choir loft

Your post reflects the church wide attitude of anti-semitism as well as a thorough misunderstanding of what Hebrews is teaching - or who wrote it in the first place. Additionally, your writing suggests you haven't devoted as much time to understanding what Hebrews says as you did in picking out pieces of scripture to support a false doctrine. Let's start with my last assertion first. You quote Hebrews 9:15 and state Jesus' death redeemed the SINs of Israel from the 1st covenant. You conveniently left out the first half of the verse which mentions the effect of the new covenant. Then you proceed to rewrite both scriptural intent and reverse your own words by saying Israel's sin wouldn't be blotted out until the second coming. SINs aren't blotted out, by the way, but that's another whole discussion. Which is it douge? Does the scripture YOU quote from Hebrews 9:15 say Israel's SIN is redeemed now or is it later on in the millennium? You don't seem to know, which is why your writing leaves the reader confused. Your other quotes, which you contend apply to the millennial period, are entirely misplaced and out of context to the subject discussed in Hebrews 9 - specifically the LAW (old and new). They do support a flawed interpretation of the millennium (the supermarket tabloid version, not the one in the Bible). Finally your statement is reflective of the general systemic attitude of anti-semitism adopted by the Catholic church and accepted by Protestantism. You aren't alone in this, btw. It seems few are able to contemplate an exegesis of any Bible scripture without insinuating some improper notion of the place of Israel in the divine plan of redemption. Proper references to the LAW also seem to be ignored either due to ignorance of it or a further demonstration of hatred of Israel and the Jewish people. Such an attitude doesn't have to be stated directly. It can be implied. A good example is your attempt to interpret Hebrews 9:15. Your post suggests you didn't even consult a commentary before you wrote your piece. Its bad scholarship, douge. We learn from study, not from repeating and reassembling religious slogans. May I suggest a reexamination of the Hebrews passage? Try looking at a complete passage (Hebrews 9:11-28) rather than cutting up God's Word into little bits of confetti to be used to justify an aberrant dogma. The section is an in-depth discussion of the LAW both in its first iteration and its newer one as well as Jesus' position as cohen hagadol. Incidentally, the book of Hebrews was written by a Jew for Jewish believers. One must devote at least a modicum of time to study what the Old Testament says about the LAW in order to understand what happened when Jesus died on the cross. We cannot be saved apart from the LAW. Finally, the offer of repentance and salvation is continually offered to Israel, not just once-upon-a-time. Those who accept God's grace become Jews in the eyes of God (Romans 2:29). Anti-semitic Christians teach that church membership is more efficacious for salvation than the blood of Christ. Such an attitude is indicative of the traditions of the pharisees rather than the freedom of GRACE and the LAW. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... PS Peter didn't write Hebrews. In fact, most scholars haven't a clue who did. It's a major point of contention these days. For instance, many scholars insist Paul wrote Hebrews or that Luke translated some earlier version into Greek. In other words, nobody knows. It's obvious when reading the text that a person who was quite knowledgable with Hebrew LAW wrote it - not a goyim (gentile). You should avoid references to the writer of Hebrews by naming names.

I believe you are correct in that it was during the convention of the PCUSA the issue of invalidating the Bible was raised and voted upon. I don't have information nor have I followed all the spin-offs of that denomination. My point remains, however, in that a general degradation of ALL protestant churches has eroded their validation of the gospel. They have become more political with in-fighting and disagreements separating into small powerless components that individually wander in their own directions - generally away from denominational positions as well as Biblical observance - generally toward permissiveness and aberrations of morality unheard of since Biblical times. AGAIN - when the Old Testament LAW is seen as having been abolished the entire foundation of God's work of redemption is forsaken. Licentious grace is embraced instead. Protestant religious philosophy is rotten to the core. People aren't stupid and will only buy the religious mumbo-jumbo for a brief time. After that, they go elsewhere......a generation lost to God and heaven. Most of these people are what is described as millennials. The massive spiritual continent of protestantism has degenerated into a few tiny islands of devotees. In Europe even these islands have sunk into the ocean of secularism - like a spiritual Atlantis. The Pope himself has admitted to it. What is needed is to identify and admit the problem, not to mask or deny it. Having identified the problem we need to return to an appreciation of Old Testament spiritual principles. Why? Because religious snake oil salesmen have so corrupted the New Testament that no definitive logical doctrine or explanation can be determined any more from their words. The Entire Bible must be considered to learn God's purpose and plan of redemption. For instance, why was it necessary for God to die upon the cross? Most Christians cannot answer this question in a way that is consistent with the context of the Bible. They only hear illogical and powerless religious slogans buzz words and humanistic sermons. Empty words don't inspire and those that don't discover a satisfying answer withdraw from Christendom never to return. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Which denomination? hmmmm Let's see which ones are "right thinking". Leadership of the Lutheran and Presbyterian denominations met in their conventions several years ago. One of the issues to be voted on was a redefinition of the Bible as A Word of God rather than THE Word of God. The redefinition renders the Bible equal to any other literature of mankind - essentially not something specially important. (I was advised of these changes by men who attended the conventions as well as physical documentation to prove it.) The Episcopal denomination has been in lock step with Rome for decades. I was present with leadership when decisions were made to abandon ignore and otherwise obstruct the Biblical assertion that one must be saved in the name of Jesus Christ. The true gospel, as far as Rome is concerned, is that church membership saves - NOT the blood of Christ. Therein lies the danger of apostasy and heresy. Methodists, once known for their instructive youth programs and logical step by step 'method' of living the normal Christian life, have deteriorated into combative and controversial issues at their conventions. Youth programs no longer instruct in Bible studies but are essentially a baby sitting venue for teens. Moral and ethical issues are ripping the denomination apart and very little emphasis is now placed on Jesus Christ or being His disciple. After years of membership, being married in the Methodist church and even laying the foundations of a new congregation and building, my wife and I left the church in disgust. The church is fatally infected with occult influences and sexual aberrations. The "of God" denominations such as Assembly and Church of denominations and all their spin offs have aggressively adopted doctrines of demons posited by Francisco Ribera in 1592. The Catholic doctrine is known generally as FUTURISM and departs greatly from the assertions of Daniel and Revelation that identify Roman Catholicism and Papal authority as being the anti-Christ BEAST and its leader. Ribera's doctrines were updated in the mid-19th century by John Nelson Darby and were widely accepted by the general Protestant population in America. Heresies such as the existence of hell, the rapture and the effect of the tribulation are all a part of the post-modern gospel - none of which is vetted by the general context of scripture. The LAW, which is the foundation of God's redemptive work for humanity, has been denied and displaced by a licentious form of grace. This subversion of Biblical intent has resulted in what many theologians of the latter twentieth century warned would be a growing tendency of protestantism to enter a self-destructive mode. Indeed it has, for every valid statistic points to the loss of membership of protestant churches. Jesus didn't come to abolish the LAW (Matt 5:17). He came to destroy SIN. Yet many evangelical churches, especially the TV evangelist types, embrace licentious SIN. There is no place for confession and repentance of SIN in the modern protestant church. Hence there is no way for prayers to be heard in heaven. (John 9:31, 1 John 1:9 & John 14:15) Anti-Semitism is on the rise in all protestant churches. With the single exception of the Baptist denomination the BDS movement, directed and maintained by aggressive Palestinian organizations, has been embraced and supported by very other Protestant denomination in America. (The Catholic church remains sitting astride the political fence on this issue.) Genesis 12:3 quotes God speaking to Abraham saying, "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you." Therefore protestant churches, which have joined the BDS movement against Israel, are bringing divine wrath down upon their own heads. (1 Peter 4:17) You wrote that "those who have not fully explored Scripture would consider those who have apostate/heretical" without understanding or admitting that the same denominations you assume to be holy and just and 'right thinking' are in fact apostate rebels opposing the gospel. When protestant churches deny the Old Testament in whole or in part there is NO full exploration of scripture at all. You know not of which you speak. I invite you to explore the situation with open eyes instead of closing them to the danger of apostacy. According to PEW and Gallup polls, 2010 attendance figures for protestant churches were 50% of 1948 levels. Projections of these trends should they not be reversed will result in a decline to 10% by the year 2050. Figures don't lie and attitudes of the present protestant denominations are in line with political correctness rather than the gospel as presented in the Word of God. Multitudes are leaving the protestant churches because of its apostasy - prosperity gospel, fake healing, and general hypocrisy. Where are they going? They are going to the Roman Catholic church, to Messianic Jewish congregations or simply backsliding into secular living. Denial of these FACTS won't solve the problem and won't do anything to glorify God. Accusing one who knows such things of being ignorant is a tinsel thin attempt at masking a very real present problem. One might even suggest such an attempt is made at the inspiration of the devil itself. Be careful who you charge with deception lest you be deceived yourself. