Heleadethme

God does all things well.

I believe He spoke the word.......and then patiently watched over His word to perform it. (no matter how long it took) He is the ancient of DAYS. Very ancient. Very, very ancient. And very very powerful.....all power in the universe is HIS....as the bible even says. So amazing, we can't even begin to comprehend.

In Genesis, it is written that "God said let the waters bring forth...." and "the waters brought forth.....". And also "God said let the earth bring forth...." and "the earth brought forth.....". Just wanted to point that out. That doesn't seem incompatible with a concept in principle of evolutionary development.

Here are some other passages where the bible uses the words "formed" and "created": it seems those words can mean developed or grown, since these same words are used in the bible for being formed/created in the womb..... In other words those words don't have to mean literally sculpted (out of clay/dirt) or instantaneously created. The word "formed" to me even seems to IMPLY a process of development or growth. Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, Psa 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. Isa 41:19-20 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it. Isa 48:6-7 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. Eze 21:30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.

Just to interject a thought here, that "good, bad or neutral" mutations are often relative to the environmental conditions at the time and place the creature happens to be living in. I'm not sure that creatures including humans that have survived to our era necessarily means they are "fitter" in a general sense. I just have not heard that discussed anywhere and thought it might be worth a mention. It's possible I've picked up a wrong impression but I have a sense that "fittest' in an absolute kind of way is always assumed when it comes to evolution.

Everyone who knows the Lord has been given their measure of the Holy Spirit. Many have not begun to learn to rely on Him though, they are still relying on man and/or self. And even those who have been weaned from the milk of course are always still learning and being tweaked and corrected along the way. I wouldn't necessarily argue with everything because God's word is multi-dimensional...His wisdom is manifold...and His voice is a voice of many waters....there can be different depths and heighths and breadths and lengths to what the Lord is saying prophetically...spiritual language. (Even where Rev speaks of the "voice of many waters" is telling us more than one thing about His voice in itself.) I'm just going to just plunk these scriptures down, which give us insight into Israel's sorrows/labour pains in case it's helpful to anyone: Isa 66:6-7 Hear that uproar from the city, hear that noise from the temple! It is the sound of the LORD repaying his enemies all they deserve. “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Jer 4:30-31 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers. Hos 13:12-13 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid. The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children. Now we see why Jesus spoke of sorrows/labour pains when He was warning and prophesying of Jerusalem’s judgment and the tribulations to come a few decades later: Mat 24:6-8 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. So yes Israel gave birth to the Son of God, but before her labour pains, which came when she was judged by the Lord later on, culminating in the destruction of Israel/Jerusalem and Temple in 70 AD.....fulfilling the Is. 66:6-7 prophecy of her judgment (as also Jesus Himself was warning and prophesying of her judgment in those Matt. 24 scriptures and elsewhere....since as well as being the Messiah, He was a prophet to Israel.....I think we sometimes might not really take that into account).

So heartbreaking. Whatever all the reasons are in the natural realm, it's hard not to see that America is losing her hedge of protection and favour that comes only from being under God. Goof-ups, confusions and mistakes as well as corruption, are all things not uncommon with pagan countries...expect to see this type of thing and other judgments only increase in the west unless the nation repents from sinning and turns back to God.

Nicely said IMO, Sister. All creation is groaning and waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. But I don't think we can dismiss how these OT prophecies were fulfilled already on one level concerning earthly Jerusalem/Israel...earthly Zion. She gave birth before her labour pains came upon her (Is. 66:7) in 70 AD, giving birth to the Son and His church body before being judged....and the early believers following Jesus' prophetic instruction about fleeing Jerusalem, came out of her and were spared the destruction/judgment to go all over the world bringing the gospel. And now have been wondering whether we're also looking ahead to the same pattern of prophecy being fulfilled a second time involving the church this time, when the true faithful believers are spared the judgment of the compromised harlot church when the beast (earthly kingdom) turns on her. Principle of "to the Jew first, then the Gentile"....? And since Israel serves as an ensample and warning to the church. If this is true, it's important to understand and acknowledge the first fulfillment regarding Israel if it is to effectively serve as a warning to the church.....kind of foundational for how it will be fulfilled concerning the church. Hosea 2 = Revelation 17 .... Adulterous wife in bed with the world and its kingdoms, until the world turns against her. (Adulterous wife is what Jesus spoke against: serving two masters....and it was Israel's sin of "halting between two opinions" when Elijah was calling Israel to repent of trying to serve both God and Baal at the same time. That is the lukewarm state and why the Lord would rather we even be completely 'cold' rather than being spiritually adulterous. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. This is so deceptive a snare and widespread in the western church now. We all need to examine ourselves truly, and I certainly include myself.)

