Tigger56

Actually it was a twelve pack. I thought a hypocrite was someone who didn't live as they preached, someone who pretended to be someone they are not. I am a Christian and I don't believe alcohol is a sin, to act otherwise.... wouldn't that be hypocritical? Who knows, perhaps sometime someone will ask me why I wear a Christian shirt and drink beer.... it will open some dialogue. Also, I believe Christians are labeled as judgemental and unloving more than they are labeled hypocrites.

If any church member saw you maybe you got mentioned in a lot of prayers.... never a bad thing!

What an awesome miracle! Thanks for sharing that. I agree you should avoid the appearance of evil, but purchasing a pack of beer at a grocery store during the day should not qualify for that. I suppose I could dress in dark coat and hat and go late at night, peering over my shoulder to see if anyone saw me and with trembling hand and bated breath quickly race to the cashier praying that no one judges me and is offended (but what if the cashier if offended... man, I'm in trouble no matter what!

Thank you for sharing and for the wisdom of your words.

Thanks for sharing and for that beautiful reply.

One other thought on this matter... I have a brother in law that is greatly against alcohol. Though I feel he is wrong I know that when we have a meal together it would offend him if I served an alcoholic beverage so I won't. But it is my habit to wear Christian shirts. It is also my habit to buy beer along with food etc.... at a grocery store. The couple that were at the grocery store was there knowing that the grocery store sells alcohol and they should know that people buy it. Perhaps it shocked them that a Christian would buy and drink alcohol and I am sorry about that. But they should know that not all Christians believe the same about alcohol and that there are many Christians that don't believe it is a sin. But my intention was not to offend, I was simply going about my normal routines. I didn't have a can open drinking it in from of them and belching loudly (that might have been offensive), I had simply purchased it, which was legal and an expected thing at a grocery store.

disagree.... The 12 benefits of drinking beer: 1. Beer keeps your kidneys healthy A Finnish study singled out beer among other alcoholic beverages, finding that it was better for your kidneys. In fact, each bottle of beer you drink reduces the risk of developing kidneystones by 40%. perhaps you are thinking of those who only drink in excess and are alcoholics.

What can I say? When I say a blessing at a restaurant it is in front of a meal that will sometimes include a glass of wine or beer. As Popeye would say, "I yam what I yam". I don't necessarily want to offend but will be open and candid with others. I don't feel alcohol is wrong. I do believe Jesus drank wine in fact though the Pharisees were wrong they even called him a wine bibber. Perhaps in an effort not to offend it would have been better for him to have only drank in secret and think of how offensive he was when he sat with prostitutes and publicans at a meal!

I prefer craft beer but it was actually a cheaper beer I hate to confess. It was Bush Ice. I apologize, it was wrong of me I know. I will try to do better.

Not addicted to it, but enjoy it just like I enjoy iced sweet tea, pineapple juice, good cold water, etc.... Never try to get drunk. Did that once way back when I was younger.... not an enjoyable experience! But yes, I do keep cold beer in my refrigerator, I do have wine bottles in a wine rack, and do have some bourbon in my cupboard. Of course my bourbon has aged a lot since it isn't my favorite type of beverage. Also wine is more of a beverage my wife will enjoy an occasional glass of it, so beer is my thing. I really enjoy going to restaurants that serve craft beers so I can try different kinds. But once again, never to excess. As for health, absolutely I drink to my health! In the winter, if feeling like a cold is coming on, it is time for a hot toddy. Also red wine is very good for you. The beer, great for your kidneys.

True, don't want to offend, but at the same token I didn't think about it because I didn't feel I was sinning or doing anything wrong. Just like the fact that I will often cut my grass on Sunday. I keep the Sabbath and I'm not offended by others cutting their grass on Saturday. I believe they are wrong but don't condemn them for it not feel offended. Perhaps, being offended is another subject in itself. What if my shirt with the name of "Jesus" on it was offensive, should I quit wearing it.

How did you know???? My shirt wasn't tucked in and I did buy a brand I normally don't buy! You are very perceptive.

What what? Was there a question or perhaps the sentence was vague so here is the explanation.... I wasn't thinking about the fact that wearing a shirt with "Jesus" on it while picking up some beer might offend someone. It is normal for me to wear Christian slogans on shirts, etc.... and yes it is normal for me to enjoy an occasional beer.