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Christianity has been diluted to the point of extinction. Today it fulfills nothing of the intent of the fathers of the Protestant Reformation because protestants are in lock step with the Vatican. Today it has become hedonistic humanistic and anti-semitic. Many congregations willingly accept doctrines of demons and openly embrace occult principles and authority. Today it denies the LAW, which Christ died to fulfill (Matthew 5:17). Jesus came to destroy SIN, not to destroy the LAW. Today church membership is admitted to be of more importance than the blood of Christ to save. Tell such things to the normal Christian, who has probably never read the Bible cover to cover, and you will be called a heretic. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

American fanaticism has blinded even the most devoted of the followers of Christ. It has been so for a great many years. Peer pressure from secular society has diluted faith and duty to God. The answer to the tension of State vs. God is to follow Jesus and His example, never to twist scripture to support the political system. (*) I know not what other men choose to do, but for me I follow Christ by example. This is entirely contradictory to the current fanatical demands of American society. What did Jesus do? "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's" - Jesus as quoted by Luke 20:25 What portion belongs to the government? Jesus paid His taxes. (Matt 17:27) Jesus obeyed the civil laws as should we all. (Romans 13:1-2) What portion belongs to God? Everything else. We are commanded and expected to devote 100% of our mind heart and soul to God - NOT THE GOVERNMENT (Deuteronomy 6:5 - the 1st commandment). The throne of God is a seat for one, not a bench for a committee. If 100% of our allegiance is given to God, there is no room for allegiance to any flag. You will find no record in either the inspired Word of God or the secular records of Jesus' life where the Son of God pledged His allegiance to the flag of Rome, supported the troops, sang the national anthem with His hand over His heart or even prayed for the empire/nation. Neither do I. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Many Americans like to quote the familiar phrase, "God bless America", but will He indeed bless a nation that turns it's back upon Him? He will not. Many Germans of the 1930's liked to quote the phrase, "Gott Mitt Uns" which in English translates to "God is with us". Was God on the side of the Nazis - really? The answer to our dilemma will not be found in the next popular vote. It will be found when we sink to our knees in humble petition unto God for forgiveness.

Nice dodge of Luke 17. You quoted a large number of scripture to justify an errant interpretation of the destination of the dead bodies as armageddon. You did a lot of work, all for nothing. You only proved your own assertion wrong. No translation of Luke 17 states or implies the dead bodies are taken to Armageddon (which is a prophetic battle) nor are they taken to hell (which doesn't exist). I didn't write either, though you deliberately misquote me as well as the Bible. Your deliberate misquotations are required to support a false doctrine. This is no surprise because Rapture devotees are required to misrepresent any comment by opposition even when that opposition includes the words of Jesus Himself. I have desired a more open and honest expression of opinion. Have I labored in vain? I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. - Galatians 4:11 My specific point is that the dead bodies are removed to a place where carrion birds feast upon their flesh. The scripture is simple and its meaning not convoluted at all - except by those who put doctrine before the Bible and who use scripture to justify demonic dogma. Every heretic in history and every totalitarian state known has done the same thing. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19 Again, your references only certify my point - that those who are TAKEN are removed to a place other than clouds or heaven or the company of the righteous. This passage alone destroys the Rapture dogma originally invented by futurist Francisco Ribera and John Nelson Darby. Futurism or Dispensationalism as it is presently known is a ROMAN CATHOLIC invention. It is not indigenous to the Bible and it directly subverts the Protestant position opposed to Catholic domination of the Christian religion. It opposes the protests of the fathers of Protestantism and supports Roman Catholic heresy. You cannot ignore the assertions by the fathers of the Protestant reformation (John Calvin & Martin Luther to name a few) and you cannot formulate a logical argument against the context of scripture (that God sees His people THROUGH difficulty rather than REMOVE them from it). Rapture doctrine is the province of cowards in that it does NOT affirm faith in God's ability to escort the saved through problems. It is in direct opposition to the overall teaching of the Bible in this regard. You cannot simultaneously hold with Rapture doctrine and faith in Christ's intention to deliver. It's a logical impossibility full of obfuscation, which in turn allows it to flourish in the minds of gullible people. Do you stand with Christ or do you stand with Rome? I stand with Jesus because He has delivered me THROUGH trouble and in faith I believe He will continue to do so. I would not be alive and breathing today if He had not. Those that hold to the Rapture doctrine do so by justifying lies and confusion and who also seek to destroy faith in God who can AND WILL deliver THROUGH any and all tribulation. I've seen Him do it. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I accept that you may be far too young to have experienced His intention and ability to deliver. I assure you Jesus can - without vertical escape devices or lies. Trust in Him, not bogus doctrines of the devil. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. - 1 Timothy 4:1 Read the Bible and understand what it says - simply - without mask or reinvention. It has the power to save. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Luke 17 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. It's pretty obvious that the rapture is being discussed when Jesus refers to the eagles gathering to the body. The body is in the clouds. In order to justify your ideology you deliberately misquote scripture. Verse 37 is correctly written in the Bible as "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” (*) Why did you conveniently leave the correct words out? You left them out because they provide an embarrassing illumination upon your error. Are carcasses stored in heaven? NO. Do dead decomposing bodies appear in any description of paradise including your dinner party? NO. My point, my dear misguided brother, is that Rapture fanatics MUST DELIBERATELY misquote scripture and take its inferences out of context in order to justify an anti-Christian End Times doctrine of demons. Show me ANY verse in scripture that describes dead decomposing bodies in heaven. You cannot for there is not. What is the destiny of the taken? JESUS said they are taken to a place where dead bodies are gathered. In that place their bones are picked apart by carrions birds/birds of prey. You cannot escape the awful conclusion of the WORDS OF CHRIST, but you can indeed misquote them, misinterpret them and deliberately ignore their implication. Those that are taken go to DESTRUCTION. They don't go to a dinner party. It is counter productive to a growing faith and the attitude of cowards who refuse to accept tribulation in their lives. I say, BRING IT ON. With God's help I can get through anything. I welcome those things which sharpen and focus faith. I reject those things which erode it - including but not limited to the Rapture theory. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Some translations prefer the phrase 'dead bodies' while others, like the KJV, simply say 'body'. In all cases the phrase is accompanied by the modifier description of vultures/eagles. While it is possible to deliberately misconstrue the phrase 'bodies' it cannot be misunderstood when the final words are considered. Vultures or eagles gather upon carcasses like birds upon road kill. The textual image is certified by the inclusion of carrion birds. This in no way can be honestly interpreted as angelic beings or a heavenly banquet. It is the sad result of SIN and faithlessness. In NO translation is there a modifier or additional reference to imply the 'taken' of verse 37 go to heaven. It's quite the opposite in fact.