As far as I understand it, I think "choosing" is not quite the same thing as being willing. All we brought to the table was willingness when God came calling. And He often paves the way through life circumstances that help us to become willing. David prayed for "a willing spirit". When the Lord comes to us we can either resist the Spirit or yield to Him (being willing to believe/receive/obey Him). I think it was to the Jewish religious leaders (or the Pharisees?) that Jesus said, "Ye do always resist the spirit." I might be willing to suffer for His name, if it were to come to me in the will of the Lord, but that doesn't mean I would generally deliberately go out and choose circumstances that make me suffer on purpose. Willingness is passive, it's a yielding, whereas choosing is active. And when you think about it, how could a lost soul really "choose" Jesus unless they first knew Him?

Well I would agree my opinion contradicts how a lot of people are interpreting scripture, and I thought along the same lines not long ago as well. But looking at Daniel 7, hasn't the fourth beast already come and gone...Rome? It's a matter of historical record that it has. Wasn't Jesus already presented to the Father after He ascended to heaven and received back the glory that He had before the world began....during the time of that fourth beast reigning? And didn't the saints already receive the kingdom at that time too...."it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom"....."the kingdom comes not with your careful observation".....as we are more than conquerors (victors) through Christ and go from strength to strength, from glory to glory....."behold I give you power...over all the power of the enemy". These things are by faith not by sight. Satan was defeated at the cross and dominion wrested from him and restored to Christ and His church back in the first century, and makes sense that it was fully and officially accomplished when the old covenant system of Temple worship passed away with finality in 70 AD. Worth considering whether that was when Jesus was officially crowed and came to receive His kingdom/dominion officially, so to speak, visiting with His wrath/judgment upon what had sadly and horrifically become corrupt and decaying...Jerusalem/Israel and Temple of that time. Her judgment had been prophesied to happen....OT prophets and Jesus Himself prophesied and warned of it. And fulfilling also where scripture says, that Israel gave birth to the Messiah before her labour pangs came upon her. Daniel was surely prophesying of the coming Messiah and His gospel and kingdom, as all the prophets and all of the OT was foretelling and looking ahead to. The testimony of Jesus IS the spirit of prophecy. There is nothing greater......I think the modern church has lost the sense that THAT was the climax of all scripture and all of history. Nothing less than the mystery of God from the foundation of the world! I know there are many who believe they have Revelation all wrapped up and tied with a bow, but one thing I've learned about the Lord over the years is that there are things He likes to reserve for Himself and surprise us with....like He reserves the right to be God......so things don't always go according to the way we think and imagine (carnal mind). Wouldn't hurt to reserve judgment about some of these things in Revelation especially, and wait upon the Lord. Anyway those are my thoughts.

The bible does refer to the god of this world, the spirit of this world, and the kingdom of darkness. All the divers earthly kingdoms have been serving it ever since the fall of man.....and at various times throughout history one earthly kingdom happens to be the top dog of them all, having the most power, wealth and influence than the others. Eg, Babylon, Rome, Holy Roman Empire, Great Britain, and now the USA in our current era. What people are envisioning with terms like New World Order and One World Government is very specific. They are envisioning a specific scenario that may or may not ever come to fruition. Specifically they are envisioning a tyrant (the beast) who rules the entire globe by force. In my opinion there are reasons why we might question this scenario.

Just coming into this thread and haven't caught up with what others are saying. I think it would be good to ask, Does the new covenant replace the old covenant? Because Jesus said at Passover that the cup they were drinking was the cup of the new covenant of His shed bloood, and that the bread was his body given for us. (And He only said "as oft as ye do this"......He didn't specify or command any special day or weekly or annually, etc.) Passover necessitates the sacrifice of lambs every year, even if you are only using a shank bone.......whereas the Lamb of God has already been sacrificed once and for all and communion is a re-membrance of that.

