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Thanks @shiloh357 for warning us about these doctrines. If someone would believe Jesus' suggestions on prayer in Matthew 6, he/she wouldn' t be subject to these "Bethel"-like doctrines, NOR to other distortions of prayer. If someone would reason on how Jesus saw miracles (John 4:48, several other verses), not as the goal of His message But as a tool to demonstrate He was the son of God, he wouldn' t be subject to " Bethel"-like doctrines. If someone would reason on the blessed hope of Jesus Return to wipe away every tear, he wouldn' t be subject to "Bethel"-like doctrines. There is an hidden link between bethel-style doctrines and preterism. They both unconsciously spread the lie that the Kingdom is on this earth, here and now, and that we are the ones who will fix the world problems with the power of God. This is wrong on so many levels, and this belief delays the Return of the Lord because people who believe it don' t desire it anymore, NOR pray for it. (They don' t fulfill at all Luke 18:1-8) Jesus never said that We will fix all problems. Instead He said: At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdomwill be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The best starter guide is called "The Gospel", from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John Other starters guides, even my own words, are filtered by men. First read the Gospel with sincere seeking heart and you will find a lot! Then read them again and again. Then you can also read some other books written by men, but you will be more ready to judge if they are actually drawing from Jesus' words or not. For instance, on prayer you will find a lot of human considerations, sometimes completely against of what I reported you above from the Gospel of Matthew. You will find a lot of "long prayers" not different at all from the pagans' ones Jesus was warning against. You will also find out that Jesus words and message are simple: At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Complications often arise from not accepting or not knowing what Jesus said, not from not understanding. God bless you and your research!

That's a great question. The same question the disciples asked Jesus. (Luke 11:1-13) These are His suggestions: “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And do NOT abandon us into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’ The prayer "thy Kingdom come" is primarily the prayer for Jesus Return. Is the same prayer in Revelation: The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" (Revelation 22:17) and 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation 22:20) With this prayer, we are taught that we are speeding up the Return of Jesus. (Luke 18:1-8, 2Peter 3:12) This prayer, when finally fulfilled, will fix at once all problems: poverty, illness, unjust governments etc. etc., because 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[a] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:4) Of course, keeping in mind this as the primary purpose of prayer, it is also great to talk to God about what you are going through. Not that God needs to know it from you, but it can be for your own self edification, and meanwhile you can go deeper into the Scripture while you try to understand the best thing to do in every situation. But when it comes to asking something to God, there's no more Biblical and sanctifying request than the one above from the Scriptures. If you seek the Kingdom of God and His justice first, everything else needed for the mission will be given to you without asking (Matthew 6:33)

This is such an awesome and encouraging realization! How glorious will be, for those who would be alive at the last trumpet call, being part of that with their holy prayer "come!". That is exactly what we are doing, and part of what Peter described as "hastening the Return of the Lord". (2 Peter 3:12) So many people just tried to "guess" dates, that's not Scriptural. Instead, it's time to get Scriptural and become part of the "hasteners" Let's prepare the way for the Lord again!

There is "bad" ecumenism and "good" ecumenism. I agree that a lot is bad and I share your concern as well, I definitely don't want to compromise the Truth. An example that there is good ecumenism is this: "Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us. "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you." Now, consider this: it's ok to make known to our siblings, when they believe obvious lies, that they are wrong. But there is also division on ridiculous issues as well. Do we need to be divided around "pre-post-past-multi-anti tribulation" issues? When Jesus in the Gospel just asks us to be aware of false prophets, and to speed up his Return with an holy life? I find a shame being divided on this and I found funny that no one even on this forum completely agree on all the details of the aforementioned issue. Whoever is hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Luke 18:1-8, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13) is doing his job, regardless if his view is pre-post-past-anti-multi-pluri tribulation. (only exception here is for preterism-like doctrines: those doctrines slow down the Return of the Lord by deceiving people in believing that the Lord has already come, which is the most dangerous belief) I don't find that a "smart" issue to be divided on, so ecumenism in that direction is to be encouraged, when the issues are so hard to have the last word on. But on issues which are pretty clear (like idolatry), then ecumenism is not a good thing, we should firmly state the Truth on these issues which are so obvious from the Scriptures

this is the only point that really matters. The fact that they will never want to be God's friend, and they will continue to want to be evildoers. Therefore they are dangerous, and they can't stay in the same place with people who listen to God's suggestions.

