Jedi4Yahweh

This happens after the 6th seal and just before the 7th seal is opened according Rev 6 and 7.

Its a little confusing reading it in KJV but it says after 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off, "threescore and two weeks" equals 62 weeks. "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." - Dan 9:24-27 ESV

Its based on the Daniel's 70 weeks of 7 years = 490 of when the Temple was to be rebuilt till its destruction/desolation (490 years). Each week equates to 7 years. 62 of those weeks is when the Messiah is cut off. 62 x 7 = 434 years, some say that comes out to around 30 AD. That leaves 7 more week of 7 years. 7 x 7 = 49 years. Which comes around the time of when the Temple was desolated by the Romans around 70 AD.

Can someone smart please show me the numbers of Daniels 70 weeks? Show me the calculations Note: Please refrain from posting website links....I rather you show me the calculations and explanation. Thank you! "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." - Dan 9:24-27 ESV From my understanding the 70 weeks is actually 70 weeks of 7 years or 70 x 7 = 490 years starting from the order to rebuild the temple till its desolation. From my understand this happened when King of Persia gave the order to Nehmayah to go rebuild the temple around 440ish BC but there are many conflicting dates for this decree ranging from 440 to 490BC. So our starting point is already fuzzy by 50+ or - years. It says after 62 weeks of 7 years the Messiah (Anointed One) will be cut off. 62 x 7 = 434 years . So if you subtract 440 BC (decree) - 434 = 6 BC??? If you calculate the other extremity 490 (decree) - 434 = 56 BC. None of those numbers add up to the time when Messiah was cut off historically. Here is another problem I am having, 62 week of years leaves 7 weeks of years to reconcile Daniels 70 weeks of years. 7 x 7 = 49 years. Why are some people saying this last 7 weeks of years equates to 7 years when it clearly equates 49 years if we are being consistent as with the 62 weeks of years? 70 x 7 = 490 years (Seventy weeks total) 62 x 7 = 434 years (Sixty-two weeks till Messiah is cut off) Daniels Final Week = 7 x 7 = 49 years not 7 years.

Yes, there were many Jews expecting the Messiah around that time. Especially according to Daniels prophecies. Daniels prophecy for one which stated that the Messiah would come be cut off after 62 weeks of 7 years from the order to rebuild the temple given to Nehimayah. That equites to 62 x 7 = 434 years after that order given. Some say that equates to around 30AD which is around the time Messiah started his ministry and was crucified. It also says after another week the Sanctuary (Temple) will be made desolate. If you calculate another set of 7 x 7 years = 49 yrs after the Messiah was cut off that the Romans desolated the (Sanctuary) Temple and cut off the sacrifices in 70 AD. Dispensationalist will argue with me on this and say this 7 set of weeks has not happened yet, leaving a 2000+ year gap, but that make no sense at all. "Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end [will come] with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations [will come] the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate." - Dan 9:26-27 NASB20

No accordance with Levitical law spelled out in Torah. The are many requirements before the proper levitical sacrificial system can be reimplemented. One of the big one's is the proper red heifer with out spot, in order to cleans the priest and tabernacle and all its equipment and utensils. No red heifer to date has been approved. There is also the issue of the ark of the covenant (some say not required/some say they already have it) but according to levitcal law the ark had to have blood applied to it by the high-priest once a year for the atonement of Israel.

God's literal name (YHVH) is used in the Tanakh over 7,000 times. I don't see anything in Torah stating we are not to use his literal name, we are just not allowed to use that name carelessly or wrongfully. The Torah does not prohibit, even Mishnah confirms there is no prohibition. This practice of removing his literal name and replacing with it Ha'shem or Adonai (Lord) is a Talmud tradition imposed on scripture. Are we to add or remove from the Torah? Here is a quote from Jewish Virtual Library: Pronouncing the Name of God Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple. The Mishnah confirms that there was no prohibition against pronouncing The Name in ancient times. In fact, the Mishnah recommends using God's Name as a routine greeting to a fellow Jew. Berakhot 9:5. However, by the time of the Talmud, it was the custom to use substitute Names for God. Some rabbis asserted that a person who pronounces YHVH according to its letters (instead of using a substitute) has no place in the World to Come, and should be put to death. Instead of pronouncing the four-letter Name, we usually substitute the Name "Adonai," or simply say "Ha-Shem" (lit. The Name).

Well thank you kindly. Well I don't follow rabbinical law Talmud/Mishnah, but I do follow Torah. I keep the feast, the sabbaths, eat clean foods, and even wear tzitzits (but mostly during feast and sabbaths). I am pretty Jewish according to American standards. Those scriptures do not say you are not allowed to use God's name it says you shall not use his name vainly. Meaning to use his name carelessly or wrongfully. We are given a clear picture of this: Now an Israelite woman's son, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the people of Israel. And the Israelite woman's son and a man of Israel fought in the camp, and the Israelite woman's son blasphemed the Name (ha'shem), and cursed. Then they brought him to Moses. His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan. And they put him in custody, till the will of YHVH should be clear to them. Then YHVH spoke to Moses, saying, "Bring out of the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his Elohim shall bear his sin. Whoever blasphemes the name of the YHVH shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. - Lev 24:10-16 Furthermore by removing Elohim's name that has meaning and replacing it with an empty title such as Ha'shem/The Name or Lord could also considered making his name vain [empty].

