Alive

I am impressed by the effort all of you folks have put into this stuff. This isn't something that the Lord ever has led me to search out much beyond the reading and what you run into as a matter of course through the years. After reading the thread---the impression I am left with is that none of you know for sure. I have wondered over the years a time or three why the Lord hadn't opened my eyes to understand the book of Revelation. I reckon He leaves that for other members of the Body. I actually remember a time where I thought the Lord was telling me to leave it alone. Go figure.

Oh boy! I have no skin in this game my friend. I have stated my views. That is enough. I attempted some levity and am sorry if it offended you. For the record--I believe in climate. I see it every day. I believe in weather as well. I see it every day. I also admit that we 'may be' in a warming trend. What I don't believe is the doom and gloom related to these things. As I have said--lets talk in 10 years and we will most surely know then.

God moved on from the physical to the spiritual when His Church was born. Although natural Israel still/will play a role, His sons are now spirit born from above. Jesus Christ is prophet, priest and king and the first of many brothers--He is nowhere depicted as a father.

The ten years is this ridiculous claim by some that we are done in by man- caused global warming. I think the models are as reliable as my claim about underground water.

I just dreamed that up to make a point.

Oh Lord no. NO, No. It is a term of endearment that myself and folks have used for so many years.

I hear you and am praying that the Lord will lighten your load and heart and give you His strength and peace. for your husband and children, also.

The Lord brought me on a similar path, GreyJay. Believe me, I understand. I've mentioned it before. The Jacob lesson.

This is weird because I haven't discussed this for a long time. The Lord has occupied me with different stuff. I am glad to be thinking about it and working through it. I find that my mind can make a bunch of arguments for predestination, but it seems unnecessary, somehow. Perhaps that is the Lord. Its not new--who am I to put my hand to something that so many others already have. He has in miraculous ways shown me that faith and confession are required and very important, but that lesson didn't negate the other. I will share the experience I just alluded to. I was a young man still and pastoring a church. The Lord woke me up at 2 o'clock one morning and told me to go see this fella I had witnessed to. He told me right where he would be. I met him driving taxi cab. The small church wasn't wealthy. Anyway, I woke my wife and told her. She thought I was crazy. Nothing new there. I drove to where the Lord said Buddy would be. I didn't know what else to do because the Lord just said, 'go see Buddy Breau and he will be in such a place". I got out of the car and went to his cab window and asked him if he had thought about what we talked about. He said "yes--I believe" I said, praise the Lord and went home. Approximately an hour later--Buddy was robbed and shot in the head and killed. The lesson that night was, "pay attention, this stuff is serious". That very pointed lesson was a milestone and meshes perfectly with being predestined by God. There have been other dramatic lessons and none of them showed me different. Days later talking to his new young wife, was another story.

I suppose this is true in the main. Every soul is different. My path was a bit different. I didn't come to this particular belief through a denominational creed. Anyway, it wasn't until years later that I looked back at my conversion experience in light of 'predestination'. It came over time and knowing Him. I honestly don't understand how believers can not believe that God predestines us. The scriptures are so clear--to me. For some reason, its an argument that has gone on for a long time. This is a mystery to me.

That word 'dragged' in Acts is the same word used in John 'draw'. I understand all of the counters and scriptures to 'predestination'. A person can take a few scriptures and construct pretty much anything as has been done since the beginning by a ton of people. In my estimation, the entire body of scripture needs to be taken into consideration when desiring to come to a conclusion on an issue. In addition to the lines of scripture; is the mind and intent of our Creator that is everywhere between the lines. The entirety of that, makes for a tapestry that depicts a great saga. I 'believe' first because of the gift of faith through grace and then go on to continue to believe by both choice and grace. "Lord help my unbelief". How many times have members uttered that cry! I can't even breathe without Him. I am completely and totally in width, breadth and height dependent on Him. After conversion, my freewill is still limited. He hems me in and keeps me in the hollow of His hand. Nobody can snatch me away and I can't walk away. I tried once. Praise the Lord! I understand you don't agree. I have talked about these things for over 45 years with all kinds of folks. I know I can't convince you and I don't need to. That is up to the Lord. Of this, I am also quite sure. May the good Lord take a likin' to ya. :-)

There are many 'choices' after conversion--aren't there? Can the pot say to the potter....? John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me adraws him; and I will braise him up on the last day. Acts 16:19 But iwhen her owners saw that their hope of gain was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and jdragged them into the marketplace before the rulers. Rom. 8:29 For those whom He aforeknew, He also bpredestined to become cconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the dfirstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He apredestined, He also bcalled; and these whom He called, He also cjustified; and these whom He justified, He also dglorified. Eph. 1:5 1He apredestined us to badoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, caccording to the 2kind intention of His will, Eph. 1:11 1also we 2ahave obtained an inheritance, having been bpredestined caccording to His purpose who works all things dafter the counsel of His will,

That side of the coin and a discussion of such, is a big discussion. I think differently on the issue than some do. Predestination is taught from Genesis all the way to the last chapter. God has chosen men, women and nations. I ask my question from a thread I started. Did Lazarus have a choice? That is precisely what happened to me! :-)

My friend, you weren’t there. My will had nothing to do in that moment.