hey all, just wanted to suggest few distinctions. 1) Ecumenism is often used with bad intents and bad effects. Whenever it is used to "compromise" on the Truth, then is not healthy. There is a lot of this "bad" ecumenism going on, and we shouldn't be part of it. 2) There is a lot of worldliness growing in Christianity. People who proclaim that the Kingdom already started. They are not only from preterism, they are from all sort of denominations. That's the main attack going on the Truth. There is a reason why this is spreading so much: is the last attempt of the enemy to stop the last revival that will lead to his demise. This leads to point 3 3) I've recently read a book that says that the question in Luke 18:1-8, " And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" , this very question, even if on one hand is referred to every Christian, on the other hands is referred especially to the last generation alive at the Return of the Lord, as the eschatological tone of the whole parable communicates. So the book says that in the last days there will be oneness among true Christians, and that would be a sign that "the Bride has made herself ready", in addition to the sign of the unified prayer "Thy Kingdom come. Come quickly, Lord Jesus" 4) wherever this prayer for the Return of the Lord will spread, in every denomination, it will show that the believer praying it are not falling into "worldliness". Those believer will show to be one in their desire for the Lord to become King. 5) Whoever instead will fight this prayer, will unmask his worldliness, and will show to be exactly like in the parable: ""But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'" (Luke 19:14) These "christians" will unite themselves in their worldliness, trying to delay the Return of the King instead of hastening it as Peter suggests (2Peter 3:12), but nothing good will come out of it. Meanwhile true Christians will unite in the desire of the Kingdom, and spread the real "good novel of the Kingdom" "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." 6) In short: Truth must come first, ecumenism will just be a result of it for true Christians. Ecumenism in false doctrines will lead to nothing good. We can recognize true Christians by their worldliness vs desire for the Kingdom. When the Bride makes herself ready in the Bible she says "The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"" (Revelation 22:17). This is a cry that will spread through all the true believers, while the worldly ones will try to fight it to delay their defeat

It' s pretty simple. Hell exists for people who still want to continue to do evil, eternally. If they were in Heaven,they would try to cause harm to the other people there again, that' s the only reason why the Father cannot let them in. "The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who DO evil." "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" His own children will ask God this separation with the prayer "deliver us from evil"

What you described is exactly the reason why Matthew 23:7-11 has to be taken literally. And after all, there is no other way to read it because it says "do not call ANYONE ON EARTH rabbi/father/teacher". Jesus was learned enough to express Himself differently if He meant "call that way only the good ones"

Wow, I agree. I've heard myself so many people speaking exactly as you described. "yes, one day, but as late as possible, I first have my projects to fulfill". Or something on those line. So the answer seems often exactly like in the parable that you quoted, which is not surprising since the Gospel is True today as it was 2000 years ago...

Such a great point! It's exactly that way. As the first question in the thread, I'd like to renew the question to everyone. Are we joining this, what's reported by @Fidei Defensor from Revelation? What are we praying for? What are we teaching to pray for to the other Christian? Are we following the suggestions from Matthew 6, or are we praying like pagans? Are we praying for the Bridegroom to come, or are we praying for our worldly issues? Do we desire the Bridegroom, or do we desire Him to fix some little things here and there while we are far from Him?

agree with the problems, and agree that we can do better. Do we have a plan or suggestions to do better? Here's one: focusing on what Jesus talked about most of the time...Heaven, our hope, and His return. The responsibility we have to "make the Bride of Christ", the Church, ready. The responsibility we have when we pray: if when we pray we "keep on babbling like pagans, who think will be heard because of their many words" (Matthew 6), we lose our great opportunity of prayer, by not listening Jesus basic suggestion. If we understand the Lord's prayer as the prayer primary focused on His Return, we'll receive the strength to prepare the Bride of Christ, all over the world. This is a plan that I see clearly in the Scriptures: 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a] 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." (2 Peter) "6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”" (Luke 18:1-8) With our eyes on this focus, the Spirit will do the rest in making us Holy and helping us not being deceived by the world

My hypothesis is that would be necessary. Exactly, your point on remembering Jesus cross goes in that direction. Of course it would not be a constant thought....But if anyone would have the doubt of what happens when we don't follow God, the testimony will be there to answer.

the testimony of everything that happened in the world will likely remain, in order that we may never forget all the damages that sin caused

Very well said. Part of that started from Jesus pouring the Spirit through His Word and from the Cross. He has done His part. The Bridegroom is ready. But the Bride is being slow... (as usually brides are ) It's time for her to get ready. And one sign of readiness, will be her cry: "Thy Kingdom come, Come quickly Lord!"

I'm not very learned on the subject. But I've noticed some dangers that Fidei Defensor mentioned, with some of those thinkers. Just wanted to add my concern as well. Hope you will get the best out of your research, by focusing on what Jesus talked most about, and not be mislead in pointless discussion on things Jesus didn't even mention, or even fought against. God bless you!