TheLight wrote: Refuting your logic with scripture First lets start with a proper translation, KJV. The correct word translated is eagles, not vultures. Luke 17 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Eagles are the same as vultures. You are dancing on the head of a pin. As a fine point of instruction, eagles prefer to eat things alive but will eat dead things if hunting is bad. Eagles eat carrion too. Look it up. Not for nothing was the national symbol of Nazi Germany an eagle. Not for nothing is the national bird of America the same. The natural tendency of eagles AND vultures is to assimilate dead and living matter into its being. The same is true as a description of demons. Neither eagle nor vulture are noble birds. According to the Bible they are unclean animals not worthy of respect or diet. You aren't using logic to examine your own quotation. "Where the corpses are" is a reference to the DEAD - to HELL. You refuse to accept the literal meaning of the quoted scripture. That's not my problem. It's yours. The only way to arrive at your conclusion is to corrupt the meaning and intent of God's Word. The saints are gathered to - hell? You are correct in your interpretation of Revelation 14, but you've used that passage to apply to a scripture that speaks of something entirely different. Again, you corrupt your own interpretation so as to justify doctrine, not to determine it. You are putting your dogma before scripture. Doctrine comes from scripture. Rapture fans put doctrine first and justify its error with snippets of scripture. Their logic requires false interpretation. The context of the Bible teaches that God does NOT remove His people from trouble. He walks with them through it. Remember Shadrach Meshach & Abednego? God walked WITH THEM in the fire. He didn't grant them a bye. Remember the Hebrews at the Red Sea? God split the sea and allowed them to walk THROUGH trouble to escape. He didn't lift them over it. The Rapture is a doctrine of COWARDS because it persuades the gullible that God will extract them from trouble when in fact He will not. Faith grows by walking with God through difficulty, not in hoping falsely for an early excusal. Therein lies the deception of the devil - to deny faith in God by means of false hope. If Christians are to be conquerors, then they must fight difficulty not seek ways to run away from it. God hates a coward. ‘But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.’ - Revelation 21:8 There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament. You can lay truth after truth before his feet. You can qualify your every position with cold hard irrefutable data. You can plead and scream and raise veritable hell, but before he will ever listen, he must first become aware of his own dire circumstances. As long as he views himself as safe and secure, as long as he imagines his chains to be wings, he will see no reason to question the validity of the world around him, and he will certainly never invest himself into changing his own deluded destiny. - Anonymous The doctrine of the Rapture, indeed the entire false interpretation of End Times events was originally submitted as a revised interpretation of Daniel & Revelation by the Jesuit order of the Catholic church some five hundred years ago. The brilliant Catholic apologist Francisco Ribera penned the interpretation, which has been followed by the Protestant church ever since - with increasing ferocity I may add. Today the Protestant church virtually marches in lock-step with the blasphemous and demonic assertions made by Ribera and his adherents. Today the Protestant church is a virtual echo of Catholic false doctrine and worship of its demi-god the pope. (*) In the mid-19th century, during a virtual tsunami of demonic spiritualism that swept over America, John Nelson Darby picked up on many of Ribera's interpretations and gave it a modernized polish and refurbishment - calling it Rapture instead of Futurism. His work was intensely popular as it remains to this day despite its vigorous defense of misinterpretation. (As a point of reference when googling this term, plz note that 'Futurism' generally refers to the Arts & Music rather than theology. A more refined google search under 'theological futurism" will yield more accurate results.) It should be pointed out to the reader that both the original fabrication 'futurism' and the more current revision 'rapture' were and continue to be demonic assaults upon faith. In order to convey futurism or rapture ideology one must submit the context of scripture to obfuscated interpretation and End Times ideology that God did not intend. A deliberate and literal examination of scripture, devoid of 1,500 years of Catholic attempts to muddy the truth will reveal much that is not popular today. Rapture fans absolutely refuse any reference to truth, be it in correct interpretation of scripture, references to historic attempts to overturn it in American history as well as religious history of the church as a whole. In order to falsely interpret scripture only a few verses are accepted as truth while all the rest require modification in literal interpretation; death doesn't mean death, fire doesn't refer to destruction, and carrion birds refer to angels rather than demonic powers. For these purveyors of false ideology the power of the comic book and the influence of the Holy See has displaced the truth of Holy Writ. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Blaspheme is defined as asserting one to be God who is not: "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

Jesus' words: Consider the prayer of Jesus who said, "...I ask that you (Father) NOT take them out of the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one." - John 17:15 Logic of scripture: Consider also this passage from Luke 17:34-37, "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: One will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together: One will be taken and the other left.” "Where, Lord?” they asked. Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” Rapture fans mistakenly assume those who are taken will ascend to be with the Lord in the air. If the passage is read according to its words without false assumptions, those who are taken will be DESTROYED by demons. Read it again for the first time. Where will they be taken? They will be taken to a place where vultures, carrion birds, gather to consume THE DEAD. This is NOT a nice place. It is a place where they will be devoured by spiritual carrion eaters. These beings are obviously not angels of God. What does this tell us about assumptions made of the Rapture doctrine? Logically it tells us the dogma is false. History History itself proves the doctrine of the Rapture, over five hundred years old, was created by the Catholic church to oppose interpretations of scripture by the Protestant Reformation. The theology is generally called "Futurism", but ought not be confused with the Futurist movement in the arts. If you google search, look for 'theological futurism'. In 1545 the Catholic church convened a Counter-Reformation at the Council of Trent. Look it up. The Jesuit order was formed during that period, which had as its commission to destroy by whatever means necessary the Protestant movement and its theology. Its leader was called 'the Black Pope'. In 1590, Francisco Ribera published a commentary as a