methinkshe

"Fruit" is used here as a singular, collective noun and is therefore correctly followed by "is". If one were to look at, say, an apple tree, one would say: "Hey, look at all the fruit on that tree!" and not "look at all the fruitS on that tree!" As with many fruit trees, some of the apples grows large and ripe, while some don't flourish so well because, for instance, they don't get enough light. I think that's how the fruit of the Spirit grows in our lives. And if in some areas our fruit is small and sour, perhaps that area of our lives is in need of more of the Light of Jesus. In Jesus, Ruth

The following quote is attributed to Benny Hinn: "I use Hypnosis Techniques to make people feel better at my crusades." See also the following article: Benny Hinn: Healer or Hypnotist? Each of us must individually test the spirits to see whether they are of God. In Jesus, Ruth Ok, I still have yet to see where Benny Hinn himself said that he uses hypnosis...and are you saying that being "slain in the spirit" is wrong??? because if so, go and read your bible some more because people fell under the power of God all the time... Benny Hinn admits to using hypnosis techniques in an HBO Documentary A Question of Miracles Yes, you have correctly understood that I do not believe that people are "slain in the spirit" by the power of the Holy Spirit. There is no Scriptural precedent for the Holy Spirit causing believers to fall over backwards as the following article makes very plain. SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT In Jesus, Ruth Then can I ask for the link to that HBO special where he himself said it please because I have searched his site and he does not say it anywhere.... The following is a link from where the documentary can be obtained: A Question of Miracles Let Us Reason Ministries, the website I linked for the Slain in the Spirit article, is a useful resource for researching apostasy in the church. Their Statement of Faith found on the Home page is full and doctrinally sound and their research is good and well documented. Also on the Home page can be found their Purpose and About the Director, who was brought up Jewish. He has an interesting testimony - worth reading - which explains the burden he has for exposing false doctrine in the church and evangelizing those ensnared in cults. I have found all their arguments to be well grounded in Scripture, and recommend the site to anyone who wants to research extra-Biblical phenomena. In Jesus, Ruth

The following quote is attributed to Benny Hinn: "I use Hypnosis Techniques to make people feel better at my crusades." See also the following article: Benny Hinn: Healer or Hypnotist? Each of us must individually test the spirits to see whether they are of God. In Jesus, Ruth Ok, I still have yet to see where Benny Hinn himself said that he uses hypnosis...and are you saying that being "slain in the spirit" is wrong??? because if so, go and read your bible some more because people fell under the power of God all the time... Benny Hinn admits to using hypnosis techniques in an HBO Documentary A Question of Miracles Yes, you have correctly understood that I do not believe that people are "slain in the spirit" by the power of the Holy Spirit. There is no Scriptural precedent for the Holy Spirit causing believers to fall over backwards as the following article makes very plain. SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT In Jesus, Ruth

Just Google Mount St Helen's and rapid sedimentaion, and haemoglobin in dinosaur bones, and then re-evaluate. As I keep on repeating, we do not believe what we see, we see what we believe. Ruth This is interesting. I understand where you are coming from, but even the article stated that this was an "exceptional example". If compared to the size of the Grand Canyon or Palo Duro Canyon (which I live about 20 miles from) then this process could not have been the case. They are much too large. When the article stated that Mt. St. Helens was a "miniature Grand Canyon" they forgot to emphasize the word "miniature". But I haven't really done any hard studying on this subject so I will dive into it soon and get back to you. Is there any evidence that this rapid erosion could have happened in the Grand Canyon or the Palo Duro Canyon? Catastrophes are always exceptional. The Flood was a catastrophe. Volcanic eruptions are catastrophic. The recent Mount St Helen's rapid sedimentation was the result of a catastrophic event. The point is that catastrophic events can cause geological changes in ONE DAY that might otherwise take 1000 years of slow deposition via erosion. Ruth

