wordsower

My belief is that these are those left behind in the rapture. Jesus said to pray that you be made worthy to escape the trouble coming on the earth, these weren't worthy and endure the AC and trouble, but if they hold to their confession and overcome the beast they will make it. Hope that doesn't open a can of worms. Butero, I think of God as hovering over time, seeing the entirety. He's not seeing us as saved then not saved, then saved. He is seeing us as pass or fail. No curve grading, either you will make a decision and be His or you wont. If you are one that the seed falls on but never grows, you were never rooted and therefore never saved, despite how much you acted like it. Like I mentioned Judas was a part of the 12, "following" Jesus but Jesus said he was a son of perdition from the foundation of the world...........he was never saved.

I think the parable of the prodigal son explains the issue of OSAS clearly. The son was "saved" got the "gifts" of salvation from his father, left, wasted them, wandered around in sin and rejection and then came to himself and returned. The father was waiting on the porch for him, looking for him, he knew he was coming back. God does not live in time, He just IS, that is why I believe in OSAS, simply that God knows what your decision is before you do and either you are saved or not in His eyes. Like Jesus said Judas was a son of perdition before the foundation of the world. To the other disciples I'm sure he looked saved but God already saw him as lost. Hope that makes sense.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (Daniel 9:24-27). seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks = 69 weeks (7+60+2) During this time Jesus has finished the transgression, made an end of sins and reconcilled iniquity, we are waiting for the AntiChrist to command to rebuild Jerusalem, and make a peace treaty and blow the deal half way through the 70th week and Armeggedon to happen. Condensed version...........helpful at all?

No rapture---wonder who all those saints are returning with Jesus. Do you read the bible or just listen to rhetoric?

An important issue that hasn't been addressed : For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. 30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. 31 If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; 32 but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. By not discerning the Lord's body the people were sick and dying! By discerning the body of Christ we acknowledge that His death brought healing "By His stripes you are healed." and His blood brought salvation. It is two fold because it deals with our physical body and our spirit. I believe we are to partake of communion to remind us of everything Jesus did for us and I believe that by receiving the body we can be made well if sick and also overcome infirmities in the flesh.

"In Christ" there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free............in Christ. Apart from "In Christ" all of the above mentioned are different. Be careful you don't get confused.

Sweetie, Remember in one of the gospels(I should have looked it up) when the disciples were asking Jesus what sin the parents had committed of this certain young man to make him the way he was? (I think it was lame or blind, or both, maybe mute---anyway, he wasn't right) Jesus answered them and said, it had nothing to do with what his parents did. The rain falls on the righteous and the unrighteous alike. Sometime circumstances are what they are because of choices we make, or because there is evil in the world. Satan is the ruler of this world, don't forget that. The disciples were sawn in two, crucified, boiled in oil, stoned............these are the disciples! We aren't promised an easy ride. We ARE promised that God will work it all out for good. Could be that your husband is used of God mightily in jail. I'm in a Celebrate Recovery program at church and we recently had a man come in after spending a lot of years in jail and his testimony was awesome. I pray the very best for you. Keep running the race and in the grand scheme of things this life will be the vapor that it is in perspective. Blessings!

rollingTHUNDER! What'sup? Haven't heard fromyou in a while. Hey, I'll see you in the clouds when we get raptured, no sense in debating, when we go there wont be any doubt.

I'm agreeing with Tubal Cain....IT MUST BE THE LAST DAYS!!! I sure hope so.

I think it's simple: God gave us dominion over this earth, way back in the garden. We are to blame for the mess, not God.

I used to believe that until I actually prayed about it and asked God to please present the truth of the matter to me clearly. Couple of days later I was invited to a church study on the 10 virgins. Condensed: All were invited, all were somewhat ready, some went, some stayed. Luke says, Pray that you be counted worthy to escape the tribulation coming on the earth. I believe some christians will be left behind and endure to the end and still be saved in the millineum. I believe some will be accounted worthy to escape. Just as Enoch and Elijah were the only two taken up, I don't think it will be that many.

I'm not Ruth, but I don't want you confused. Our very best effort at being holy is as filthy rags to God. You can't, not, sin if you try your hardest, this is why Jesus' blood covers our sin, so when God looks at us He sees us without sin! Best news ever and I never get over it.

I saw something on Fox news not long ago about this. They said the bees have an equivalent immune problem as aids is to humans and they can not fight off the simplest "bee illnesses"--whatever they might bee <-- tee hee buzzing cough? Seriously, if we have no bees we can't get the food pollenated and we have no food. I read somewhere there is a famine coming, oh yeah, that was in the Bible.