counter interpretation of the book of Revelation. Futurism, as it was known until the mid-19th century, was its fruit. Basically the Futurist doctrine holds that NOTHING HAPPENED in world history from Jesus' crucifixion until some time in the distant future - our future. In point of fact, the book of Revelation is quite specific about identifying the kingdom of the beast (the Roman Catholic church) (*) as well as the removal of the pope by death and his return to eminence (Revelation chapter 13) In the mid-19th century, occult spiritualism swept across America. John Nelson Darby took advantage of its popularity and reformatted the papist doctrine of Futurism. He called its evacuation the Rapture and redefined Biblical references to the Tribulation so as to place it some time in the distant future. Despite warnings by the leaders of the Protestant Reformation, Protestants today march in lock-step with the demonic doctrines and blaspheme of the Roman Catholic church and its leader the pope. (*) One of the most heinous acts in violation of scripture is Sunday worship. The 4th commandment says to remember the Sabbath day, Saturday, and keep it holy. The Catholic church forced its members to worship on the pagan day of the sun instead. Those that refused were punished with torture and all manner of social ostracism. Today Protestants are in lock-step with Roman anti-Christ doctrine and follow the Pope into error by means of the theology of the Rapture, of Futurism and of deliberate violation of God's LAW. Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it." - Matthew 5:17 The LAW still stands, but the abomination of the Catholic church as well as Protestants who follow it deny God's LAW altogether. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. None of this will sit well with those who are comfortable with their SIN and error. It is true, nonetheless, and if the reader is at all motivated to seek God's honest truth in the Bible he or she will discover everything I have written here is true. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) BLASPHEME And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle and those who dwell in heaven. - Revelation 13:6 "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." - Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, Cities Petrus Bertanous. HEAD WOUND "One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast." - Revelation 13:3 Mortal Wound February 10, 1798 - troops of Napoleon Bonaparte enter Rome arrest Pope Pius VI and seize church property/real estate. Pius VI later dies in prison. Mortal Wound healed June 7, 1929 - The Lateran Pact/Treaty in which Benito Mussolini ceded 110 acres of property in Rome to establish Vatican City as a sovereign city-state. It also restores the Papacy. The modern authority of the Pope is thus based upon a decision by a fascist dictator, not God.

Thank you for being so precise. I need to add here that if a divorce is granted (by a civil court, not God) then the divorced couple are NOT allowed to join themselves to another for the rest of their natural lives. This is called adultery and is not sanctioned by Holy Writ. Divorce is not a license to hop into bed with someone else, though secular society seems to think so. In this time when God's LAW is ignored dissed and generally thought to be extinct even by Christians, it is important to remember one thing; THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. It is time to repent of our SINs and seek God's will in our lives. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Didn't know about the water, but its a point to be considered. News media and government puppets don't generally promulgate the fact that the COVID-19 virus is .03 microns in size. That's exactly the same as tobacco smoke. If you can blow smoke through your home made mask, then it won't protect you from the virus. It won't protect the general public from any infection you may be carrying either. On the other hand, the major effort of the media is to blow smoke at us 365/24/7. Social distancing and self-quarantine is still the best way to restrict the virus. that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. - Ezekiel 33:11 God is concerned with repentance, not reprisal. The COVID virus season is a time for a wake-up call. Whether human or divine in origin, the thing is upon us. It's killing us and it's making the rest of us crazy with fear and miserable with its threat. We like to think of ourselves as living in an advanced civilization, but just how advanced are we? Its taken very little to bring all commerce and activity on the entire planet to a halt. Its surprising how easy it was if you think about it. Prayers are called for in some cases, but will those prayers be heard? God does not hear the prayer of the SINNER. (John 9:31) Therefore it is of utmost importance to begin every prayer these days with confession and repentance (repentance means to not SIN again - ever). If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:9 Bear in mind scripture says we need to preface our prayers with earnest sincere and heartfelt confession and repentance. Only then will our prayers ascend higher than the ceiling above us. Repent. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Tithing is a strange subject, especially where Christians are concerned. Protestants like to (wrongly) state they're saved by grace not law. They brag they're not subject to GOD'S LAW. (*) On the other hand, church leaders will happily point to Hebrew LAW, which says one ought to cough up 10% of one's income as well as an additional 10% on top of that if they can't make the regular contribution. Nobody seems to have noticed the total lack of tithing as a subject in the New Testament. In that portion of scripture one is called to give according to the fullness of one's desire to give. On the other hand, if one makes a promise or (pledge) to give, God expects the last penny to be paid. In other words, give or don't give. Make no promises to give. If you DO promise, God expects you to fulfill your promise. Ergo, make no promises. Christian leaders also neglect to point out the manner in which Hebrew LAW required tithing to be accomplished. According to the book of Deuteronomy 14, one was to save the tithe over an entire year. At the end of the year, "Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice." (verse 26) In other words, party. Did I read that wrong? I doubt it. I betcha won't hear THAT preached in church. It's Biblical, though. Finally the hypocrisy of the subject of tithing needs to be pointed out. Christians like to falsely brag that salvation is free. On the other hand, once a man becomes a church member he discovers that he owes a religious tax (tithe) for the rest of his natural life. How is that free? It isn't if you follow church doctrine. I like to go back to Jesus to find my justification for my own giving. I give out of the abundance of my heart, not promising a dime to any organization or expecting any 'favors' in return. I don't feel obligated and I do feel the money was well gifted. As to the exact percentage of my giving - I prefer to keep that number between myself and He who knows such things. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17 If Jesus didn't abolish the LAW, then the LAW still stands. If Jesus came to fulfill the LAW, what LAW did HE fulfill? Do you know?