A couple of days ago I was coming out of an Ingles grocery store. I will often wear Christian theme hats or T-shirts. That particular day I was wearing a shirt that declared on the front, "Ya'll Need Jesus". I wasn't really thinking about the fact that the shirt along with a pack of beer might be offensive to someone, but I had gone into the store to pick up a 12 pack of beer. When leaving the store an elderly man and woman was getting out of their car and the look of judgement was all over the man's face as he saw my shirt and what I was carrying in my hand. I didn't have the beer hidden in a grocery bag as it was the only item I had picked up. I saw him whisper to his wife and both just stared at me as I walked to my pick-up truck. I am in the section of country known as "the Bible belt". I believe it was also on Sunday that I made my purchase. Up until just a few years ago, we also had "blue laws" which prohibited the buying and selling of any alcohol on Sundays. I even grew up in a "dry county" that prohibited the sale of any alcohol. It wasn't my intention to shock the elderly couple and I realize that many in my area are good southern Baptists and they condemn the use of any alcohol and truly believe that Jesus drank only grape juice and never wine even at the last supper. Many grew up thinking that all alcohol was evil and was condemned along with dancing and card playing. (I also like to dance and play cards). I don't make it a habit to offend others and am sorry that they appeared to be offended by me. But I also have no problem with alcohol as long as it isn't drank in excess. I enjoy a cold beer in a frosted mug or straight out a bottle or can. It was made to go with pizza! I also enjoy a good glass of wine and sometimes even a mixed drink. I am curious of the background of others in the forum. What were you taught? And what are your beliefs about alcoholic beverages?

A raise a prayer of praise before I start a new day. I say a prayer before any meal. I start many things with a short prayer. I don't make a big show of it but my wife and I bow our heads before every meal to give thanks to the Lord. I will do this at restaurants or at home. I love to see it when others do it at restaurants, be it a couple of people or a family, it always warms my heart to see the reverence and gratefulness displayed for God without shame before others. I believe it sets a good example in a nation where many have become entitled and have very little gratefulness in their hearts. I do not believe Matthew 6, verses 5 and 6 is condemning this. Prayers spoken in humility before our God for the simple blessings of food, or for guidance, or in praise are not for show or for glory of the individual. I would love to see how many of you feel in regards to this.

Can't say that I agree with this. Fasting is a powerful tool to be used with prayer. Jesus even gave direction to his disciples in how they were to fast. I do agree we need to hunger and thirst for the Lord, but that isn't fasting, that is seeking and desiring. Fasting is deliberately doing without, I would never deliberately do without the Lord, I can never can enough of them.

Thanks for sharing! I too love to sing and sing unto the Lord not only at church but each and every day. I doubt I have a great voice but I (unfortunately for others) make up for it (or add to it) with volume. I sometimes dance before the Lord, I will raise my hands in worship and yes at times shed tears. I will also share a story with you... When I was younger I attended a bible college. When I was a freshman, others would make fun of one man that attended. He was older than most of us and was originally from Russia. He couldn't carry a tune if it came in a bucket with a handle, but he loved to sing! He would sing every morning in the shower in the dorm. You could hear him throughout the dorm. Our dorms were single floor and not huge as this was a small, private college. I remember some were making fun of him one morning and one guy said he was going to go and tell him to shut up. I told him and the others to stop laughing at a man that clearly loved the Lord so much and reminded them that he wasn't singing for them, he was singing to the Lord. I think of this man from time to time and have used him as an example to others and when I am reminded of him, I will raise my voice. I'm not singing for others, I am singing to the Lord.

My answer to this is YES. I call it the fragrance of heaven. I have smelled it before. The air around me becomes cool and clean, very refreshing. I have smelled something similar to vanilla and once the smell of cinnamon. It hasn't happened as much as I would like, but it does happen.

A couple drove up to a service station to get gas in their car and was speaking to the employee there. They stated they were just moving into the town and had come from out of state. They commented that they were happy to move because they wanted to get away from the people they use to be around. The man and woman stated that all of their neighbors in the previous town had been horrible people and impossible to get along with. They asked the employee how the people were in the new town they were moving too. He stated that he had bad news for them, that they would be exactly as bad as the ones they left. The couple drove off very disappointed. Another couple drove up to the service station later in the day. They spoke to the same employee. They stated that they were just moving into town but hated that they had to move. They stated all of their neighbors had been such friendly and loving people and were going to greatly miss them and the whole town. The employee at the service station told them that they would be happy to know that they would find the people in the new town were extremely friendly and kind. That they would love having moved there. The couple drove off happy. Our attitude, our perspective, our actions.... make more of a difference than perhaps we can ever imagine. I have been told that there are 2 kinds of people in the world.... one kind brings joy when they enter a room, one kind brings joy when they leave the room.

