet we learned everything from them. (side-note: since most families on earth are "sons of disobedience", that's what most people are used to and expect as 'normal', apart from grace and mercy and revelation from YHWH) Getting to the point : "relationship with YHWH" is not at all dependent on (and is most likely hurt by) "theology" more than most people realize, especially "scholars" (for reasons JESUS gave in the NT). We seek YHWH and seek YHWH'S KINGDOM (HIS rulership of our lives, entirely) by HIS GRACE ALONE - it is not a natural inclination of the flesh which is always at war with the spirit. "Showing love" is not possible outside of Y'SHUA MESSIAH. And WHO knows what is best for anyone, ever ? YHWH knows. ALWAYS. So DOING YHWH'S WORD is ALWAYS BEST. regardless of emotions or feelings. YHWH knows what is best for each and every individual , person, group, nation, and people everywhere. And we live by EVERY WORD that is proceeding from the mouth of YHWH. (HE IS ALIVE, always directing our lives when we joyfully trust HIM and rely on HIM) .... By sheer grace in Jesus !