Totally agree. Memorizing Scriptures is one of the best activities we can do as Christians. "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." My first suggestion is starting through memorizing what is the center of our salvation, what all the prophets were looking for: the Gospel, the direct Words of Jesus Himself. I've noticing that memorizing Matthew is pretty easy. The language and the structure is very logical. A good tip is to "imagine" the scenes that the Gospel describe. By imagining what's happening, it's easier for our brain and heart to retain. Another suggestion is to start from the most meaningful parts. So for instance, the "genealogy of Jesus" or some very descriptive part can come later, while the verses in which Jesus speak should come first. Another tip is asking yourself questions about the teachings, even have the courage to leave the questions open when you can't answer right away. That way you make room in your heart to learn more. Last but not least, pray the Spirit to help you. "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

This is such a beautiful and encouraging question, thanks! First off, like all of you, I want see Jesus glory....One of my favorite verse from the Gospel is this: "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world." (John 17:24) There are many glorious people that I'll be excited to meet, prophets, righteous men and women from all over the world. But one of them, I'm particularly eager to meet: Socrates. Socrates lived 3-4 centuries before Christ, yet the Spirit put into His heart so much wisdom.... He was speaking about Heaven (although he wasn't calling it with this name), when people were more concerned about their social status. He was speaking about The God, when people of his time had a lot of different divinities. He was speaking about the quest for the Truth, as the only way to live a righteous life. He himself was speaking about how beautiful would be after death, to met glorious and righteous men and women from the past, and the righteous God. There's so much to be said about him... But I'm sure that he's now so glorious in the Kingdom, with all the lovers of Jesus and the Truth

I love this summary! That reminds me the parable of the wedding banquet. God tried to gather us together to Him, as a hen gathers her chicks (Matthew 23:37), but we didn't want! Time to be the ones who cry for Him, and not for our worldly matters, if we don't want to be like in the parable: ""But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, 'I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.' "Another said, 'I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I'm on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.' Still another said, 'I just got married, so I can't come.'

Wow, this is such a great thread. I'm moved! Agree, what I see around me is a lot of confusion and even fear of the Day of the Lord. So, with time we have come to fear what early Christians were excited for! Such a shame! And this for many reasons, one of this is people discussing too much on unnecessary details (about which NONE of them agree on), and not discussing what is certain and encouraging. And what is certain is that Jesus will wipe out every tear (Revelation 21:4), and we'll live with Him forever and we'll be made similar to Him! (1 John 3:2) Jesus taught us to be excited about His Return: "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." (Luke 21:28) I like your romantic metaphor here, we should be more excited than a wife who doesn't see his husband for a long time! And Jesus forecasted this sentiment and this longing of true good Christians: "Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it." (Luke 17:22) A lot of times, we get very excited when something happen in the world that we think is from God, desperately looking for signs, forgetting that Jesus told us to be excited for something else: "However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." (Luke 10:20) Totally agree, time to stop wasting words like the pagans (Matthew 6:7), and start praying as Jesus taught us: Thy Kingdom come, Come Quickly Lord Jesus! This prayer can spread all over the world, and the power of this prayer cannot be stop because it's not from men, but from the Word of the almighty God!

Woooow!!! I can't praise the Lord enough for this revelation you just got! Just to confirm that it's all about it, let's remember the last request: "deliver us from the Evil One" When will we be delivered from the Evil One? "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown." And then of course Luke 18: 1-8.... I am also thankful to the Lord that not only you understood this, but you understood that it is a BIG DEAL! Our understanding is so important, otherwise our prayers become "vain repetition". So if we pray the Lord prayer to just get worldly things, we are basically asking the opposite of what the prayer teaches...Then we become similar to those described in Matthew 22:1-14. I know you put a lot of importance on understanding, as your name "Fidei Defensor" says

I recently learnt about these movements. What do you think about?

Great question. I wish I had a perfect answer, but I haven't. I think a first step would be, when there are money, try always to think how to use them to help people and spread the Gospel. Does buying a bigger house help people or spread the Gospel? No. Does buying a brand new shiny car help people or spread the Gospel? Nope. Does buying luxury clothes help people or spread the Gospel? No. If in our heart and soul we have those 2 desires, help people and spread the Gospel, I think we'll definitely make a step closer to what the Scriptures teach. I think that having this clear goal, and be 100% undivided about it (pure in heart) or at least desire to become it, will help us balancing our choices, as long as we keep a close relationship with God and the Scriptures.

Beautiful prayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBHcvJhc6Pk