So very sad, and mass shootings becoming more frequent. People need the Lord, He is the only answer. We need to really pray for God to move. That the light of the gospel would shine in the darkness. For lost souls to be saved, and that holiness would be restored to the backslidden and those who are captive under false gospels. God has to send chastisements to wake us up, unfortunately. This happened to come to my inbox this morning: WHEN REVIVAL Ran EPIDEMIC -from 'Glimpses' #41. Sometimes it is during the days of hopelessness and despair that revival comes to a people! So it was in the middle of the nineteenth century. In the United States, it was a spiritual, political, and economic low point. Many people had become disillusioned with spiritual things because of preachers who had repeatedly and falsely predicted the end of the world in the 1840's. Agitation over the slavery issue had bred much political unrest, and civil war seemed imminent. A financial panic hit in 1857. Banks failed, railroads were bankrupt, factories closed, unemployment increased. Many Christians realized the need for prayer in such dire situations, and prayer-meetings began to spread around the country. In the lower Manhattan section of New York, a Dutch Reformed church had been steadily losing members; they hired missionary Jeremiah Lamphier to reverse the trend with an active visitation program. However, he had little success in awakening church members by his visits, so in September, 1857, he rented a hall on Fulton street in New York City and advertised its availability for prayer meetings. Six men assembled for that first prayer meeting on September 23. Two days later the Bank of Philadelphia failed. In October the men began praying together daily; on October 10 the stock market crashed. The financial panic triggered a religious awakening, and people flocked to the prayer meetings. Within six months 10,000 people were gathering daily for prayer in New York City alone. The movement explodes: Other cities also were experiencing a renewed interest in prayer. In Chicago, the Metropolitan Theater was filled every day with 2000 people assembling for prayer. In Louisville, several thousand came to the Masonic Temple for prayer each morning. Two thousand assembled for daily prayer in Cleveland, and the St. Louis churches were filled for months at a time. The newly formed YMCA also played an important role in holding prayer meetings and spreading the revival throughout the country. When media actually helped In February 1858, Gordon Bennett of the New York Herald gave extensive coverage to the prayer meeting revival. Not to be outdone, the New York Tribune devoted an entire issue in April, 1858 to news of the revival. News of the revival quickly traveled westward by telegraph. This was the first revival in which the media played an important role in spreading the revival. Prayer everywhere The prayer meetings were organized in the cities by lay people and were interdenominational. Unlike earlier awakenings, prayer rather than preaching was the main instrument of revival. Tents were often set up as places where people could gather for prayer, introducing a custom followed by later revivalists. The meetings themselves were very informal -- any person might pray, exhort, lead in a song, or give a word of testimony, with a five minute limit placed on each speaker. In spite of the less structured nature of the prayer meetings, they lacked the extreme emotionalism which some had criticized in earlier revivals. This was the first revival beginning in America with a worldwide impact. From the United States the revival spread to Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, Europe, South Africa, India, Australia, and the Pacific islands. In geographical and proportionate numerical extent, the revival of 1857-1860 has not been equaled. Even ships coming into British ports told of the revival in America. Ireland soon began to experience a prayer meeting revival as well, with crowds becoming so large they had to meet in the open air. When John Cairns preached in Belfast in May, 1859, he had never before seen such eagerness to hear the gospel or lives which had been so transformed by the revival. He said: "Nature does not contain any epidemic so like to Christian conversion." When Andrew Bonar heard of the work in Ireland, he increased his prayer for a revival in Scotland. In his diary of July 3, 1859, he wrote, "Again this night in sorrow of heart over the terrible carelessness, indifference, deadness of this 'valley of dry bones.' O my God, come over to Scotland and help us!" Within two months Andrew Bonar found himself in the midst of revival in Scotland. On September 10th he wrote in his diary, "This has been a remarkable week: every day I have heard of some soul saved among us..." All classes became interested in salvation, backsliders returned, conversions increased, and Christians desired a deeper instruction in spiritual truths. Families established daily devotions, and entire communities underwent a noticeable change in morals. Not celebrities but ordinary people praying. Similar changes were noted as the revival spread to Wales, England, and beyond. There was an absence of great names connected with the revival; lay people in prayer were the prime instruments used by God in awakening the people. The preaching, which in many areas had become too intellectual and lifeless, now concentrated on the truths of the gospel of Christ and His cross. The results of the revival of 1859 in the areas of evangelism, missions, and social action continued for decades. Many who became Christian leaders during the second half of the nineteenth century were greatly affected by the revival-- such as D.L. Moody, William Booth, C.H. Spurgeon, and A.B. Simpson. As James Buchanan of Scotland summarized, it was a time when "new spiritual life was imparted to the dead, and new spiritual health imparted to the living." Getting a people spiritually ready to face tragedy? The revival of 1859 had similar effects in the North and the South, and may have prepared many Americans spiritually to survive the horrors of the war that broke out a few years later. The awakening continued into the Civil War period, a great revival occurring in the Southern armies in 1863-64. -Source- gospelcom.net/epages/chinstitute.storefront/en/product/1041 -- YES! - You have permission to post these emails to friends or other groups, boards, etc - unless there is a Copyright notice above which says differently. To subscribe, please send a 'subscribe' email to- prophetic@revivalschool.com See our website and comments board- http://www.revivalschool.com/