Don't understand your post. Are you saying adultery justifies divorce? In some states one may qualify for a divorce if the man or woman has engaged in an adulterous affair. That's secular law. It isn't Biblical. When Jesus was asked about divorce He reminded the Jews present that Moses had allowed divorce, but that God does not. (Mark 10:1-12) ANY sexual relationship between a divorced man or woman is adultery, even after the Mosaic certificate of divorce had been granted. So you see, I'm perplexed by your post. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. - JESUS as quoted by Matthew 13:19 Are you a roadside Christian? Do you believe everything whispered in your ear by the devil's advocates who preach the false doctrine of eternal torment? I have given adequate and multiple proofs for God's revelation of the afterlife, of final judgment and of salvation in the Name of Christ. You are correct in that you do not owe me or anyone an explanation. But you are deceiving yourself if you choose to believe a lie of the devil. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 Or don't - and continue in vain babbling despite the Bible's admonition to avoid such rubbish. shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. - 2 Timothy 2:16 You accuse me of false doctrine, but are UNABLE to prove otherwise. God's Word stands. Where do you stand? Certainly not upon its teachings. The Lake of Fire is the Second Death spoken of in Revelation. It is absolute destruction of sinners. Why do you continue to support SIN by insisting SINNERS are not destroyed? They are indeed if the Bible is to be believed. Why do you not believe the Bible? God WILL have an end to SIN. Either a SINNER will confess his SIN and REPENT of it AND never do it again - or - God will delete destroy and blot out the SINNER for all time, without parole bribe or hope of reversal of judgment. God only grants immortal life to the righteous. The wicked are judged worthy of death - meaning absolute cessation of any life at all including torment. The Bible NEVER says god will grant immortal life to the wicked. Study the Bible and learn from its pages. Do NOT rely upon religious slogans and buzz words for your ideology. They will lead you astray every time. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PROVE IT. Either the Bible is lying about ONLY GOD having immortal life, or there is no basis for assuming some part of a human survives physical death. (1 Timothy 6:16) That's an idea invented by the ancient Egyptians, btw. It's not in the Bible. Only God has immortal life. The last time I looked, no gods walk the earth, although a lot of people seem to think they are. Humans die. (Genesis 6:3a) Prove otherwise by means of scripture. Don't just sit there and assume your religious slogans and myths are real. They aren't. That's it and that's all. The FAKE DOCTRINE of hell is based upon several linguistic and cultural aberrations not common to Holy Writ. The Bible NEVER suggests God is the author of eternal torment. NEVER. If you believe Jesus is the equivalent of a Nazi commander ruling over a subterranean concentration camp, PROVE IT. Christians are VERY CONFUSED about their own religion. On one hand they assert God is love, while on the other hand they say God lusts after eternal torment. "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."- James 1:8 Which is it? Make up your mind. You can't prove a God of love and eternal hatred at the same time. You prove damnation by using pathetic religious slogans and buzz words. Here's what I can prove; The modern word Hell is "derived from Old English 'hel,helle(first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period." - Wikipedia The word 'hell' does not appear in original Greek versions of the gospels and epistles. Thus when the Greek was translated into English, the English translators used their idiom for the afterlife instead of the Hebrew original - SHEOL. You may consult several different TRANSLATIONS of the Bible to discover the difference is as I say. The Bible isn't inconsistent - the translators were inconsistent. Sheol is the original Hebrew designation for the dead. It's a simple term which simply means 'grave' or 'pit' whereas pit and grave are holes in the ground where dead bodies are placed. The modern word Hades is a reference to Greek myth, not Biblical teaching. Hades was the pagan god of the underworld. Thus Hades was a person, not a place. Look it up. Learn something. You believe otherwise? PROVE IT. When the Greek text of gospels and epistles were translated into English the definition of the greek demi-god was added and twisted to suggest an underworld kingdom where people were punished. Hades, the Greek demi-god, didn't punish the dead either, by the way. He was more like a modern doorman or gatekeeper to the underworld. As St. Peter is described in popular myth as the gate keeper of heaven, so Hades was the gate keeper of the underworld in Greek myth. NEITHER MYTH IS IN THE BIBLE. The Hebrew word gehenna is a reference to a city dump on the south side of Jerusalem in Jesus' day. Fire and maggots were continually active in the dump as they are to this day in every waste facility around the world. References to eternal fire and worms suggest the fires don't go out. Fire is a reference to absolute total consumption of that which is exposed to it. Death is the cessation of life. In order for Christians to justify the false doctrine of eternal torment they must adopt false demi-gods, pagan religion and perversions of the meaning of simple words like death and fire. In order for Christians to justify the false doctrine of eternal torment they must reject or confuse clear and concise Biblical references to the Second Death made by Christ Himself. The devil, not God, is the author of confusion and there is a lot of confused rubbish in the doctrine of eternal torture. God does not torture. Men do. God kills and the ultimate extinction is the judgment of the Second Death described in Revelation's Lake of Fire. The fire burns eternally, but that which is cast into it is destroyed completely totally and without possibility of reconstitution - EVER. You are sincere about what you believe, but on this point you, like most Christians, are terribly confused about your own religion and its premise regarding the destination of the wicked. They die. The destruction of the kingdom of Sodom is a pattern. Look it up. Not even ashes remained of those who were destroyed. The same fate awaits those who shall be consumed by the Lake of Fire. BUT blessed be God who has chosen to grant of His immortal life to some - to those few who will accept it and live by it. This is the glory of the gospel that excited the first Christians. The Lake of Fire is utter destruction. The wicked die alone. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

DEATH. NON-EXISTENCE. Total and utter destruction of the wicked. You have arrived at the edge of truth. The flip side is that God, who alone possesses immortal life, has decided to grant immortal life to man - provisionally. The provision is denial of SIN and its works followed by acceptance of Christ in our lives. The word gospel means good news. The Good News is that DEATH isn't the end of things. God has promised immortal life to those who accept Him. Everybody else, most everyone in fact, is destroyed following physical death. Jesus Christ is not the Nazi commandant of an underworld version of a spiritual concentration camp. God kills. God does not torment - as men love to do. The saints will not sit in bleachers in heaven and applaud the suffering of the wicked below. The wicked will be nowhere. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

There is no hell. You didn't get hell from the Bible. It's a Catholic doctrine. Because Protestants march in lock-step with Vatican policy, they believe it too. DEATH is the reality. FIRE is the method of destruction of the unjust. There is no eternal torment, no everlasting crock pot where sinners are on low boil forever. The natural condition of man is to die like an animal. (Ecclesiastes 3:19) God's mercy has been granted to mankind in the sharing of His immortal life to those who abandon SIN and its works. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" - Genesis 6:3a Only God is immortal. There is no part of human nature that survives physical death. "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light" - 1 Tim 6:16 that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