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. In Jesus, Ruth

Just Google Mount St Helen's and rapid sedimentaion, and haemoglobin in dinosaur bones, and then re-evaluate. As I keep on repeating, we do not believe what we see, we see what we believe. Ruth

That dream is the truth about the power of prayer under spiritual warfare and the power fear is given when faith and prayer are absent. It is a redundant cycle, demons are relentless and spiritual warfare will be increased, as in her dream, the closer we get to the end times, as predicted in the Bible. Thank you for your confirmation, None. That is how I understood the dream, too. The speed-boat and man-made canal spoke very much to me of man-devised techniques. There are no man-devised techniques that we can use against principalities and powers, only prayer and the authority we have in Jesus. In Jesus, Ruth

Well I'll answer your question since I'll be ignoring HE. I would say the answer is yes. The reason is that as I and others have asked HE, is the creation timeline 6 literal days or not. Did Noah get everything on the Ark? Are there two creation stories in Genesis? The answers are really irrelevant because you can find multiple interpretations. Therefore, in light of some of these major issues being subject to interpretation, why is evolution not part of that mix? Last I checked, there was no final judge as to who has the correct version of the bible. And if there were a correct understanding we would have no denominations, and no need for bible study. Everything would be crystal clear and unambiguous. Stacy=june 4 2007 John 3;16 will explain the salvation part of your question 'methinkshe' if you are a bible believer, So if you want to believe in evolution you can if you want to. But I think your taking christianity out of context. Being a Christian is a journey of its own. As you learn more about God and begain to blieve in him more, the evolution therory takes on a life of its own. evolve- to cause to come forth qradually into being, develop. I have a question for you 'methinkshe' do you believe you evolved from an animal. love stacy Absolutely not! I gave my opinion in Post #125. My "squeak, squeak" post was just an attempt to get the debate back on track and answer the original question posed by undone. Thank you, anyway, for taking the time to respond. In Jesus, Ruth

The following quote is attributed to Benny Hinn: "I use Hypnosis Techniques to make people feel better at my crusades." See also the following article: Benny Hinn: Healer or Hypnotist? Each of us must individually test the spirits to see whether they are of God. In Jesus, Ruth

Amen! In Jesus, Ruth

More squeak, squeaks! Just taking another peek! I see that we are still discussing the merits or otherwise of evolution and not whether someone can be a "saved" Christian and still give merit to evolution - the OP. I'll return when the debate is back on track. For the time being, blessings in Jesus, Ruth

One of those thumbs up thingies because I don't know (nor really want to learn) how to do those emoti-thingummijigs! I agree! In Jesus, Ruth

Yes Ma'am! All glory belongs to Jesus! However, I do admire your obedience to share what He'd have you share. LOL, thankyou! In the UK, only the Queen is addressed as Ma'am, these days. I feel quite royal. But, then again, we are a royal priesthood, are we not? 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" God bless you, Ruth

Dear Dugmando and Lovinghim4ever, I am joyful in Jesus that you appreciate my post, but please remember that if there is any wisdom in my words, it is of and from and by the Holy Spirit, for I am an unwise and foolish old (well, middle-aged) woman in my flesh - but we won't go into that here! I always (well, nearly always) pray that the Lord will give me the words to speak when I respond to any post. Sometimes I get carried away by frustration and anger and post from the flesh and then my posts are anything but wise. I take full responsibility for such posts. But all glory belongs to Jesus for any words that I speak that have any wisdom about them. All glory to Jesus, Ruth

