listener24

Thank @Willa, verses on spot! Thank you @*Pumpkin*! (Such an awesome, funny name) This is definitely part of the issue, I totally agree. This is one part of the equation I' d like to hear your opinion also on the other aspect. The reason why it is bad to be worldly as you point out is beacause this world has been corrupted by the fall. Therefore loving it means love something that fell away from God' s will That is also why God doesn't intervene on fixing all the issues, otherwise this creation would already be His Kingdom, the new Heaven and Earth. When we fail to teach this and people see this reality completely as under God' s will, attributing to God all sort of disasters, then unfortunately it is natural for them to expect always the best on this earth if they are "good Christians"and to become even more attached to the world. Instead if we talk more about how fallen is this creation, probably people would be less prone to become worldly and will think more about Heaven, starting to desire the Lord to come sooner. What do you think?

Have you heard sentences like: - "we have been blessed with this great house and family" - "pray and your disease will go away" - "The reason why bad things happened to him/her is because he/she let the devil enter his/her heart" More often than not, in Christian churches, daily events are classified as either the direct intervention of Jesus or the Devil. In doing this, it seems like we are forgetting a "little" detail: the whole creation has been corrupted by the fall (Romans 8:22-24), and things will only be restored with the New Heavens and New Earth. Until then, instead of attributing everything directly to God, we could probably teach more sound doctrines. A better understanding of the fall and of its consequences on this creation, can lead us to a better understanding of the Gospel of the Kingdom, and can turn our prayers from our worldly desires (Matthew 6:7, Matthew 6:25-34), to our blessed desire of the Return of the Lord. Then more mouths will pronounce with a greater awareness the blessed prayer: "Even so, come Lord Jesus. Thy Kingdom come" What do you think?

No. We can NOT know the time nor the hour. But we can do something more useful, which is hastening His coming. "Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!" 2Peter 3:12

Dear @Chrisy It is very wise and kind from you to share these thoughts. As other people said here, everyone have had these thoughts at some point/points in time. Not everyone have faced them though, so some Christians aren't looking forward to that day (2Peter 3:12) because they have this fear in their subconscious. Instead, you are facing this fear and this is honorable. The other users had already great suggestions. The only one I add is to read the Gospel frequently. Sometimes our fear comes from not knowing, but a frequent relationship with Jesus words fills us with the Spirit and blows fear away. To get rid of evil, the best way is not staring at evil and trying to avoid it, but staring at what is good! God bless

Just read this pearl, thanks for sharing it!

Thanks @Yowm, I wasn't thinking about that actually, this is something I've noticed in years and all over the places (different nations). One thing is to participate in politics, which is good (I edited my question specifying it), another thing is put our hope in events/rulers of the world, when Jesus never said that justice will reign on this earth until His return, quite the contrary. @Neighbor Yes, exactly as prophesied by Jesus (Matthew 24) things are getting worse and worse. We just came out from 2 world wars and we still have dictatorships all over. You are totally right, everything predicted by Jesus about this world is happening. "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." @Dennis1209 and @Betha This is exactly the spirit that this post wants to emphasize. Thanks all for enriching the conversation. God bless. Maranatha

It recently seems like the main hope for a lot of Christians is politics. I don't think it was the same for the first Christian, whose primary hope was Christ Return and who were greeting each other with the word "Maranatha", which means "come quickly Jesus". If the hope of the first Christians for the world were in politics, they would get quickly discouraged, since people like Nero existed from since then, and for 2 thousands years we haven't yet seen a truly just government, nor does it seems it's gonna happen if we read Matthew 24. So the question is were is our hope? What do you pray for? What do you talk more about with fellow Christians? "However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." (Luke 10:20) PS Clarification: This post is not an invitation to not care about politics. It is good to be informed and participate in politics. This post is about not putting our hopes in politics or human rulers, since Matthew 24 shows us how things will get worse and worse until his return.

AHAH so true! Seems like often we like to talk about what we are familiar with and what we already know, and don't wanna spend too much energies on considering new topics

Amen! "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom."

Glad you are joining the prayer brother! Every single prayer according to the will of God has an effect, and we couldn't be more sure about how Biblical is the prayer for the Bridegroom to come. Starting from the Our Father, the prayer taught by Jesus Himself, when prayed with the right understanding. You are right, unfortunately worldliness leads to not care about our blessed hope of the Return of Jesus, or even fearing it! I love your Scripture about our treasure in Heaven. Indeed, true Christians get a huge part of their motivation from the blessed desire of Heaven. I always have goosebumps when I read these words of Jesus: ""Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world." A way to fight the worldliness is indeed focus our prayers on this blessed hope of Jesus Return, "thy Kingdom come/come quickly Lord", knowing that when we pray "your will be done" it is also included the request of whatever is needed to get there. "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Maranatha!