You do not understand the doctrine you are defending. From the beginning I've said the doctrine of eternal torment was CATHOLIC in origin. It is NOT Biblical. The Roman church adopted much of its dogma from pagan sources, including the myths of the afterlife and Purgatory. Protestant churches continue to march in lock-step with Catholic dogma as YOU have demonstrated. I challenge you to prove otherwise by means of historic reference, context of Biblical intent, and verbal CORRECTNESS of the meanings of words. Don't twist words to defend eternal torment. Use them in their proper meaning and you will be forced to abandon the myth of hell. It isn't Biblical. If you buy one part of Vatican doctrine, you must buy it all - or at least be aware of it. My purpose here is to shed the light of accurate interpretation of God's Word as well as to share historic references to Catholic heresy. NO interpretation of the Bible can hope to be truthful and accurate when the meanings of simple words are perverted. The ONLY way you can prove hell is by demonic confusion of simple word meanings. To do so is to defend the lies of satan - to obfuscate the intent of God's Word. Death means cessation of life. Nowhere does the Bible suggest otherwise. Nowhere in human culture, except in occult perversions, is death supposed to mean a godless existence beyond the grave. Fire means destruction - absolute total and irreversible for all time to come (forever). Nowhere does the Bible suggest otherwise, but occult myths such as those promoted by the Catholic church, pervert the meaning of it to monetary purpose (ie: donation$/spiritual bribery to get their people unlocked from purgatory). Your references to resurrection of the wicked is one that is TEMPORARY. The Bible does not suggest otherwise. When Jesus resurrected Jairus' daughter, Lazarus and the young man, He gave them a TEMPORARY resurrection. They later died again. So it is with the Second Resurrection. The First Resurrection is of the Just - those whose names are in the book of life. Justified persons are given an immortal PERMANENT resurrection. The Second Resurrection is of the wicked - those who will be sentenced to final utter and total destruction BY FIRE - the Second Death mentioned in Revelation. You wrote, "nobody has to bribe God" if they've chosen to accept Christ. I didn't say bribery was a legitimate method of salvation, but the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory and eternal torment DOES. The blood of Christ means nothing to them except as an oblique method to divert attention away from the Lordship of Jesus Christ. (*) There are NO varying degrees of punishment in hell. (Mostly because there's no hell to begin with.) Your assertions are extremely confused and unfocused. They are this way because the doctrine you're defending is itself an obfuscation from the mind of the Enemy of us all. God is not the author of confusion, but satan is for sure. If hell is eternal torment, what difference does it make how hot the furnace may be? Judgment is not a kitchen stove with one setting for cookies and another for London Broil. Think about what you are writing and defending! You do yourself a disservice when you parrot incoherent dogma & myth. The five cities of the kingdom of Sodom were utterly and permanently destroyed by fire. The varying degrees of ruin you mention, but do not quote, come from Luke 10:12, Matthew 10:24, Matthew 10:15 & Mark 6:11. These are ALL judgments upon cities, not people. Go back and read the words. That's why I submitted the references here. There are judgments against nations, against cities and against individual persons. Judgments vary IN CONTEXT, but the one I am trying to focus attention upon is final destruction of the WICKED and immortal life granted to the JUST. No nation or city built by the hand of man is EVER granted immortal life. Their duration and degree of prosperity upon the earth is limited - always. No immortal life of any sort or quality is granted to the wicked. The wicked are entirely consumed and destroyed for all time and in perpetuity. God hates SIN and those who love SIN. He means to have an end to it finally and totally. Men have the choice during life to abandon SIN and all its works, to embrace God's righteousness and make it their own. If man does not, then God will destroy the man completely - deletion, elimination and destruction without hope of bail parole or amnesty. That which is destroyed is NEVER reconstituted. Why do you seek to defend SIN and its works? Why do you wish to see the wicked preserved when even God promises they will be destroyed? Why do you apologize for Catholic perversion of simple words and the intent of grace to save? You are doing it because you've been persuaded of a lie and refuse to accept truth even when presented in simple terms. Death means cessation of life. Fire means absolute destruction. Those words mean nothing else unless some pagan occultist perverts their meaning to something God did not intend. Consider the love of God and the Good News (gospel means good news) that He will grant HIS immortal life to men as well as a way to obtain it. He didn't have to do that, you know. God will have an end to SIN. Either man will abandon it voluntarily or man himself will be destroyed in it. That is the Biblical message. To suggest otherwise is to defend an occult lie of the devil and a prosperous method of the Catholic church, as well as certain Protestant denominations, to collect bribe money. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) In Catholic imagery of Christ, the Son of God is ALWAYS represented as a helpless creature. Jesus is represented as a helpless baby or a dead guy on a stick. Jesus isn't God on earth, the Pope is god on earth. "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

Which Bible are you referring to? Yours? You are no expert, friend. It is grossly inappropriate to insult someone else's relationship with Christ. Your Biblical illiteracy and attitude of spiritual superiority is disgusting. The Bible does NOT speak of eternal torment. Show me chapter and verse. You cannot because it does not - not at least unless you spin it according to Catholic doctrine. The Bible speaks of utter everlasting destruction, which is totally different. The pattern of the destruction of the kingdom of Sodom is a precedent - a pattern. (Jude 1:7) How many of the residents of Sodom suffer the pains of fire today? None, because they died suddenly and for all time in the fires of divine judgment. The dead don't keep dying. They die and that's it. Kapish? Go to a Christian bookstore or Amazon's web site. In those places you will find many different translations of the Bible. Why are there so many? Have you ever asked yourself that question? The reason is that the ORIGINAL words were Hebrew in the Tanakh (Old Testament). Tradition tells us the New Testament was written in Greek. In the 5th century, the entire collection was translated into a single language for the first time. That first collection language was Latin and it was called The Vulgate. Look it up and learn something. Some scholars now believe the entire New Testament was also originally written in Hebrew. They've come to this conclusion by the frequent use of Hebrew idioms which pass across translational barriers. Have a look at the gospel of Matthew. Hebrew idioms have been transliterated into English where almost every sentence begins with the word AND. It makes for difficult reading because that's the way Hebrew is intended to be read originally. It's a Hebrew idiom, which when translated into English, word for word, makes for difficult reading. Greek isn't like that. Are you familiar with the Greek language? Look up the meaning of the word idiom and learn something. The first time a Bible translation was commissioned in English it was called THE GREAT BIBLE and was a conglomeration of the Vulgate (Latin), Greek and German translations. The most well known attempt to translate directly from Hebrew and Greek into English resulted in the King James Version. Unfortunately the KJV is riddled with English phrases and cultural English idioms. For instance, the pagan anglo-saxon word hel was used to substitute for the Hebrew word sheol. Hel or hell as it came to be known was a pagan reference to the underworld, while sheol has a completely different meaning. Look up sheol and learn something. Other words such as Hades (a pagan god of the underworld - a person not a place) and gehenna (Hebrew for 'city dump') were also mistranslated from the original. There are very many translations of the Bible from the original into English because English isn't the language of God's chosen oracle - the Jews. Look up the word oracle while you are busy learning other words. Or don't and remain illiterate. Look up the word illiterate as well. It's not intended as an insult. It's a statement of learning level - a fact. There are many translations of the Bible because modern scholars have learned that idioms have complicated the text. Worst of all is that Catholic dogma and anti-semitism, which is in lock-step with Protestant doctrine, has insinuated itself into the Bible to promote the agenda of those who do not approve of the Bible's intent. The most well known of these is the Scofield Reference Bible. It's notorious in that it promotes several false doctrines while presuming to be an accurate translation. I wouldn't touch that book with a ten foot pole. Neither should you. The story goes on, but the bottom line here is that one should study study study. When illiterate people fixate themselves on popular religious slogans and buzz words they do themselves a disservice. They