Yes....the parable of the talents where the Lord warns that even the little someone has could be taken away from them. I have a sense from scripture that salvation is not something we're to take for granted. We aren't to just sit around relaxing on our laurels. We're told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We're admonished to run the race so as to win it, and that those who strive for the mastery are not crowned except they run lawfully. There are those to whom Jesus will say, "Away from me you who practice lawlessness" even though they were doing works for God. Fruitless tree being cut down, etc. Lots of things in the word to spur us on and keep us from falling asleep at the wheel.

By the time I was in my late teens my family was only attending Mass on special occasions, which suited me fine and I didn't bother with it at all once I finished high school. But in my late twenties the Lord out of the blue gave me a desire to go to church one day at Easter time, didn't know why I had that desire, I thought it was strange because I was agnostic at the time. And I had a definite 'instinct' not to go to a Catholic church knowing there was nothing real there for me...so I called up an uncle and aunt of mine who were born again believers and had witnessed to me and asked if I could accompany them to their church (happened to be Brethren in Christ). It happened that they were holding a gospel preaching 'crusade' that Easter season, and long story short, the Lord got hold of me and revealed Himself and the gospel in a miraculous way and put me in the path of righteousness. Hardly stopped crying with joy for a solid week, I was so happy there was a God after all, and that I knew Him. I did leave that church after a while though because they were cessationist and I knew that what God had done in me was a series of miracles including deliverance from nicotine addiction, and that He still does miracles today according to His word, however, was so grateful to be saved and to know Jesus! "Let us therefore go to Him OUTSIDE THE CAMP, BEARING HIS REPROACH" seems to be kind of a theme with me for many years. I have nowhere to lay my head, so to speak, no where on this earth to call home spiritually. Like Abraham, seeking the city that is above. The Lord led me out of the churches and called me to "come out of her" and more recently has shown me that His will for His church (people) is the simplicity of Christ, which I keep trumpeting now and then like a broken record. That necessitates firstly a change of heart, because religious-ness comes from the flesh and mind of man......all the usual stuff....ambition, control, seeking to establish our own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ, outward appearances of things, etc. The scriptures say "except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain." He only builds on His own foundation of Christ....which includes His simplicity. How did Jesus do things when He was on earth? He SIMPLY went around doing good and preaching the good news with SIGNS ACCOMPANYING.......no special robes, no special rituals, no special titles, no special building, etc., just real life with the Holy Spirit. "Wherever two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst." So simple...and all the various parts/ members of the body of Christ simply functioning in their gifts, as the Lord leads. "When you come together, every one of you hath......." whatever spiritual gift the Lord gives to each one and leads us to share. He is only Head of His church when He is leading it by His Spirit. Not the way man-made churches do things with men usurping the Headship of Christ. There is to be no schism in the Body...no division between so called clergy and so called laity.... all just have different gifts that's all. Better stop there, I'm going on a bit long.