I will relate my 'salvation experience' for your thoughtfulness as it relates to the subject. I am the way, the truth and the life and none can come to the Father but by me. That is the first scripture I heard resound in my heart. I was 18 years old and a seeker. I was studying eastern religions and such things. One day while standing outside waiting for a ride, I found myself looking up to heaven and crying out--"God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with truth". A couple minutes later a guy I knew from our HS came walking down the sidewalk toward me. He invited me over the next night to play guitars and sing songs. I did to find out it was a bible study--a bunch of Jesus Freaks. LOL John was my friend's name--he read the above scripture and I heard the Lord speak to me as audible and clear as can be--"I am the Truth". At that moment, I believed. He put the faith into me. My will was not involved.

There is a huge sub-surface ocean of water under the South Pacific that is leaking. It is fresh water and is changing the salinity, density and volume to a small degree. There is another one under the Arctic ice. The residual 'fountains of the deep'.

I believe that all companies of believers from the beginning are predestined--more pointedly in this Church age, not due to a greater importance, but because of the sharp point. I am in awe of God's Plan and I can only guess at most of it. To answer the question from above: it has never occurred to me to relax because He chose me to be 'In Christ'. I have relaxed and fallen short and even tried to run from God one season, but that was not the reason. Incidentally, that time when I tried to run from Him? He showed Himself to me in such love and grace, that it floored me. That was one of those milestones. His purpose and His calling can not be thwarted...He is indeed sovereign.

Watching what is happening with Turkey right now is interesting. I have not been an 'end time' guy for decades, but things are getting interesting, in my estimation. I reckon, my wonderment is more directed at the USAs place in the end. I suspect, it won't be significant. What other entity fits the 'made all nations rich' verse?

Well--I disagree. I think it IS the acceptable answer. I simply don't accept the validity of your sources. My source is my own ability to think. In ten years, we will see--if the Lord tarries.

Good morning, young man. All of these questions that you are asking yourself regarding existence, mind, self-determination, awareness and cause and effect and our place and abilities within the context of this 'universe' and 'its laws' that our Creator made---have been asked by many throughout the centuries. All of those questions and searchings are simply the result of man's internal sense of God looking outward. For the questing and bright mind, those things can be captivating. I have a suggestion for you and I have something for you to think about and tuck away for to recall over the years. Rom. 1:19, 20 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, My suggestion is that you exercise your mind in studying His creation. The more we study what He has made, the more we see of Him there. I have found molecular biology to be particularly interesting. Find a book by Stephen Meyers called ’Signature in the Cell’. This will get you going and provide a path that will allow you to use that brain God gave you. Now for the other: a high level of intelligence enables you to ask great and deep questions, but it cannot give you the important answers. Only God, by His Spirit and the Life within you are capable of doing that. The Paraclete (Holy Spirit) was given after Christ was ascended. He was anxious to go to the Father, so that the Helper (Paraclete) would come and dwell in the Sons of God. Continually be before Him and always seeking the knowledge that He can provide. That knowledge will always be a deeper understanding of and walk with your Lord. This is the function of the Holy Spirit—to convict of sin and to point to Christ. As your heart is set on Him, He will direct your path in all things. There is no greater quest! Jesus Christ is the Logos—the ‘rational reason for all things’. Seek Him and He will answer the questions and satisfy you more than anything else in this present life. Apologetics are nothing compared to knowing Him. Beware of the pride of intelligence and tuck the following bit away and pull it out regularly. Post it on your desk and write it on the front page of your bible or the desktop of your computer. "Intelligence enables you to ask questions, but it doesn’t provide the answers." Trust me on this and don't forget it. When it comes to the things of the Lord—be like a little child. After all--you really aren't all that smart. :-) The fear (awe) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Let's talk in 10 years.

Are you saying that you don't sin? I am pretty sure that Paul, in that section of Rom. 7, is speaking in the present tense. My friend--if you believe that you never sin, then one day you are going to see differently. I fellowshipped for a few years with folks who held to the belief that 'sinless perfection' was attainable while still in these old bodies. There were all kinds of ways that they had convinced themselves it was true. The depth of this delusion and the blindness to their own shortcomings was an astounding thing to watch. I don't wish to 'prove' you wrong. Please believe that. I would however try to convince you to admit that you might be wrong on this point and to reconsider.

I heard that same bird nest illustration many moons ago. Thanks for the reminder.

I wonder. Has anyone in this subject mentioned that the language in 1 John seems to be saying that one born of God doesn't continue or abide in sin? Another way of saying this may be like so: one born of God doesn't take up an abode in sin or linger there. The balance of scripture and the experience of a myriad of sons of God seems to support this.

I see your point. Have a blessed day.