forsake study for the lazy comfort of familiar inaccurate phrases, myth and prejudice - not truth. God did not intend this when He gave us His Word. Gleaning truth requires work and study - something few people devote themselves to these last days. that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light - 1 Tim 6:16 ONLY GOD is immortal. The Bible says so. The natural tendency of humans is to die - body, brain and spirit. "they die just like animals" - Psalm 49:12 49:20 "humans and animals have the SAME DESTINY" - Ecclesiastes 3:19 NO the spirit does NOT continue forever. Nowhere does the Bible say such a thing. It is, however, inferred by misguided illiterate folks who believe pagan myth over Biblical truth. Your assertions are VERY confused because they are based upon illogic and illiterate understanding of the Bible. "human beings are not just bodies, just souls, just spirits," you write. I need to interject the correct definition of terms here. You write souls, but don't know the meaning of the word. Greek philosophers defined the human as having three components; body mind and spirit. TOGETHER this tripartite collection is called a SOUL. On the other hand, the word soul can be interchanged with spirit provided it's used in correct context. You did none of it, probably because no one has instructed you on what context means. Look up the meaning of the word context and learn a useful definition. The illogic of your assertion begins with the statement a human is a collection of three parts - a soul composed of body mind and spirit. Correct! You then destroy your own logic by stating later the body and mind are destroyed, but the spirit goes on. Separation of the three is unBiblical. Jesus taught the whole thing can be DESTROYED - body mind and spirit together. The Bible promises a resurrection of the righteous soul - ALL THREE COMPONENTS. The righteous are resurrected as a complete soul - body mind and spirit. Not a disembodied spirit. How do we know this? Jesus demonstrated the unity of body mind and spirit when He was raised. He wasn't raised a spirit only. Your assertion adopts pagan illogic and myth. Your words prove NOTHING. You wrote: "So, where would you warehouse eternal spirits separate from God and his people? Bible says lake of fire. Anyone who can read sees this." Apparently you need to revisit the book of Revelation and READ it again. The lake of fire described in Revelation is called the Second Death, not a storage facility. Fire destroys. Death implies a cessation of life. Go to a cemetery and see how many people writhe in pain in the grave. Not one because they're all DEAD. Twisting words is the devil's business. God is not the author of confusion. Nobody, not even God, warehouses anything in fire. Roman Catholic doctrine was adopted from centuries old pagan myths about the underworld - the afterlife. None of it is Biblical, but Protestants who march in lock-step with Vatican dogma continue to accept Roman rubbish as gospel. Hades, which was originally a Latin translation of the Hebrew word sheol, was originally the pagan god of the underworld. Hades was a person, not a place. Look it up. The false translation was re-translated from latin to English, the first version of which was the King James Bible. It stuck because illiterate people didn't bother to check it out. Hell was originally an anglo-saxon (pagan English) word hel, which also meant the underworld. Look it up and learn something. The KJV used the ancient pagan version of hel to represent sheol also. Compare different translations of the same verses. Look it up and learn something. Now is also a good time for you to investigate the meaning of the Hebrew word sheol. It will tell you much about the meaning of Jesus' words as well as the apostles - all of whom were Jews. The word gehenna, when employed by Bible translations more indicative of correctness, refers to a garbage dump outside the south gate of Jerusalem in Jesus' time. Garbage thrown into the city dump was consumed by fire and maggots - as it is to this day. The garbage is consumed, but the flames and worms continue. Do you actually know anybody who LIVES in the city dump? The idea of a storage locker or closet for the newly dead comes from the Catholic version of the Apocrypha. In the Catholic dogma the newly dead are shut up in a closet with a name tag on the door. The tag reads, "Purgatory". The doctrine of Purgatory was further developed and popularized by Dante Alighieri in his book THE DIVINE COMEDY. The work was intended as satire, but because it was such a fine story it was adopted as truth by church leaders and laity alike. According to Catholic/Protestant myth, spirits of the dead (not souls) are locked up until BAILED OUT by BRIBE money given to God via the local priest. They do it to this day. Look it up and learn something. Yes boys and girls the whole sad subject of purgatory and eternal torment is really about spiritual extortion, not salvation or damnation. It's all about the money. Money, money, money. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Can God be bribed? He cannot. (Deuteronomy 10:17) If you buy a slice of the afterlife bovine excrement shoveled out by the Roman Catholic church, you must buy it all. But the Bible doesn't say anything like that at all. ONLY GOD IS IMMORTAL. who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light. - 1 Tim 6:16 Humans die. "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" - Genesis 6:3a THE GOOD NEWS is that God has chosen to give of His immortal life to those who REPENT and CONFESS their SINs and accept Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior. ONLY THE JUST get to live forever. Nowhere does the Bible promise immortality to the wicked. Men torture. God does not. You ascribe the villainy of mankind to God? You err wickedly in your assertions. Jesus isn't the dungeon master of a subterranean concentration camp. The Bible says the wicked will be utterly and permanently destroyed without hope of parole or bail. God hates SIN and has promised to destroy it and all its works, including those who love it. God has promise to grant immortality to those who deny SIN. How about concentrating on the hope of immortal life in Christ Jesus and the FACT that He will not allow the Second Death to touch those who are His own? THAT is something to really holler about. Yes it is. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Beasts in the Bible are properly interpreted to refer to systems nations and organizations unless otherwise stipulated. Therefore, the reference to sheep and goats is a reference to nations - those that are favored in God's eyes and those that are not. The same is true of references to the sea-beast and the earth-beast in Revelation 13. Those beasts represent a religious system and a nation - specifically the Roman Catholic church and the United States. Since it is impossible for a nation or system to experience pain and torture, the beast punishment is figurative, not literal. When eternal punishment is referenced with regard to Final Judgment, it connotes God's hatred of those entities, which will be for all time in perpetuity (perpetuity means forever). God's hatred will be forever, not the punishment. The punishment will be final. Therefore the goats will be destroyed and the sheep blessed. The precedent for this also appears in the books of Exodus and Leviticus. The Bible is self-interpreting. Read it, not the internet. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. God has stated on numerous occasions in Holy Writ that He hates it. God has stated that He intends to make a permanent end to SIN as well as its works. Therefore, man must either CONFESS and REPENT of his SIN and end it or God will end it by the man's death - physically and spiritually. God WILL have an end to SIN. God will not allow SIN to continue after physical death. If He did, it would be a continuation of that which God promised to end. The pagan notion of an underworld dungeon does not appear in scripture anywhere. Give us chapter and verse if you can, instead of twisting scripture to occult purpose. How long does the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" described in Matthew 13:42 last? That snippet of scripture you picked doesn't tell us. The realization of imminent spiritual death on the part of the unjust may last a blink of an eye or a moment or two. Death will come and many that suffer it will weep EVEN BEFORE it arrives. I have seen it in fact. Many also rant against God for bringing them to that point in time. GOOGLE is a search engine, not a Bible scholar. It will yield results for any search parameter. If you search for the root word you will discover the following from Wikipedia; The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon period. Thus even Google reveals the word hell is pagan in origin, not Biblical. Why do you refuse to acknowledge your own references? I submit you are so eager to dismiss God's Final Judgment upon SIN and those who love it that you can not and will not admit the Bible's promise of divine retribution for it - that God WILL have an end to SIN - forever. As usual, those who love SIN and seek to justify and continue satan's lie that "you will not surely die" (Genesis 3:4) are living a false hope and promoting a demonic doctrine. Those who love SIN continue to subvert the Bible's clear and unequivocal statement that he who sins shall die. (Romans 6:3). Death is the cessation of life. How simple does it have to get to persuade sinners? Fire destroys all that is cast into it. Nothing long survives the touch of flame, including a sinner sentenced to the Second Death in the lake of fire. "What the fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away" - Doobie Brothers WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES song of the year 1988 Study the Bible to learn its consistent teaching about life death and eternal reward and punishment. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! - Galatians 1:9 The soul that sins shall surely die. - Ezekiel 18:20 Death means cessation of life both physical and spiritual. This is a simple idea, not rocket science. To be subverted by demonic purpose the simple meaning of words MUST FIRST be redefined. This is true in religion as well as human politics. Beware those who reverse the meaning of words. They are liars one and all. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

