Indentured Servant

I find it sad that people depend on "doctrine" and not Scripture.... There is a passage in OT that depicts the faithful watching His wrath as it is occuring. He promises to protect us, if we trust Him, as we watch others being taken in His wrath. He also promises to eliminate fear during this. Knowing this eliminates the need to teach a doctrine of removing His people from the earth, only to return them to it. I figured, since He protected the three friends of Daniel in the middle of a horrific fire, then He can preserve us while executing His wrath on others. Of course, there are pseudo-scholars who will say that Psalm 91 is merely a promise that God will protect us from worldly harm, but that psalm is specifically about the time of His wrath, and is very specific to a singular event. Some are taken in His wrath, others are left... not 'behind,' as fictionalized interpretations dictate, but left "unharmed."

People also equate "(let there) be light" as an act of 'creation.' but in the original text, it reads, "be(come) light." It never says light was created, as it already existed. According to NASA, (I keep up on trivial research), Earth is the only planet that has rainbows.

Some things are to be shared, but not everything. If I shared everything He's told me, I'd have the majority of religious people hunting me down to silence me. One thing is certain, He does actively communicate with us. We just don't know how to listen, primarily because we pay the pulpit to interpret scripture for us, rather than the Spirit. And when the pulpit tells us that God only communicates through scripture, and not personally, then we learn to ignore Him.

This difference is intent. Are you doing it, as Scripture says, "in order to be seen," or are you simply more concerned about shining your light to even care if anyone is even watching? Do we shine God's Light, or our own?

Survival isn't the goal... Persevering until death, enduring at the threat of death, maintaining one's faith even as one is dying... is the only focus we should have. (Not all will die, but many will be killed.) My question is, do pre-tribbers know how to survive when they find out they've put their faith in a doctrine, not in God, Himself? If a mid or post-tribber is wrong, (and pretrib is somehow correct), they suffer no lost, because they were ready for anything. If a pretribber is wrong, they'll find themselves unprepared. Many of them will reject God's Word and God because their entire faith rested on something that wasn't true, and not on God's promise to look over them during the tribulation.

I do find it interesting that no one bases any doctrines on the fact that "church" is also not mentioned in: Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. If it's important to recognize that the word, "church," does not appear in certain chapters of one specific book, (Revelation), what does it mean that it also doesn't appear even once in ten entire books of the New Testament? Should we exempt ourselves from worrying about anything written in those books, also? Perhaps, we can create just one more schism in the body of Christ and make a whole new doctrinal narrative based on the absence of this word. Fortunately, if one would dare read these chapters missing the word "church," one would see that the faithful in Christ are indeed mentioned frequently in regards to the tribulation and events taking place on the earth... Contrary to that, it is most fascinating that the "church" is never mentioned in any references to heaven or included as any of the variety of heavenly population mentioned in those same chapters, either. Applying modern theological reasoning, the church doesn't ever seem to make it to heaven, at all... Unless they are dead...................

People prefer the "Rapture Doctrine" over the biblical rapture. Most of our understanding of rapture comes from a narrative derived from the manipulation of scripture and of people's minds. We believe what we're told to believe by our pulpiteers and authors of the various fictionalized interpretations from those who can only hyper-focus on out-of-context words and phrases taken out of scripture. How any times do we hear mantras like, "God will not appoint us to wrath," "Don't be Left Behind," "taken in the twinkling of an eye," "the Rapture is our blessed hope," "the (word) "church" isn't mentioned in certain chapters of Revelation," "He's not going to beat up his bride," and many religious quotes that reflect a complete misunderstanding of the end times, fostered by the repetition of the concept that believing anything else is heresy. Nobody in western Christianity has the courage to face, embrace, and chase the Truth because it would upend their lives... Loss of friends, family, job, reputation, etc. If we can be convinced that persecution, including death, is only mentioned in scripture for everyone else but the 21st century, western church goers, then we can be convinced that we can remain comfortable and oblivious to those who are suffering for their faith, and watching their family members get murdered for owning a bible in other countries. That is the persecution that we've been taught would never touch us. Oh, and then we believe rapture means a trip to heaven before those who e actually earned it. ...love your boldness to confront this errant, man-made doctrine. God bless.

Sometimes He uses dreams and visions to simply communicate with those who are visual communicators. It isn't miraculous, new communication, but sometimes just talking, teaching, leading. He says if we ask for it, He'll gives us answers, knowledge and wisdom. I took Him up on that offer. I pray like a seer, and ask for insight. I ask for His interpretation, as Daniel did, and He shows me where in Scripture He wants me to read, so He can give me a fuller understanding of what I am seeking from Him. Often, in such communication, He shows me an answer visually. His images illuminate Scripture, giving me a "first"look at a passage of scripture I've misunderstood for three and a half decades. I've had people warn me about being "in the Spirit," because they'd been taught that if someone connects to the spiritual realm, they are most likely being influenced by demons, or even Satan. I simply addressed the concern with Him, and He agreed to validate what He shows me. Still, I recognize that visions/dreams can mislead a person if they take them at face value without His interpretation.