Amen. Me too. I was raised in Catholicism but never heard the gospel preached there....salvation by faith, the need to be born again, Jesus dying to atone for our sins, etc. Sadly just a deadness in the Catholic churches I've been in. Most are not born again, their belief is just a mental belief, it isn't the faith of Christ that is not of our own.....they are lost souls, and many are antagonistic against the true gospel that is apart from their religion. Yes, much of the doctrine and practices....as well as the institution itself is false, not to mention corrupt. Well, it has always been about "whosoever will" and I'm sad for those Catholics I know and only desire that they would know Christ for real.

Well, all I know is I've been watching people being pre-judged with assumptions apparently just for the fact of participating in this thread. There are things being strangely turned upside down here. And nobody is saying that everything Catholics believe is wrong. I think of Catholicism as a mixture of truth and lies sitting on a man-made foundation.

That's what you are assuming. It's also true that knowing someone's background is often helpful in understanding what they are saying. But if you don't want to answer any questions being put to you, that is your perogative of course, and nobody is trying to force you.

Amen. And it is troubling to have others assuming and accusing the posters in this thread of harbouring prejudices against individual Catholics and assuming we would approach individual Catholics with a nasty attitude. It's interesting, because the truth is probably more likely to be the other way around, in my experience anyway, sadly.

You seem to be misunderstanding. There is a fair amount of confusion on this thread and Starise was courteously trying to understand where you're coming from, that's all.

I hear you. And now here's me getting some things of my chest: CatholicISM is not of God and leads many souls astray. If that offends anyone here, they don't have to participate in this thread if they don't want to. We are certainly free to discuss this or any subject as that is what forums are for. Instead of pointing out the errors and dangers of the Catholic belief system, for the benefit of those reading or participating, this thread has become about chastising and accusing those who are trying to point them out. Jesus said to think not that He came to bring peace on the earth but a sword. Elsewhere scripture says to turn away from those who have a form of Godliness but deny the power. Also says those who have not the Spirit of God are none of His. Which brings us to where the inspired word of God says to be not unequally yoked with unbelievers...but to come out from among them to be received by Him. One would think that efforts to return to or remain according to the plumbline of God's word in our faith and walk ought to be helped, not opposed. It's murky and puzzling as to where some folks stand. We're either on the side of the truth or we're not. GOD is not the author of confusion, and I hope I'm mistaken, but to me it seems as though efforts are being made to throw sand in our faces on this subject. If anyone wants to start a thread pointing out the errors with Protestantism or Protestant Evangelism, they are free to do so, and I probably would contribute to it too, Lord permitting, but that isn't what this particular thread happens to be about. And I want to say also that neither is this some sort of competition between Catholicism or Protestantism as some seemed to be trying to frame it.

Wow I didn't know that....had never heard of it before in evangelical circles. But it all sounds like the same thinking behind the "Crusades" of the middle ages. It's not the Way that Jesus taught and demonstrated...and doesn't come from HIS Spirit. Do we still have fellowship with believers or groups who are on that path? I just don't see how. It's not the gospel that Jesus and the apostles brought.

Amen. Especially when it comes to trying to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture...making things up ourselves to try and resolve them. We need to bring our thoughts CAPTIVE to the word of God and not go beyond what is written. We can only stand on solid ground, not "kinda-sorta-maybe" scenarios. It's far better to remain in a state of not understanding and wait on the Lord as long as it takes for Him to give us the understanding.

There is a problem though because of what some beliefs can lead to. I encountered someone who believes the church is going to rule this world by force, with earthly weapons. They believe force is what the "rod of iron" is all about. Whoa Nellie.... I was astounded, having never heard of anyone who believed that before. How does one deal with something like that? That's not something I can have any fellowship with, but nor could I refuse to at least try to help them see the truth, pointing out the scriptures that tell us what the rod of iron is. There are things that need to be contended with, and it matters what we believe in very real ways.

Amen, exactly. We so often are making up scenarios out of our own mind...things that scripture is just not saying. Good to always examine what we believe and make sure we're not either adding to or taking away from what the bible actually says.