I posted the following in The Universal Moral Law in response to a similar debate. It seems pertinent to repost it here. I know a wonderful brother in the Lord whose 17 yr old son recently committed suicide. He had previously acknowledged Jesus as his Saviour but for a few months had become entangled with a girl who, from what his parents are able to gather, introduced him to cannabis which appears to have had the most terrible effect on this young man. His father believes, as do I, that His former confession of faith in Jesus as Saviour will determine his eternal state. My uncle also committed suicide - he was a professed atheist. But even in his case, I could never say for certain that he didn't meet the Lord Jesus a few moments before death. After all, the thief on the cross alongside Jesus didn't have very long to repent. I often speak to people who are terrified of committing their lives to Jesus because someone they love dearly has committed suicide or died, as far as they know without accepting Jesus as Saviour. They almost feel it would be a betrayal if they were to accept the Lord when their loved one has gone before and possibly to hell. I always explain that we can never know what occurs during the last few minutes of a person's life, and therefore they should allow that there is, at least, a possibility that their loved one met the Lord Jesus and called on Him to save them just before the moment of death. To then refuse the salvation that Jesus offers because it would seem like a betrayal, would be very foolish. In Jesus, Ruth I would add to that the following: Because we can never know what occurs in the few moments before death, preaching the Gospel is never wasted, even though it seems that at the time, the person to whom we speak has no interest or even totally denies Jesus. We can never know that such a small seed, maybe sown many years previously, may not be sufficient to provoke in a person on their deathbed, a memory of who Jesus is and what He has done, so that they call on the Lord to be saved. But if we never tell them, they cannot know.

I have met so many dear Christians like you who have come under condemnation and fear and dread of having either knowingly or unknowingly committed the unpardonable sin. They live in a state of permanent fear. Their lives are wretched and miserable. How does this fit in with "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1.? It doesn't. Therefore, IF (and there is) NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, then condemnation can ONLY exist for those who are NOT in Christ Jesus. And who are those who are NOT in Christ Jesus? Those who have not believed what the Spirit of Truth testifies concerning Jesus, and repented and been born again of the Spirit. This is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father, to disbelieve His testimony concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, which is, in effect, to call the Holy Spirit a liar. Those who are IN Jesus (i.e. who have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus) need have no fear that they have committed an unpardonable sin. Peace and blessings in our dearest Lord Jesus Christ, Ruth

Thank you. Yes, we do believe that at the present time the Lord would have us stay there and pray for our pastor and his family, but I don't think it will be for very much longer unless things change radically. Of course, my children are now all old enough to decide for themselves, but we are very much of one mind in this matter, so although I may decide to leave before they do, for the sake of my disabled daughter who has limited understanding and is therefore far more susceptible to false teaching than her older siblings, I believe we shall all act as the Holy Spirit leads. I think perhaps we could apply the Scripture about restoring a brother. The one that speaks of warning 3 times and then removing him from fellowship or, in this case, removing ourselves. I can't remember the name and address of this verse - as usual! Perhaps someone else can help. In Jesus, Ruth Ruth, is this the verse you had in mind? Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Or perhaps this? Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Hmm, I was about to post, when I feel strongly I should add: Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Yes, Titus 3:10 was the verse I was thinking of. But they are all helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to look them up and post them. And Eric, thank you for your prayers. I'm glad you understand our dilemma - it isn't easy, but I'm trusting the Lord to guide us every step of the way. We must neither run before Him, nor lag behind. We believe the Lord brought us to this fellowship and maybe this is the reason why, so that we could be salt and light when they most needed. In Jesus, Ruth