The principle of TEMPORARY resurrection is demonstrated in the gospels. Read about Jairus' daughter, Lazarus and the young man that Jesus raised. All of those were TEMPORARY resurrections. They died later on. So too will the resurrection of the unjust be at the end of the age. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unjust, will be for Final Judgment. GOD HATES SIN and He despises those who have rejected His loving overtures all their lives. At the Final Judgment He will cause them to depart from His presence into the Second Death - total utter destruction and annihilation. GOD does NOT resurrect the unjust with "special bodies" other than for Final Judgment. Nowhere does the Bible say God gives immortal life to the wicked. NOWHERE. CONSIDER if you can that the false doctrine of hell, as well as your own denial of divine judgment against SIN, is a futile attempt to establish life for the dead. - If the unjust are given life, then Christ died for nothing. - If the unjust can bribe God to relieve them of their punishment, then Christ died for nothing. Only the blood of Christ can save. Why did Jesus die upon the cross? He died so that those who REPENT and CONFESS their SIN and accept His lordship in their lives could receive forgiveness and immortal life. Those who reject Christ all their physical lives get NO second chance for repentance after death. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; - Genesis 6:3a The word MORTAL refers to creatures that are naturally subject to death - all of us in other words. At death the opportunity to REPENT is lost. Final judgment is FINAL. I am really curious why you are so eager to defend SIN and the works of the devil. I am curious as to why you wish to subvert the work of Christ upon the cross and to substitute a demonic version of the afterlife. You write as though you have no idea what Christ's sacrifice for SIN was about. This is typical of illiterate Christians as well as the secular world. The opportunity to accept Christ ONLY happens during physical life. NOWHERE does the Bible suggest otherwise. The idea that choices continue after death is pagan in origin and Roman Catholic in practice. It is wholly a demonic lie. You CAN NOT bribe God to forgive you after death and you CAN NOT hope to remain alive, even a torturous life, after death. Only the just receive immortal life and then at the first resurrection. Stop approving of SIN. Stop making allowance for it. It is not Biblical. REPENT or die in your SINs. Today is the time for salvation. - 2 Corinthians 6:2 that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Again you are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of simple words. The fire burns continually. That which is thrown into it is destroyed utterly. There is no hope of reconstitution forever. That which is exposed to flame is utterly destroyed. It does not burn forever. The fire burns forever, not the fuel. Why is this so hard to understand? It's not rocket science, you know. Gehenna, which was an actual dump outside of Jerusalem, burned continually because of the constant deposit of garbage thrown into it. The worms or maggots that lived in the dump constantly feasted upon the detritus of the city SO AS TO CONSUME IT ALL. It should be known also that gehenna was also the place where ancient Hebrews once worshipped the pagan god Molech. The statue of the god was filled with fire into which the people threw their infants. This is a popular practice even to this day, where 'civilized' people murder their children for the sake of convenience. The worm and the fire go on - the waste is destroyed. The judgment upon those who deny God until their dying breath is the same as deadwood. They are thrown away and destroyed. Life is a gift to the righteous in Christ. The doctrine of hell is a lie - suggesting life of an unpleasant nature, but life nonetheless. Nowhere in the Bible does it promise God will grant life to the wicked. No indeed. It says they will be utterly destroyed and removed as were the residents of Sodom. Do they still suffer from fire or were they burned once and for all? THINK. that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Did you read anything I wrote? HISTORY, especially that of the Roman Catholic church, is replete with references to the underworld. SECULAR BELIEF, which has insinuated itself into Christian dogma, suggests a form of immortal life APART from divine judgment. NO my friend, the Bible emphatically does NOT speak to eternal torment. Is Jesus Christ the dungeon master of torments in the bowels of the earth? Show me in the Bible where it says he is or that he has fashioned such a place. You will not find it because it does not exist. Do you read the Bible or do you simply acknowledge the rumor of centuries? The Bible is God's honest truth, but it HAS been improperly interpreted. If not, then please explain why there are so many different translations. In one translation the words of Jesus are quoted as referring to sheol or gehenna, while in another at exactly the same verse it will say hell or hades. The latter references are pagan in origin, while references to sheol and gehenna are strictly Biblical. This is not due to inerrancy of the Bible, but to flaws in the translation process. Any serious study of scripture will reveal these differences. This is why the Bible itself encourages us to "study to show yourself approved" (2 Tim 2:15) Do you study the Bible at all or are you content with rumors and doctrines? In one notorious version of the Bible, the Scofield Reference Bible, aberrant doctrine of Catholic Jesuits is introduced and reinforced by chain link references. It isn't a study Bible so much as it promotes Roman Catholic doctrine. My purpose isn't to cast aspersions upon the Word of God. My purpose is to share knowledge of the history of the unBiblical doctrine of eternal torment and of the history of its transmission thru the years. It's there for anyone to discover if only they will have a look. This isn't something I've cooked up on my own and it isn't something intended to hurt one's faith. Indeed it is intended to reinforce faith. I NEVER said the Bible was full of lies. I DO say that liars like satan use the Bible to teach falsehood and SIN. From Genesis chapter 3 to the present day it has been true of the enemy. For if there is a hell, then there is NO judgment of death upon SINNERS and Jesus died on the cross for nothing. If there is a hell, then Almighty God - the standard of righteousness - can be bribed against His own intentions andjudgments. The Catholic doctrine of hell says there is no real fire and no real death and that the wicked can bribe God. Is this not the vary antithesis of Biblical truth? Think. Read. Study. Don't just sit there and repeat rubbish you learned from Hollywood and comic books and classic mythology. Read the Bible. It uses simple words like 'death' and 'fire' to describe the fate of the wicked. Satan twists the word 'death' to mean something other than death and 'fire' to mean nothing more than hot water. If one examines the Bible for consistent references one will discover death means total end of life and fire means absolute destruction. Sodom was destroyed by fire, not burned by hot water. Sodom will never rise again forever. It is not burned forever. Does not the Bible also say that ONLY GOD has immortal life? How then can anyone assume in truth that mankind has it? We can not if we read the Bible correctly. Jesus came to give life to those who repent of their sin and accept Him. Nobody else gets it, especially the wicked who deny Him to their last breath. Is the Bible inconsistent or is the interpretation confused? Think. that's me, hollering from the choir loft....