I was in a study led by a retired pastor/church planter who taught that the no one knows why David wrote Psalm 22, stating nothing about David's life corresponded with this psalm. The recommended list of commentaries being used all agreed it is unknown. After I shared specifics from scripture, the group openly favored the lack of information in the commentaries. As for the old pastor, I later heard him mumble to himself, "hmm, this might be about Jesus." I get that people want to follow a human interpretation at the cost of ignoring Scripture, but I am always hopeful that there is someone bold enough who can break away from that and see what Scripture actually tells us... and be willing to discuss it. As far as the word harpazo, I guess there is still enough confusion that people are afraid to touch the topic from a scriptural perspective. Most would rather maintain their preferred doctrinal position and not look any further. Oh well, I tried. Thanks for your responses.

I had hoped that by asking the question in a short, simple manner would prevent it from being misunderstood. I have studied Greek for decades and can't understand why most bibles translate that single word with at least seven unrelated English words. There is no reason why it shouldn't be translated more consistently. Can it be translated with just one, or two two closely related, English words? If it is "caught up" four times, why not just say that in every instance? There is no grammatical reason to change the English meaning of a single word, when, in the Greek, it is still the same word, with the same meaning. In KJV: it is translated: "take by force," "spoil," catcheth away," "catcheth," "pluck," "caught up," and "pulling." In NIV: "raiding," "carry off," snatch away," "snatch up," "make by force," "attacks," "took away," "caught up," "snatching," "snatched up." In CSB: "seizing by force," "steal," snatch away," "take by force," "carried away," "take away," "caught up," and "snatching." The base word, harpazo, means to take, or to grab. For it to include "by force" in a translation, it would be repeated in the sentence, as harpazo harpazo. (A word is emphasized when used twice.) But why all the variations in any single bible translation? Do we believe that the word changes meaning depending on the subject of the sentence? That's certainly not how Greek Grammer works. Perhaps, we think this is so, but are unaware that the English translation is based on a preconceived notion that, in this case, literally masks the simpler meaning of this word. I just think it causes confusion about the meaning of the word harpazo. The word rapture is a transliteration of harpazo and is used fourteen times in the Latin scripture. I understand also that there is an English transliteration of harpazo, found in the word "harpoon," but I'm sure people wouldn't be so eager about being "harpooned." Why not just use the word 'rapture' or the actual meaning of the word, rather than words and phrases that often have little to nothing to do with the Greek word. I'm petitioning personal insights as to what others think of this. If you believe the single word harpazo has seven or eight distinct meanings in English, then so be it... I won't argue or debate, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever given this any thought.

How would you translate the Greek 'harpazo,' and would that translation be consistent with the fourteen uses in Scripture?

I don't perceive any stubbornness... It does seem to be a needless temptation from the perspective that Satan's rule will end; but, Jesus, the human, still had to overcome- Remember that He even asked if He could have the Father "take this cup from me," even though He knew what had to happen to Him. He was human flesh, which is inherently weak and prone to the temptation of self-preservation and success. He also taught us in this series of temptations about what should or shouldn't be important to us. No matter what Satan offers, one must know the struggle between temptation and willingness to suffer/die for something greater. In Jesus' case, Satan was an authority over all this. He could resist and conquer or save Himself to gain the world without having to die for it. Satan had the authority to give this to Jesus without a fight. But Jesus would have still been under Satan.

Many of us live, in your words, a "depleted" life. I certainly do. I've lost my family, (wife, kids, in-laws), siblings, jobs, money, friends, respect from my community, and my home. If I look at the losses, the struggles, and the emptiness, I do not feel that God is near... The truth is, He is closer than if I weren't struggling... During these times, I must remember that He is with me, offering me His strength, endurance, patience, and peace. I am in a ministry that focuses primarily on two specific quotes from Jesus: 1: "my burden is light, my yoke is easy;" and, 2: "Love God," and "Love your neighbor."

Many commentators, (& theologians), use other's commentaries to fill the gaps in their own understanding. They 'cut-and-paste' their doctrinal perspectives from these. Preachers are often the mouthpiece for the theologians, and often credit them for the things they teach from the pulpit. Seminaries model their curriculum after commentaries, rather than scripture, itself. It's no wonder that they don't familiarize themselves with the scripture, since they have an accepted source of interpretation, based on scholarly prowess.

Quite so, soteria is the word often translated as 'salvation/deliverance.' I'm wondering how one "works out" [Greek: katergazomai, 'work out,' 'accomplish.'] their own salvation/deliverance... How does one "accomplish" their own soteria? If salvation is free, without works, why are we told to "accomplish our own salvation?"

I like the parallels you've pointed out. I don't disagree, but perhaps one could be that He carried His cross for others as our cross should also be carried for others... Included with your well-stated offering. Thanks for your response

Thank you for this response... Wow, your list sounds like the last twelve months of my life...I have actually experienced the first four of the five statements you've made... Included in all that were three siblings, my adult children, wife, and the home I lived in. I've prayed that He'll grant me the last one, as well.