Yes, he is confused - His heart is for the Lord and He has this yearning desire to serve the Lord but he's been sidetracked. The fellowship is just an informal gathering of Christians that meets in the Town Hall on Sundays and in people's homes during the week. So many of the established churches in our area are liberal to the point of denying half the Bible, or totally dead with a handful of eighty year olds for a congregation who attend more from habit than conviction, which is why this man started a church for those who believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God and who want to grow as Christians and not just attend Sunday morning worship as a sop to conscience or habit. So he has no formal Bible training, has a full time job as well as leading the fellowship, and is probably struggling with his workload. I am sure that his departure from sound doctrine has more to do with naivety than knowing and wilful disobedience to God's Word. And he has definitely been infected through attending that Benny Hinn Conference - there was a noticeable change in his demeanour when he returned. It is for that reason that we are hanging on in there for a couple more weeks - or until the Lord either calls one or all of us to confront him or to "shake the dust from our feet" and walk away. There are so many young Christians who attend - young in the Lord as well as years, who are in desperate need of sound teaching, that we feel we should not abandon them to this false teaching without first having made every effort through prayer and whatever else the Lord leads us to do, to open their spiritual eyes. The way I see it is this: it is as though the Pastor was leading the fellowship along a long, straight, narrow road and they came to a place where the road passed through a rather dry and bare landscape. Looking to the left, the Pastor saw in the distance, a beautiful orange grove, with lush trees and ripe fruit. Anxious to be out of the dryness, he veered off the road, across country, and headed for the orange grove. He has yet to realise that it is a mirage, and that sometimes the Lord DOES lead his people through dry and dusty places on His straight and narrow road, because he has lessons they can learn in those wilderness times, not the least, patience and perseverance. At the moment I feel we are calling out to him from the road, begging him to hear and turn around. Soon it will be time for us to continue our journey, but we must stand and call him for just a little longer. Maybe, even if the Pastor does not hear, one or two stragglers will hear and turn around and come back to the straight and narrow road. Thank you for your prayers. Your love in Jesus is so appreciated. In Jesus, Ruth

Thank you. Yes, we do believe that at the present time the Lord would have us stay there and pray for our pastor and his family, but I don't think it will be for very much longer unless things change radically. Of course, my children are now all old enough to decide for themselves, but we are very much of one mind in this matter, so although I may decide to leave before they do, for the sake of my disabled daughter who has limited understanding and is therefore far more susceptible to false teaching than her older siblings, I believe we shall all act as the Holy Spirit leads. I think perhaps we could apply the Scripture about restoring a brother. The one that speaks of warning 3 times and then removing him from fellowship or, in this case, removing ourselves. I can't remember the name and address of this verse - as usual! Perhaps someone else can help. In Jesus, Ruth

Though it does sound logical, it doesn't fit the context of what Jesus said, and why He said it. That may indeed be a part of it, but I think the sin was defined by the context in which Jesus chose to discuss it. Without the context, I suppose you could attach whatever meaning makes the most sense - but in context, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, as has been stated, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan. If that is a true understanding, then I would hazard a guess that an awful lot of believers, before they were born again, committed the unforgivable sin. Can you honestly say, without any doubt, that while you were still in unbelief, that you NEVER, EVER, EVER, knowingly or otherwise, attributed to Satan a work of God (and/or the Holy Spirit - they are, let us never forget, three in one and one in three)? Did you, for instance, ever believe in evolution and that God did not create the world but that it formed itself through random chance? Would this not be to attribute the work of God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - to Satan? For blind chance has no identity and whatever is not of God is of the devil. Then by your understanding, you can never be forgiven and your faith in Jesus is in vain. And even if you, personally, did not attribute God's creation to Satan there are many other believers who have, in their unbelieving state. Think of the endless possibilities that a person has, whilst in unbelief, to attribute the works of God to Satan. Are you really claiming that such a person cannot be forgiven when they come to believe in the Lord Jesus and repent of their sins? Are you telling me that murder is forgiven, rape is forgiven, but if a person in their ignorance and unbelief once said that such and such was not the work of God the Holy Spirit, it was the work of Satan, that they cannot be forgiven that sin, and are therefore condemned to eternal damnation? I guess I'd better give up right now, in that case. For there is no way that I can claim for certainty that I have never, when I was living in ignorance and unbelief, attributed a work of God to Satan. Sorry, but I do not accept your understadning. It conflicts with the WHOLE counsel of Scripture. In Jesus, Ruth