Let me ask you this, why is my view on Pre-wrath a concern to you? If am wrong and I am raptured out here before the tribulation...well Halleluyah! Lets say your wrong, think of all the people you mislead in how they would not face tribulation and persecution, and are now left unprepared to endure the things coming on this earth in the last days. Think of how many will give up, thinking they were deceived by their pastors, teachers, & friends, and now assume it was all a lie and end up giving into the beast system and taking the mark of the beast. I think this will be one of thy key elements that leads to a mass apostacy during the tribulation, because they assumed they would not see tribulation and persecution, because that was what they were taught in church's across the land, "I fly away ol' glory". Think of how many Christians will be offended and fall away under your pre-tribulation escape plan if it turns out to be false? Jesus warned us! All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. - Mat 24:8-10 KJV

I like how the Septuagint reads of Daniel 11:31 Dan 7:31 LXX And seeds shall spring up out of him, and they shall profane the sanctuary of strength, and they shall remove the perpetual [sacrifice], and make the abomination desolate. vs. Dan 7:31 KJV And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. It was not the Greeks (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) who made Jerusalem desolate and stopped the daily sacrifices but Titus of the Roman Army that desolated and stopped the daily sacrifices of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I would be very cautious in making that assumption. Religious leaders of Jesus's day tried to make that demonic connection to Jesus's miracles. The Pharisees and Scribes were calling Jesus miracles he performed were from Beelzebub the prince of demons. In essence they were calling the Holy Spirit a demonic spirit. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." ... And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. ... Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. - Mat 12:24, 27-28, 31-32 I think this is a very scary warning that we all need to listen to and take with much caution. I am not saying that everyone that speaks in an unknown language is of God but we have to use much decrement and caution and not assume just because born again believers are speaking in tounges its a kundalini spirit.

I never insinuated you where Catholic I just asked if you agreed with Augustine's other catholic based doctrines because Catholics love to quote Augustine as an authoritative source.

Me asking you for a sources is considered not being nice???

Catholics hold him to be a church father, because of some of the catholic claims made? Catholic bishops are well know for doctored/forged writings as well. Do you also agree with his stance on Purgatory, Praying for the Dead, Sinless Mary, Perpetual Virginity of Mary, if you do you will probably agree with his stance on cessation of gifts as well.

When you make claims the burden of proof falls on you, its lazy when you make claims and not back it up, but thanks for finally providing a link. Do you have others "Church Fathers" that make this claim, you mentioned several. --------- Augustine lived late 3rd and 4th century. He introduced a lot of catholic dogma into the church. I would say he is well known as a catholic church father, but not an authoritative church father. He believed and taught about Purgatory, Praying for the Dead, Believed in the Authority of the Catholic church, Sacraments and Penances for Sin, Believed in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, Mary was sinless, etc.... https://www.catholicfidelity.com/st-augustine-and-catholic-beliefs/ I would take anything he taught with a gain of salt filtered trough the truth of scriptures.

You made the claim now back up it up?

Sources and quotes?

And who are the church fathers you speak of and their sources?

In reference to the scripture you posted it was about people who speak against the Holy Spirit, not others. This was in reference when the Pharisees and Scribes were calling Jesus miracles he performed are from Beelzebub the prince of demons. They were calling the Holy Spirit a demonic spirit. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." ... And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. ... Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. - Mat 12:24, 27-28, 31-32 I think this is a very scary warning that we all need to listen to very carefully.

This vision of seeing the great multitude around God's throne that no man could number happens after the 6th seal as clearly stated in Rev 7. These are those who came out of the Great Tribulation. Believers are clearly seen in 5th seal being martyred and they being told to wait because more are to be martyred under the 6th seal. It is just before the 7th seal that we see the 144,000 Israelites sealed and protected and the great multitude of believers standing around the throne from all nation that came out of the Great Tribulation. The 7th seal is when God's Wrath is unleased on the World. True Christians will be in the Great Tribulation but they will not experience God's wrath under the 7th Seal because they are taken out just before 7th seal which is when God wrath starts.

You keep resorting to the same text (Rev 4 and 5) that says nothing about the Church raptured before the seals are opened. Also, Revelations 19 does not say the Church returns with Jesus in Rev 19 it says the Armies of Heaven. This is reference to the (Host of Heaven) which are Angels. This is even stated clearly in Mat 24. And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world--from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. - Mat 24:30-31 We don't "return" with him from heaven we "meet" him in the air at his coming. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1Th 4:15-17 KJV

Why do you always result to personal attacks and calling others not Jewish and "you guys know nothing", "we don't accept messianic Jews"? Why can't you just keep this civil about scripture instead of making personal attacks? Also, show me where we are not to use God's name? This is nothing more than Rabbinic tradition and found no were in Scripture. In fact the Tanakh use God's literal name over 5000 times in the Tanakh.

God spoke to King Ahaz about the northern Kingdom of Israel and Syria alliance would not conquer the Kingdom of Judea. This is obviously a messianic prophecy because this virgin was going to have child called Immanuel meaning "Elohim is with us" born in the Kingdom of Judea. No where do we find that this came true in Ahaz's lifetime. This is God's way telling King Ahaz to stop worrying and doubting God, the Kingdom of Judea is going to succeed and the Messiah born of virgin will come from your Kingdom. There will always be a descendant of David sitting on the throne here in Jerusalem. Kings and their officials will always ride in and out among the people of Judah in chariots and on horses, and this city will remain forever. - Jer 17:25 Did the above prophecy fail? Why were they born imperfect? Did God create man imperfect?

Adam's spirit was with God who gave it to him. My spirit came from God as well as yours. Flesh can not reproduce spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. - Jhn 3:6

It wasn't just the apostles speaking in tongues it was also people they preached that received the gift of speaking in tongues. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues - Act 10:44-46 KJV And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? - Act 11:15-17 KJV