Indeed we are the Bride Kristin, and we should be happy and eager for the Bridegroom to come back for the marriage. "But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast." When the Bride comes to Her fullness of preparation, a cry will start from Her: "The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come! He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. " (Revelation 22:17, 22:20) The time is already here for the Bride to shout this cry from the whole world, as a testimony to all nations. It is time to answer what Jesus asked us in Luke 18:1-8: And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” Through this prayer, the Bride hastens the coming of His Bridegroom: "Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." 2 Peter 3:12 Let's answer the call of the Spirit who wants to make the Bride ready!

@Montana Marv @Retrobyter Thank you very much for the answers! Can you share some Scriptures about it? Thanks!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7217719/bible-prophecy-apocalypse-firs-red-heifer-born-israel/ I didn' t know anything about the topic. Anyone more knowledgeable on this topic wants to share thoughts?

"And I will do whatever you ask in my name" (John 14:13) (also Matthew 18:19; Matthew 21:22; Mark 11:24; John 14:13; John 15:7 etc.) A friend of mine was complaining that the words "whatever you ask" are ambiguous and seem to indicate that any kind of request will be fulfilled by the Father, and he was complaining that it doesn't seem to be the case about a lot of things that Christians asked and weren't fulfilled. How would you respond? (I already have an idea of a response, but don't want to bias you and want to hear your opinion)

I agree with @shiloh357 and @Sevenseas If a "pastor" ask to blindly follow a wrong suggestion, and the "asker" blindly follows the suggestion, the sin is on both. They are both violating Matthew 23. Because Jesus said: “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. Therefore, instead of this: SCENARIO 1 (against Matthew 23) "Pastor: here's is the suggestion. Follow it because I'm your pastor" "Normal Christian: ok, I'll do what you say pastor". A more healthy situation would be: SCENARIO 2 (In line with Matthew 23) Normal Christian 1: "Hey here's is a suggestion. But remember, I'm a man like you. Examine the Scriptures with your brain and make sure that what I'm saying is Scriptural" Normal Christian 2: "Thank you for the suggestion. I will examine the Scriptures with my brain, and see if the direction you suggested me is in line of Jesus' teachings". Now for scenario 2 to work, each Christian must have a daily relationship with the Word. It's not enough to read it once in a while and think that some "pastor" or "teacher" will explain us what we need to know

This warning is very much needed these days!

I' ve been reading a couple of books on this subject recently. They both point out that the true Church of all believers in the last days will become holier, despite the external and internal attacks, and part of the evidence that "the Bride has made Herself ready" will be the fulfillment of Revelation 22:17 "the Spirit and the Bride say come" An unprecedented desire for the Return of Jesus, manifested in the prayer "thy Kingdom come, come Lord Jesus", is one of the main traits that according to these books that draws from the Scriptures will show the maturity of the Bride and also fulfill Luke 18:1-8 This seems to be happening and this thread that you opened is an example!

Amen. I think that in summary, we can read other books as long as we test each content with the Scriptures. But we should never accept any teaching from a human author only based on his authority, regardless if he is the founder of our "favorite" denomination. Included Luther or other giants Matthew 23 is always relevant on this topic

Wow this is exactly what I was asking in the OT! I' ve been here only few months but I' ve noticed the same dynamics you are describing. Now you confirmed me that these kind of accusations of not doing something on Saturday but being very vague on what this "something" should be is a pattern.

Can you quote Jesus words in the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, you choose) on how to keep the Sabbath? I was simply asking this and all I am reading in 5 responses from you are an escalation of personal attacks. Don' t worry If you don' t feel like answering to that specific question though, there are much more urgent topics I' m discussing on this forum with other users Peace