Please don't be sorry - your bluntness is refreshing! It is because so many men of God refuse to stand up and be counted and confront these false spirits that they are having such a hay-day in the church. I know that very soon we will have to confront our pastor, and indeed, one of my boys has already done so regarding the "slain in the spirit" stuff but apparently the pastor ran verbal rings round him by quoting Scriptures out of context. I hesitate for the moment because I have not heard the Spirit telling me to confront him, although that day may yet come - and soon. Also I would prefer that the confrontation is done by a man, and I do not have a believing husband. But my boys, although young in the Lord, are reading their Bible's like thirsty men in a desert, and their hearts are strong for Jesus and the truth of God's Word. I pray the Holy Spirit will give one of them the right words to speak to our pastor. Interestingly, one of my daughters had an amazing dream that same Friday evening, which I am convinced was from the Lord. She dreamt that she was staying in a holiday cottage with members of the fellowship. There was a common knowledge that every night at 3 a.m. they would suffer a horrific demonic attack. In her dream my daughter sweated in prayer, coming against these attacks in the name of Jesus. And the demons would leave. However, the members of the fellowship (largely led by women because the men appeared to be hovering on the sidelines, just tagging along) would see that the time was nearing 3 a.m. and rise from their beds in panic and say: "Quick, quick, the demons are coming. He have to get down to the River of God" Then they'd rush to this "river" (with my daughter tagging along at a distance) which turned out to be a deep and narrow man-made canal, with high muddy banks. Once there, they'd all jump onto a speed boat and make off down the canal through a barren landscape. But on the way, they'd come across muddy barrages that blocked their way and would have to jump out of the boat and with their bare hands dig away at these barrages, getting filthy in the process. When they returned to the house, it was as though they were drunk, although no alcohol had been consumed. My daughter recalls that in her dream she was so frustrated with their antics because they danced around and shouted and acted drunk, especially the men, and she could get no rest. Night after night the same process was repeated. And my daughter could not understand why they didn't just pray, as she did, to stop these attacks, and why they had to rush to this river/canal. One of the things that saddens me is that it is a small fellowship of very young-in-the-Lord believers. There is an older couple who take on a lot of eldership responsibilities, but they have been on holiday for the past two weeks when this extra-Biblical stuff has really come to the fore. So there's not much of a congregation left that is not deeply enmired in the same deception as our pastor. I'm trying to seek out those who have not fallen for it, but I think they are very few. Still, "the fervent prayers of a righteous man accomplish much...." hope I've remembered that verse correctly! And hid in Jesus, I and my family are "righteous men and women," and we are certainly praying fervently. Please pray with us. In Jesus, Ruth