Nope, Nope, In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, free nor slave, we are one in Christ and if we try to keep the law we are required to keep the whole law or be lost. Jesus is our new high priest and where there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessity that there be a change in the law. Love God.........Love your neighbor---that's the law.

Mikado, Think about the BIG picture. 50 years from now,who is really gonna care? Life is too short for that nonsense!

I saw the end of it, with Rick Warren and the Catholic and Rabbi debating---wish they had Jakes or Paula debating with the Rabbi! I thought it was ok, the title caught my eye since i rarely watch CNN. Was the host christian? Seemed to be. Well, Easter was great, my son got saved!!!!!! Hallelujia! Trust in the Lord and you and your house will be saved, it's true!

Vickilynn, I did a lot of studying up on them when I left the SDA church. They were a little too pharisee like to me, so sure they are right and everone else is wrong, too much like the SDA's , but I'm sure each one is different. I ended up in a Bapticostal church.

oops,forgot no killing,guess I got 11 commandments. Is that an A+ ? (Or an F?) Are we grading on a sliding scale here?

no other Gods no graven images no lying no stealing no jealousy/covet no adultery remember the Sabbath no false witness obey parents no taking the Name of the Lord in vain did I pass?

A religious spirit would want you to focus on your good behavior, your traditions, your "correctness", your rules and beliefs, anything other than focusing on Jesus. When "religious" people are focused on these things they become arrogant, look down on those that downt see eye to eye and are what Jesus called the Pharisees in His time.

Yep, click on the link below in my signature.

What about the souls already in heaven? Revelation says they cry out with a loud voice and their bodies haven't been resurrected yet. I personally think we only need the resurrected bodies so that we can reign with Christ on the earth during the millineum.

Fiosh, We live in a very limited 3 dimension understanding of existance. Our world is physical but I do not believe heaven is. Heaven is spiritual, not 3 dimensional, not existing in time, but at the same time, I think the spiritual is more "real" than the natural. It is too large for us to comprehend because we do not have anything to compare it to. Sometimes I think maybe dreams are similar. You know how they are so real and you transfer from one place to the next without really travelling and 8 hours passes by seeming to be in a snap? I think the spiritual world maybe be similar to that. All that to say that blood is physical and I don't think heaven is.

Romans 14 says, who are we to judge another one? The Lord will make each individual able to stand, speaking directly about foods and the day one worships. There is such a spirit of arrogance on this subject and it is directly opposed to the Spirit of humility we are called to have. Warnings about dangerous ground and deception and error are condescending, judgemental and wrong. The objective to be right offends. Our objective should be to lift Jesus up and let the Holy Spirit convict.