We can learn so many lessons from history and from others. After the civil war, hobos became known in our country, many young men from the south had to travel the trains to find work. This increased during the time known as the Great Depression. Hobos were not bums, most were hard working men that needed jobs and traveled around to do them. The hobos followed a strict ethical code that we can still learn from. I thought I would share it... There are 15 rules or tips so excuse the length of the post. 1. YOU DO YOU "decide your own life, don't let another person run or rule you." 2. SHOW SOME RESPECT "When in town, always respect the local law and officials, and try to be a gentleman at all times." 3. DON'T BE AN OPPORTUNIST "Don't take advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable situation, locals or other hobos." 4. GET A JOB "Always try to find work, even if temporary, and always seek out jobs nobody wants. By doing so you not only help a business along, but ensure employment should you return to that town again." 5. BE A SELF-STARTER "When no employment is available, make your own work by using your added talents at crafts." 6. SET A GOOD EXAMPLE "Do not allow yourself to become stupid drunk and set a bad example for locals' treatment of other hobos." 7. BE MINDFUL OF OTHERS "When jungling (camping) in town, respect handouts, do not wear them out, another hobo will be coming along who will need them as badly, if not worse than you." 8. DON'T LITTER "Always respect nature, do not leave garbage where you are jungling." 9. LEND A HAND "If in a community jungle, always pitch in and help." 10. PRACTICE GOOD HYGIENE "Try to stay clean, and boil up wherever possible." 11. BE COURTEOUS WHEN YOU'RE RIDING THE RAILS... "When traveling, ride your train respectfully, take no personal chances, cause no problems with the operating crew or host railroad, act like an extra crew member." 12. .... AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT. "Do not cause problems in a train yard, another hobo will be coming along who will need passage through that yard." 13. HELP OUT THE KIDS. "Help all runaway children, and try to induce them to return home." 14. SAME GOES FOR HOBOS. "Help your fellow hobos whenever and wherever needed, you may need their help someday." 15. LEND YOUR VOICE "If present at a hobo court and you have testimony, give it. Whether for or against the accused, your voice counts!"

Thomas, I never said that the only reason Rome fell was due to sexuality, but it did become one of the factors that stands out for all societies that go further into darkness. You keep saying that I am making presumptions, but aren't you? A few years ago Ben Carson talked about the fact that a lot of men switched to a gay lifestyle while in prison. What you call "discrimination", I call obedience to God. Sin is sin, it has to be addressed as such. We can not simply accept. I believe you are ignoring scripture but will make this one last post on the subject so feel free to have the last word on the matter and those reading can see both sides of the discussion. I do want to thank you again for presenting the other side of the matter and will let other decide. You may want to look at the following scriptures: Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27 In Matthew 19:3, 4-6, Jesus shows plainly what marriage is meant to be. We can be loving and kind without acceptance of sin. I want to leave you one final thought. Hebrews 7:26, “For it is indeed fitting that we should have such a High Priest, who is holy, innocent, pure, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.” To be separate does not mean that you isolate yourself from sinners, you isolate yourself from sin by the power of a righteous life. Compromise with darkness gives power to darkness and when you compromise with darkness you are not separate from darkness. We cannot be separate when we look the other way and give tolerance to sin by silence and inaction.

Thomas, good morning! Let's look at what your responses are. This may take a moment. I agree we should never accept child abuse, but as I see people accept the concept of homosexuality as being simply a matter of sexuality then pedophiles are next on the horizon. (note: I use the term "homosexuals" as an acceptable term over perhaps the term used in scripture, "sodomites".) I have even seen some articles on it where people are saying that they shouldn't be condemned or imprisoned or discriminated against because it is just the way they are born. Sad, but I do see this coming and hope you look around on some articles on it. Being a pedophile isn't simply "a sexuality" nor is being homosexual. It is choice. You state that it is an assumption of mine, but isn't it an assumption on your part that it isn't a choice. Why do so men become homosexual while in prison? They choose to sleep with other men. It isn't that all of them all of a sudden discover their "sexuality". God is just and he does condemn homosexuals in his holy word. When the men at Sodom desired the men (angels) at Lot's home over his own daughters, I don't see an exception being made for them. The Lord destroyed the cities. God's law is just and fair based upon love but without partiality, it is just and fair to all, but if one chooses to follow a path against the law of God then there are consequences. In regards to not having "love" if you speak against someone's sexuality, this is in error. You say it is against their "sexuality" but it is against a choice. I truly believe God's word does show that it isn't simply a lifestyle, it is a choice. But if we wanted to say for argument's sake that it is their sexuality, then how can we speak against rapists? Yes, it isn't consensual, but how can we dare accuse or discriminate against the rapist, it is his sexuality, he can't control his urges... he was born that way. If a pedophile attacks a child... how dare we accuse or discriminate... it is his sexuality, he can't control his urges.... To me this is the argument being used for people who chose to lie with those of the same sex. This argument is a dangerous and slippery slope that opens the argument to these other choices. But I can love the person and still speak against their actions. If love means never being able to speak against another's choices then how do we ever declare to a sinner that they need to repent? In history, it has been shown that homosexuality becomes more prevalent as a nation draws closer to its own demise. This should be a warning to many in our nation and world today. It is an evidence of darkness growing, it's not enlightenment. The book, "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" is a fascinating book to read and you will find similarities today. If homosexuality is something God endorses (this has to be a question that can only be asked by ignoring segments of the Bible), Then we have the old question but fair question of.... why didn't God create Adam and Bob instead of Adam and Eve.... Well, we do know they would have been totally unable to fulfill the command of be "fruitful and multiply". But in fairness.... why not Adam and Eve, and in another section of the garden, Sam and Steve, just to be fair. Thank you Thomas, you once again present questions or reasoning that face many. I believe many are deluded by the mainstream media and by Hollywood by making homosexuality as something beautiful and good. But it is not and those who participate in it need to be shown the truth and yes, I do believe truth can be presented in a loving and patient way. If a couple of homosexuals came to our church, they would be welcomed with love and kindness, and in God's love, I believe He would start opening their minds and hearts. I don't think it would be too difficult because gays or lesbians, though they defend their way in loud and hostile ways know deep down they are wrong.