My family began attending a small fellowship a couple of months ago. The pastor and His family really radiated the love of Jesus. He spoke of his desire that the church should move forward powerfully in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. His sermons were Scripturally based and I had no problem with his teaching. I found the modern worship not totally to my taste, but thought I was just being old-fogeyish. I was never over-keen on overbearing drums and heavy guitar strumming, and singing choruses repetitively but, hey, got to move with the times, I thought. Three weeks ago the Pastor and his family attended a Benny Hinn conference and came back with glowing reports of his powerful ministry. Last Sunday it seemed to me that the music was deliberately being used to conjure up a mood/atmosphere. Changes in tempo were used to manipulate the congregation into, say, an almost dreamlike state by the repetitive playing and singing of single-concept chorusus and then charge them up with a high tempo, heavy beat song to get people dancing. What I felt were rather pointed comments directed at my family were made about allowing ourselves to "let go" and be "free" in our worship and not mind what other people think, but to dance around the church and wave our hands around. Apparently, some of us were "inhibited" by "spiritual pride" or "self-conciousness" or "a religious spirit". Anyway, this long session of music culminated in people going foward for prayer from the pastor who laid a hand on their forehead, and they fell backwards - although "laid a hand" does not accurately describe what looked to me more like a hefty push. One poor girl who steadfastly stood was told to close her eyes while the pastor was joined by another prayer partner and between them they began to rock her back and forth until, not unnaturally, she fell over. When I got home I did a lot of research on Benny Hinn and was not suprised to discover that the suggestion techniques he uses including music and lighting, which result in mass falling down, are no different to those used by any stage hypnotist - beginning with Mesmer. Our pastor was convinced that it was by the power of the Holy Spirit that people were falling down and twitching convulsively on the floor for up to ten minutes. I urged my family to pray urgently that our Pastor would have his eyes opened to the hypnotic practices employed by Benny Hinn and stop imitating them in our fellowship. For some reason, this week our Pastor decided to change Sunday morning worship to Friday evening, which meant I couldn't attend because of baby-sitting duties. However, four of my children - 19 yrs upwards, did attend. They had no objections to the worship until about halfway through when the pastor whispered something to the drummer. There followed 10 minutes of steady drumming interspersed by the drummer shouting out from time to time: Jesus! Come spirit! More! More! My children literally shuddered. It was as though, they told me afterwards, they were summoning the Holy Spirit with drumming and shouting - as though the Holy Spirit should or even can be summoned by mere men! It reminded them of an African ritual tribal dance where drumming is used to bring about a trance and summon the spirits until they enter the shaman and he starts speaking through the spirits. They had no doubt that if an African tribesman, accustomed to such rituals, had walked into the church at that moment, and been asked whether he knew what was going on, that he would have had no difficulty in identifying the pastor as the shaman and the drumming as a means of calling up the spirits. He could then have predicted that the shaman would begin to "prophesy" or speak under the influence of the spirits, and onlookers who were touched by him would fall or convulse or manifest other signs of powerful spiritual influences. Which is exactly what happened next in the church when people were called forward to be "prayed" for, lined up, and fell over backwards as the pastor went along the line clappping his hand on their foreheads. One chap (who has apparently been saved for five years and is the worship group leader) found the pastor's fist pushed up into his solar plexus and began making choking sounds. I have watched him do this on several previoous occasions when he has been prayed for. Apparently he is manifesting deliverance from an unclean spirit or some spiritual stronghold. One of my daughters saw demons manifest and swarm around those being prayed for. Another daughter began shivering even though just ten minutes earlier she had been too warm. My two sons prayed for the Lord to protect them. How is it possible for believers to be so deceived, for I have no doubt that the Pastor and his family are born again believers? At the moment none of my family believe the Lord is calling us to leave the fellowship, but rather to pray that the eyes of the Pastor and his family will be opened. It seems to me that Benny Hinn has a lot to answer for and, sadly, so will our Pastor if he persists with this deviation into hypnotism and shamanism. Please be warned, dear brothers and sisters. In Jesus, Ruth

I learned the following teaching from a wonderful and gifted Bible teacher and it is the only teaching on this subject that I believe is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and His work is to testify to Jesus. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" John 15:26 Therefore blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who IS truth, is to deliberately choose to disbelieve His witness, i.e. that Jesus is of and from the Father and has come in the the flesh, died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father. This blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin because if one doesn't believe in Jesus' atoning sacrifice for sin, then there is no further forgiveness of sins available. Logically, then, the sin of disbelieving that Jesus died to forgive all sin is the one and only sin that is unforgivable. Over the years I have heard many people expound on what is this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is unforgivable. This is the only understanding that makes sense and is consistent with God's character and His revealed Word. All others imply that God's plan of salvation is less than perfect. That somehow God didn't factor into His plan of salvation this sin or that sin and that He can be taken by surprise. I cannot ever hear God saying: "Oh dear, Ruth, I never thought that you'd do that sin, I really didn't plan for that. Sorry, Ruth, Jesus' sacrifice for sin really can't cover THAT one." Apart from all else such a view takes away from God's omniscience and omnipotence. I have met believers who live in fear of having knowingly or unknowingly committed the unforgivable sin. Such fear is contrary to God's Word: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1. In Jesus, Ruth