When I was five years old, my mother joined the Seventh-day Adventist church. I was at the end of my kindergarten year and about to graduate into first grade. I remember going to a big auditorium and seeing my mother being baptized. I didn't know how dramatically this would impact my entire life. I attended SDA schools 1st-12th and was baptized at the age of ten. I was obedient for the most part, I believed in the church as I grew older, but so many questions were always in my mind. At around age 11, I had a terrible stomach ache and prayed to God that if He would take my stomach ache away I would read the Bible everyday for the rest of my life. It immediately went away and I had a promise to keep, praise the Lord for that stomach ache! For the next 9 or 10years I kept my promise and at times the scriptures troubled me. I remember around the 9th grade reading Romans 14 and feeling very confused. Paul says "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems everyday alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day observes it to the Lord" I thought, well that seems pretty clear but surely it doesn't mean what I think it means. Then he went on to say he considers nothing unclean in itself..... These verses troubled me, lots of things troubled me. I thought about Billy Graham and what a great man of God he seemed to be and thought, "Why doesn't he know about the sabbath?" I'd pass a church of some other denomination and see it being built on to and think, "Why are they being blessed with more members?" As I got older I started noticing the attitudes and lives of other christians and could see and feel their joy and when I went to my own church I saw a group of people with solemn faces, little emotion, they all seemed so sad to me. I knew I was sad but it must be because I wasn't trying hard enough to be close to God. I tried to read the Bible but it became a chore and I tried to read Ellen White but even as a child I didn't like her and could never seem to find any common ground with her. She seemed like an extremist to me and I avoided her. Some years later my neighbors invited me to church, after saying no several times I finally agreed to go. I could see somethig very different with these people...........long story short.........I wanted to "save " them from their error. I got my Bible out and looked up every scripture I could find under sabbath, then commandment, then law. As I read the words before me I couldn't believe my eyes! I was reading about faith and grace and old covenent and new covenent and laws of Moses and Commandments left after the cross and I prayed, "God, show me the sabbath so that I can enlighten these people. Lord, they're good people and they need the truth, help me out here!" I still read what I thought to be saying I am under grace and not works or the law. I was at work on a Tuesday before lunch and got the dreaded call from daycare that my son was sick and I had to pick him up. I seldom miss work and I never like to be out, but I had to go home. I picked my son up and he was sick! I prayed for the Lord to make him well so I could go to work the next morning, I had faith and I got up Wednesday at the regular time to get ready and he was still sick. I took the opportunity to study my Bible some more. This went on for the rest of the week. At some point in the week I changed my prayer to: "God, I want to do your will, these scriptures seem to be pointing me to something I've never been taught and I need to know this is your will. Whatever your will is, I want to do it." He led me to scripture after scripture explaining to me so plainly that Jesus died on the cross to save me from my sin and the ordinances of the law and that was the only thing that could save me! I felt like a million pounds had been lifted off of me and I was so happy and excited, I just had to call everyone and tell them! I called my cousin who recently started going back to the SDA church about my revelation and she assured me that I still had to keep the 4th commandment despite the grace. I knew it didn't say in there anywhere that I had to go to church on Sunday, so was she right? I searched some more and prayed and found Hebrews 4:4-9: For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; and again in this place: They shall not enter My Rest." Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and to those whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, he He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. WOW!!!! It wasn't a day, it was a permanent peace, a rest like you can never know until you've been saved by grace! I noticed it was capitalized too. I prayed, "Lord, let me know without a shadow of a doubt that it is true!" Next, he sent me to Hebrews 10:32&35: ( But recall the former days in which after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and enduring possesion for yourselves in heaven. Therefore, do not cast away your confidence which has great reward.) I can not describe to you what I felt when I read those verses, every hair on me stood up, every chill bump came up and the presence of God was so strong I can not find words to describe it. Of course I had years and years of "truth" drilled into me and I still doubted that I was understanding everything. Maybe I should still go to church on the Sabbath. Satan always works hard at stealing our joy and he hates truth, but God is so faithful in revealing His truth to those who honestly seek His face. A couple of days later my neighbor's sister- in-law, who I had met only once briefly, came to her house to visit. My husband and I were sitting on the front porch, it was a Sunday night and we had been going to the Sunday night service but for some reason we didn't go this time. She asked if I knew where they were and I told her they were at church still but should be getting out soon and she and her husband were welcomed to wait at our house until they returned. Almost immediatlely we began talking and sharing about God and she gave me an awesome testimony of how she had come to know Christ, so I shared mine and she got this excited look on her face and said, oh, let me tell you about my experience with the Seventh-day Adventists. She said she had gone to a Revelation Seminar and had really been captivated by the teachings and was nearing the end of the week and thought she should join the church. She said she was so troubled by the fact that she had never heard these teachings and really prayed for direction in her decision. She said she had really prayed about it and just didn't feel quite sure, so almost at the end of the seminar she was driving along in her car praying for God to just speak to her and let her know for sure this was what He wanted her to do. Then she heard 2 Peter 3:14. She didn't recognize the verse and kept praying, then she heard it again so strongly she said she had to pull over and get her Bible out and see what the verse said. It reads: Therefore beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and forever, Amen. She never went back and I never doubted again! If you have any doubt in your life about anything, claim this promise with faith: James 1:5-7 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; Shortly after this I had a dream. It was simply a large hand (definately God's hand) drawing a picture of two parralel lines with dirt in the middle of them and drawing specks in the dirt and small circles on either side of the lines. It was very vivid and kept coming back to me so I prayed for meaning. A couple of days later I was getting into my car and noticed the Bible in the back seat was opened. I had not remembered it being opened. In a hurry, I took my son to daycare and when I was getting back into the car I noticed it again so I picked it up, curious to see what it was opened to. It was Mark 4-The Parable of the Soils! After reading it over and over for a few days I still did not understand the meaning. Then the last time I looked I noticed verses 13 and 14 which I hadn't read to yet. It says: ..."Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the Word." Wow! Written in red and spoken by Jesus! I said OK, so show me how to sow the Word! That night SDA Outreach e-mailed me in response to an e-mail I had written thanking them for their site and content and asked me to consider posting my testimony anonymously. Needless to say, I posted but definately not anonymously. I praise God for using me to share with so many and thank Him for entrusting me to sow His Word. Don't ever take a person's word for anything! There is one word, the Word of God. Within that Word is everything you need to know and God is so willing to show it to you, all you have to do is ask, without doubting! God Bless you all and may the Spirit of Truth guide you and keep you from all deception.