One may ask, "HOW do I deny myself? How would we answer? What exactly is meant by "taking up" (or carrying) a cross? There is also a verse that tells us to "work out our own salvation." What do each/all of these obscure statements actually mean?

Satan was given the right to grant those things to Jesus that it controlled. It was all going to belong to Jesus anyway, and He could have circumvented being crucified by accepting satan's offer. But, by doing it the "easy way" meant that He would have to bow to the one who gave it all to Him, causing Him to be ineligible to continue as our Savior. He had to overcome these temptations as a human, by exercising the Spirit within Him for strength to persevere until death.

I have this documented somewhere, but back in the days of Martin Luther, service times were originally at/around sunrise. Luther kept setting the start time back and continued till the start time was 11:00 am. He stopped setting it back because this was the latest it could possibly be and still be considered "morning worship." Why did he keep setting it back? He had trouble waking up on Sunday mornings due to his Saturday night drinking binges... He always had a hangover.

It isn't so much that we should "submit" to Him, but that we interact with Him, firstly. In a gathering of believers desiring to be "in the Spirit," the group, as One, should be able to discern spirits of those not welcome by the Spirit of God... Scripture does tell us to discern spirits... Learn, as individuals, how to "be with God," and then, as a group, request an audience with the King. It becomes easier with practice approaching God to then apply it to a group communication. The Spiritual Maxims by Brother Lawrence is a good starting point to learn how to meditate toward being "in the Spirit." If each individual of a group effectively uses this form of meditation, it will be more clear how to apply it as a group, and "submit" to Him.

This is correct; however, I do not typically reveal that God has called me according to the manifestation of the Spirit, ("gift") He has given me. It is not ever well received. Christians don't understand this, as most denominations teach that people like me can't exist, or that I am a phony for believing and engaging two-way communication with God. Scripture teaches we can seek His heart and His mind. We can ask for wisdom, insight, and gifts, "especially prophecy." These I have done. But to tell someone that I "have a calling from God to call Christians out of Christian Nationalism" comes across as arrogant, overly dramatic, and heretical... I'm sure you see my point, haha. I'm not here to offend anyone... But, if someone is offended, does that mean I no longer have a right to communicate a biblical message... Or even my own opinion? Or a sincere warning? If that's the case, perhaps we brought some of the mindset of the Church of England with us and still desire to control the religious beliefs and traditions of others who may not be conforming to our traditions. I've been clearly dismissed in this thread, therefore, I will respectfully make this my last post. I'm not here to debate or to proselyte.

Thank you for your considerate reply. I suppose we each have our own way to interpret (or accept) what we are taught by people who have interpreted what they've been taught by previous generations and differing perspectives. My apologies, I don't see what you see in scripture as "on Sunday," as I don't place my understanding of this based on English translations of the Bible nor on the potential for error in public speakers and theologians. I read scripture in Greek, (and Hebrew.) If my understanding is hindered in any way, I consult God. He has offered to teach us, give us wisdom and insight, only for the asking. In that, I took Him at His Word, and I always ask. I have not always believed as I do, now. I was a teacher, I've even preached, developed Bible study curriculum, and have written on various doctrinal studies. I find my past efforts, in the words of Solomon, as "meaningless." We all have our path, and sometimes it means having differing orientations on biblical knowledge. It is nice to know that we can still find respect in each other's walk.

No, same planet, different understanding... God personally brought His Chosen Nation out of Egypt; they didn't seek a new land due to not wanting their religion dictated to them. America is not a chosen nation... If you think it is, you are welcome to believe that. Please accept my apology for offending your beliefs. I truly did not intend it to become personal.

I do agree that we should always be thankful for what God has given. But, I don't believe God gave a bunch of restless Christians in England the right to leave their circumstance of being dictated to regarding their religion to make a home of an already occupied land and push the people in that nation into small desert communities. Essentially, we, as a nation, have committed genocide for OUR want of religious freedom, and THAT is it! In scripture, 90% of the tithe went to caring for the poor, the widows, and for the festivals ordained by God. Today, it is not uncommon for one man to receive more than 50% of the money intended for ministering to others. I've personally seen preachers who've received 95% of the tithe. Church marketing strategists are convincing pastors that they are entitled to up to 65% of the church's tithe. This is the same problem God has with the priests taking more than their share when He told them- the priests- "Bring all the tithe into the storehouse." They rob God... That statement was not issued to the people... Only the priests. We've spent so much on property, we could have solved the much of the problem feeding and clothing the poor. They do well to get an occasional small donation via third party organizations. But what are we concerned with? Knowing the right doctrine, preaching our rights as Americans, but not leading the people to learn and know God personally and allowing Him to teach us, meet with us, and provide HIS heavenly provision..... We claim heavenly freedom only as a by-word to our earthly rights as citizens in the world. Yes, I recognize and agree that we are IN this world... Our involvement should be minimal in this world's functions, and more toward the Kingdom of God.