Billiards Ball

Don't attack the Qu'ran (even though it is filled with holes) but explain the gospel. Ask her "Are you 100% sure you'll get to Heaven?" then explain your assurance, Muslims have no assurance.

Adam and Eve were asked, "What have you done?!" because their children all sin, EVEN BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS. Pray to break the curse, love Christ more, find freedom. Amen!

God killed the innocent Jesus to save us, and He hates when innocents suffer, so what happened? There are sometimes occasions to do immoral things for moral reasons, these are RARE occasions.

Is the Christian willing to "enjoy" unsaved children, who waffle in belief because "Mom believes Jesus is real, Dad believes Jesus doesn't exist"? Do you need more reasons to wait? And it's not "marry a Christian" it's "marry a mature Christian, whose faith isn't eroding, who takes marriage seriously."

David ordered hundreds of people to blast their trumpets and voices, but yes, some wisdom and moderation is called for in some places...!

We are to love and have compassion for gays while explaining patiently that homosexuality is wrong--but usually such explanations are to non-gays. I NEVER tell a gay person, go straight, then trust Jesus!

I agree 100%. I've always thought that Jesus wasn't there for good reason and the chapters 4 and 5 are showing time and etc. Satan will be chained 1,000 years, we are both premillennial. Yes?

I understand and agree about none being found worthy, but because 4:9 is "you are worthy because . . . " and verse 10 is " . . . because you've made a kingdom of priests to serve" it can't be that the church age is after the book is unsealed and the church is the first seal. The church was made/built and then AFTER, the first seal was unsealed. Regardless again of when or what the first seal is, the 6th seal still seems to be the timing of the Rapture to me. I've also said 2,000 years is nothing to God but likely not "a short while" for the souls under God's altar. I'm open, and I'm praying. Thank you.

Forget tonight, if you saw someone struck by a bus who had SECONDS to live, you'd tell them TRUST JESUS. TRUST JESUS FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

You can imagine I'm uncomfortable with Jesus giving you an exegesis that other exegetes have not had (that I know of). You are making, for example, the "little while" the martyrs wait (5th seal) a 2,000-year period, and I can't think of a parallel passage that makes this work. 1,000 years is like 1 day for the Lord, but likely not for martyrs. But again, I have two drivers here: 1) Are there interpretations of challenging passages that are simple, like "a short while" is a short while? 2) If even an angel gives a vision, does it match the scripture? Thank you.

I don't understand. Your theory about the first seal being the church is based on exegesis or a vision(s) you had? And again, the timing of the first seal does not affect the timing of the 6th seal.

Very good. I like what you're saying about the seals. However, Jesus suffered unto death and so every knee will bow, and Rev. four and five repeat over and again His death, but not His resurrection, as making Him "worthy". Jesus was born on Tabernacles, rose on First Fruits, died on Passover, etc. Unfulfilled are the fall festivals, when the wheat and chaff are separated, the grapes are trod. Yom Kippur or Day of Atonement, the ten days of Awe and Rosh Hashanah/New Year/Jubilee. If the Antichrist sits in the Temple at mid-trib, it's PASSOVER, since he is mocking the Christ and is a true anti-type. Prewrath is simple, first four seals are war, famine, plague, death during the first 3.5, then fifth seal is beast on the ark and martyrdom of believers, sixth seal is sun and moon darken and the rapture drawing us away so the great trib/2nd 3.5 is "cut short" without which none would survive, then there are rewards and feasting in Heaven, bowl judgments on Earth... about ten days of Awe elapse between Yom Kippur's Rapture and the Rosh Hashanah Return. I hear you loud and clear about the white horse separate and the first seal being the church, yet that wouldn't change my understanding of the Rapture timing/6th seal. In the world we have tribulation, are taken out before the [trumpets], bowls and plagues fall. It seems like another chiasm with Exodus this time, some days of plagues and awe before final judgment.

The Bible is clear that one can divorce for adultery, yet that is not forced. If a wife is physically abusing her husband, he should separate from her physically until she repents/gets counseling. Separation isn't divorce.

No one becomes a Christian because of a tragedy. People become Christians when they realize they cannot perfect themselves morally, ever, and that Jesus died to forgive them now, utterly transform them later.

Not "nice" but actually, nice. We agree on many things, the timing of the seals and bowls is the primary difference as it is between most people touching pretrib and prewrath. I didn't say Revelation is chiastic in structure. I said it's a chiasm with Genesis. And the Genesis creation story is told twice from two different vantage points, focus on creation, focus on man's creation. I didn't say the Day is the same Day as the Rapture, etc. I don't want to go in-depth with you since you won't address what I actually write and consistently address me poorly, as with "That is just another theory from someone that does not understand the book." Why would you speak that way to me? I've memorized entire chapters of Revelation. I understand it well. And I AGREE with you--"John started where he was, around 95 AD, and continues from that point in time straight through the church age, then through the day of the Lord and 70th week, then through the 1000 year reign of Christ, and on into a new heaven and earth, and on into eternity. It is writing in perfect order, with the exception of parenthesis."

The Bible contains countless chiasma, Genesis is a two-telling, it has been suggested that Revelation is the same. I agree with your statement regarding a parenthesis. We've gone far afield from the basics, prewrath is simple, teachable. You've said for a number of my questions "The Bible doesn't say...", "Not sure when, but it must be that..." so let's agree to disagree. Feel free to have the last word here.

We are still very close to total agreement, based on the above. My concern is that you are continuing to address points I didn't bring up (putting words in my mouth), while not answering my questions or comments. I'm a fundamentalist and we need more than Bible study to know a thing, we need prayer. I'll start: Lord Jesus, I hope I'm wrong about the prewrath view. I would love to miss the tribulation personally. If I'm wrong, please show me. If my brother is wrong, millions of Christians may be shaken when the rapture fails to happen before tribulation and martyrdom. I know you would use that to sift believers, Lord, so that's okay, too, you give both of us peace and love that passes knowledge. Jesus, I remain convinced that every word, even every letter of the 66 is inspired. Convict my conscience about prophecy, Lord, so I may understand and use my knowledge to help win souls and disciple them. Thank you, Jesus.

What are your goals for our conversation? What is it that you would like me to do?

I still agree with you. The Rapture is a great day for us, a bad day for others, a "great and terrible day". The sun turns dark, the moon turns red, there is no silent invisible rapture, but trumpets sounded, a processional of the Lord, shouts calling us up... The signs of the sixth seal (moon and sun and earthquake) open the Rapture timing, then it's immediately a very bad day for those remaining. The Rapture first, then the Day. The pre-wrath rapture allows for all including 1 Thessalonians to be utterly chronological. You allowed for five parentheticals in Revelation then tell me it's a one-telling, but disallow a prewrath parenthesis in Revelation? Hmmm....

Actually, we completely agree again, but place the timing of the seals and bowls differently. I'm glad you aren't amillennial or etc. as well. Thank you.

The solution is a person. The Bible explains that Jesus Christ, being God, innocent and perfect, switched places with us on the cross. He died a horrible death by torture to take our sin, guilt and shame, our imperfection. He then rose from the dead, and as the Bible says, “God loved the world in this way--He gave His Son [I hold one hand up], so whoever trusts Him [I raise my other hand] shall not perish but has eternal life [I fold the fingers of my hands together].” (Trust is clearer than “believe” for John 3:16.) Put another way, “God made Jesus, who was perfect, to be imperfect [I cross my arms over each other] for us, that we who are imperfect might become as perfect as God.”” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Prayer like coughing when you have a cold, here and there, as required, abundantly.

I didn't write that book, I edited it. I've written other books on other subjects. I didn't say "I believe Van Kampan". I said multiple authors came to the same conclusions via independent studies. Revelation reads chronologically with pre-wrath. I don't mind discussing the issues, but that isn't an issue.

Pre-wrath agrees, the Spirit will restrain until the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is a blessed day for us, a fearful day for unbelievers, since the sun turns dark, the moon turns red and the bowls are poured out after the rapture. I also agree the rapture is just before/is the sixth seal. We are disagreeing as to when the sixth seal is. I also agree that Paul tells us the rapture will come suddenly while unbelievers are thinking peace and safety, and Jesus tells us while when we are in prison, lifting up our heads for our redemption draws near. I agree that Revelation is a "two telling" like Genesis in perfect chronological order. I already said all eschatons are in perfect chronological order. Did you know Daniel's "1335th day" is Channukah, when the Temple gets cleansed?

I'm well versed in it and the editor of this book: https://redemption-press.com/shop/the-last-days-calendar/ I'm not seeing what you're seeing in John 14/15, where does it use the term "starting the days of the Great Tribulation" in those passages?