I understand what you are saying Thomas and it kind of proves my point. Christians struggle with this as well as with how to love and this is why I posted as these as two of my points. What many Christians need to realize I feel is that love should never mean permission and allowance to sin. I do not look at homosexuality as being born that way, nor has that ever been proven. I look at it as a sexual choice and one that the Lord does condemn as sin. The Lord is not an unjust God and he would not determine something as a sin if there were no choice involved. Homosexuality goes against the pattern of love as established by the Lord. So yes, I would discriminate against them in allowing them in a position of leadership due to their sin not due to their "sexuality". A pediophile can claim their desire for little children is based on their sexuality, but it, once again, is a sin. In your example, being a musician, being told you cannot be a leader would be a totally different matter, as you are not sinning by playing music whereas a man with a man or woman with a woman is in fact a sin. Should we love them? Yes! But not condone their actions. If a man were an alcoholic, I would love them as a child of God but not condone their action not place them in a position of leadership. Should they be allowed in church? Yes! Where they can learn the word of God and make the changes they need, not to accept their behavior and choice. Thank you for your Post, Thomas. You always know how to post in a manner of discussion and not flammable debate.

I believe the main issues Christians struggle with the most in these days and times is due to social issues and the lack of strength being provided by local churches. Too many churches have attempted to be "with the times" and have failed to maintain a strong stance on many issues facing Christians today. So none of my answers have to do with doctrinal issues such as baptism, salvation, etc. As seen in this forum many have strong stances on these things. I also have strong stances on the three things I will list as I and the church in which I belong speak out about these things, but I do feel many struggle with these three things. Here are my three: ( 1) homosexuality - some churches allow homosexuals to become preachers and leaders within their churches. This has caused division in various denominations. Christians struggle with "politically correct", are they born that way or is it a choice of lifestyle?" Should I judge or should I be tolerant?" This is a major issue for various churches and individual christians at this time. (2) This has some ties to number one, the question of love - how should it be followed in present times. "Is tolerance....love?, is judgement and discernment.... anti-love?" Christians are bombarded by the mainstream media and much fun is made of Christians in this day and age. It is difficult sometimes to stand out and all have a desire to be accepted, but at what cost? Christians often are displayed as unloving and judgemental, this is difficult for a Christian to face and stand strong against. (3) Despite calm displayed by many, most people, Christians included know that our world is in a downward spin. Evil has crept as a fog across this nation and across the world, there is fear and unease. Many believe in an end time, but most have always desired it to be in a time other than their lifetime. Christians need the strength of unity and conviction. We are in deed in the last generation that will walk apart from our Lord and the fear in many must be addressed and faith must be strengthened. There is a need for strong churches who preach truth without fear, but as I look across this landscape, I know it is surely missing.

I try to never pass by. I go as the Lord leads me. Sometimes I have little care bags in my car to give them. Sometimes I give them a gift card for five dollars to a Burger King or McDonalds. Sometimes I have parked my car and gotten out and talked with them. I have had some wonderful experiences doing that. I walked by one in a park and he was doing a terrible job of playing a trumpet. I stopped and talked with him and left a gift card. As I went to leave he thanked me.... not for the card but he said, "thank you for taking the time to talk with me and treat me like a human being." Last week, I saw a man and I asked him what he needed. He told me he was hungry. I parked and walked with him to a restaurant and bought him a meal. I have given money before, just like the car bags I keep in my car, I also keep five dollar bills in my glovebox. I know some are alcoholics and some are grifters, but I let the Lord lead me. I don't try to be an enabler but also don't want to be too harsh in my judgement. If love leads me, I believe I am pleasing the Lord. If I see them numerous times.... so? You aren't homeless one day and not homeless the next... not how it usually works. I have talked with homeless that have been on the streets for years. Sometimes its due to mental illnesses, addictions, choice and sometimes by hard circumstances. I also keep in mind that I may be entertaining an angel unawares.