Thanks for correcting the writing style! But using the singular form is not necessarily bad, it sometimes shows that the person speaking is using his/her own head while reading the Scriptures, instead of just following what some favourite leader said, and is ready to challenge his/her belief. Not that of course not using the singular form shows the contrary, but maybe in general is better to discuss the contents themselves more than the writing style, especially before jumping to conclusions. Actually, I don't have a strong opinion on the topic as I said at the beginning. For instance, it's great for me to dedicate AT LEAST a full day to the Lord and specifically on spending time with His word and taking time to think, or to serve Him in some specially dedicated ways, like worship and community life. This is what some user suggested and I loved their suggestion and made sure to incorporate it in my life. Which day or days? I'm not sure. Was trying to find some hints in Jesus words but found none. Some people may have to work on Saturday to feed their family, but maybe they have Sunday free for worship. Some other Wednesday. The post was a sincere question on whether there is any hint of indication from Jesus Himself on how to "keep" the Sabbath, because in that period this post was published there were a LOT of posts on this forum with people fighting on whether to "keep" or "not to keep" the Sabbath, but probably some of them was not even sure of what they meant by this. (there was an overwhelming amount of those kind of questions, seemed like the main topic for some weeks here, by far, which shouldn't be the case)

Brother, the Lord prayer talks exactly about that heavenly Kingdom that Jesus will set at His Return, when He will deliver us from the evil one, by separating the goats from the sheep, that is why is not "obsolete". In fact He says "our Father in HEAVEN..THY Kingdom Come" This is the same cry expressed in Revelation (notoriously a book about end times), about the true believers, especially in the last days: The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Jesus taught the Lord prayer, He didn't say "pray this prayer only from year 30 A.D. to year 33 A.D. then stop praying this because of the Pentecost", this is the invention of someone who told you this.

I am not calling God a liar by just reminding the prayer He taught Rather,differently from you, instead of trying to destroy what Jesus said I try to understand it. No I am not one of those parrot people, I pray the Lord prayer by understanding it, you neither understand NOR pray it But you teach other people that the prayer that God incarnated taught is obsolete. Go ahead with this teaching, while you teach to keep on babbling and be listened because of many words like the pagans (Matthew 6) Teaching errors like you slow down the return of Jesus because stop people from desiring it. Yes, teaching errors has a lot of bad consequences PS you said one thing right, that the correct translation is "do NOT abandon US into temptation", instead of lead US. I will update my post on that, thank you. The rest of what you said is the dangerous teachings of preterism.

No, the Kingdom has not come. It may have come into your imagination when you try to forget that millions of people still suffer starvation, war, persecution, slaughters, natural disaster etc. etc. while you are enjoying a beer. But regardless the lies, unless the King will not come back we can't say that the Kingdom has come. The King has been among us for a while, but then He has been taken away: Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. People will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. (Luke 17:22-24) Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36) But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. (John 8:23) So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth Acts 1:6-8 Then read the whole Matthew 24. You are confusing the coming of the Kingdom with the fact that we have received the Spirit to testify Jesus until His Return. This mistake have many names, one of it is "preterism", and its most dangerous effect is to slow down Jesus Return by making us stop desiring it and and stop praying for it. The most correct translation is "do not abandon us into temptation". Anyway, until God will separate completely satan from us, and throwing him into the lake of fire, we are still subject to temptations, so we are asking God to separate us from the evil one once and for all. This leads to the next point: No, we are still subject to the devil attacks. But one day Jesus will deliver us from the devil forever, and we are asking for the coming of that Glorious Day: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. [...] “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25) This is gonna be the final deliverance from the evil one, regardless of what already happened in your imagination, because right now the evil one is still causing devastating damages in terms of lost souls, suffering, famine, disasters. etc. etc. Instead of fighting this holy hope by spreading ideas that everything already happened and by attacking the Lord's prayer, the prayer of God incarnated, you could join the prayer to hasten it (2 Peter 3:12, Luke 18:1-8) The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22 17, 20) Thy Kingdom come. Maranatha.

Thanks, what you have outlined is exactly the kind of ideas that are slowing down Jesus Return Meanwhile billions of people suffer all over the world. Whoever don' t hasten His Return, slows it down. Congratulations for teaching the exact contrary of what Jesus said. With all my best efforts I wouldn' t be able to come out with the contrary of what Jesus taught so well as you did. Jesus said to not waste words like the pagans, and pray the Lord prayer. If you understood the Lord prayer you wouldn' t throwing it away as you are doing. Instead you are teaching how to waste words and how to NOT pray the Lord prayer. But what Jesus said in Matthew 6, will NOT pass away. Heaven and earth will pass away, as well as all human ideas, But His words will NOT pass away. BEWARE of preterism and everything even slightly similar! Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. People will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. Now below this post I will leave quick answer to your points that try to destroy the Lord prayer, the prayer taught by God incarnated, in favour of human prayers against which God incarnated warned us: