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Would any atheist care to discuss Truth with me? Firstly, we must agree on a definition of truth. Here is mine. Truth is a 100% accurate account/record of all existence and all events. This definition is based on the following: That without existence there is nothing to account/record. That without events, existence is at a standstill and therefore truth stands still. Therefore truth is an accurate account of what IS and what OCCURS/HAS OCCURRED If you have a better definition of truth on which to base a debate concerning truth, let is discuss. Ruth

"22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect

Well, you'd just love my disabled daughter - she hugs anyone who is willing to allow her to fling her arms around their neck! It's one of the reasons she enjoys going to church - she's always assured of plenty of hugs! Having said that, I have an eighteen year old daughter who was a little put out by an overly long and close hug (chest to chest) from a young married man at church. Judging by the look on her face, I don't think his wife was too comfortable with it, either. I suppose that sensitivity to another's situation and general demeanour is what is required. I don't find it particularly easy to hug people whom I am not very well acquainted with and find it a little embarrassing when total strangers come up to me in church and fling their arms around me. But I'm quite a shy person so I recognise that that's just me being me. My 80 yr old mother says that one of the joys of being old and widowed is that she can give and receive hugs freely because no-one could possibly think there might be ulterior motives! Blessings in Jesus, and a big hug, too, Ruth

Shiloh, keep up the good work. It is refreshing to read such a spirited and Spirit-filled defence of the faith that refuses to allow vain arguments spoken from ignorance. May the Lord give you wisdom as you continue to proclaim the truth. In Jesus wonderful Name, Ruth

I can honestly say that I just don't know whether the rapture is pre or post Trib. I have read arguments on all sides and still don't know. So what I would like to ask is: does it matter that I'm not sure what to believe, that I keep an open mind on the subject? How could it affect me if I were to believe one way or the other or just stay undecided? Ruth

Indeed, so. Our posts should always be with grace. But not at the expense of truth. Jesus did not say to the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" and "you whitewahsed tombs" with the intention of causing suffering and humiliation, but rather to alert them to the truth of their hypocrisy. It's a fine line and one that we can only tread under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus, Ruth Its a massive skill actually, to be able to "rebuke" someone and yet not cause them humiliation or provoke an angry response. probably takes years of experience Do you, in all honesty, (and I genuinely seek your honest response) think that we should set out to avoid an angry response when we speak the truth? The Pharisees weren't exactly hugging Jesus when He called them a brood of vipers. They were big-time angry! I'm not suggesting that we should seek to arouse anger by our words, but rather that if we speak truth and it arouses anger, then that goes with speaking truth. Let those who are angered give account of their anger rather than suggest it is wrong, per se, that they should have been provoked to anger. In Jesus, Ruth Hi Ruth, Couldnt have put it better myself, though I do think that we, as Christians, should at all costs at leasttry to avoid arousing anger. After all, we preach peace and not war. I think this was discussed in another thread, cant remember which one. Well, actually, we DON'T preach peace not war, we preach reconciliation between God our maker and His Creation - mankind. It is one of the greatest miscomprehensions that the peace that the angel spoke of on the brith of Jesus was to do with a cessation of war - as has been evidenced by the events that immediately followed in Jerusalem and have followed in the past 2000 years, and all Biblical prophecies that say war will increase in the latter days. The Biblical peace that is spoken of is peace between God and man. In Jesus, Ruth

Indeed, so. Our posts should always be with grace. But not at the expense of truth. Jesus did not say to the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" and "you whitewahsed tombs" with the intention of causing suffering and humiliation, but rather to alert them to the truth of their hypocrisy. It's a fine line and one that we can only tread under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus, Ruth Its a massive skill actually, to be able to "rebuke" someone and yet not cause them humiliation or provoke an angry response. probably takes years of experience Do you, in all honesty, (and I genuinely seek your honest response) think that we should set out to avoid an angry response when we speak the truth? The Pharisees weren't exactly hugging Jesus when He called them a brood of vipers. They were big-time angry! I'm not suggesting that we should seek to arouse anger by our words, but rather that if we speak truth and it arouses anger, then that goes with speaking truth. Let those who are angered give account of their anger rather than suggest it is wrong, per se, that they should have been provoked to anger. In Jesus, Ruth

Indeed, so. Our posts should always be with grace. But not at the expense of truth. Jesus did not say to the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" and "you whitewahsed tombs" with the intention of causing suffering and humiliation, but rather to alert them to the truth of their hypocrisy. It's a fine line and one that we can only tread under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus, Ruth Even though He chose those very words carefully, I believe that He did not use them to lift Himself above them in stature, but to wake them up and cause them to see what was in their hearts. He also had the authority from Higher Headquarters to do so. We have to decide if we have that same authority when we post... t. I agree. There can never be a lifting up of oneself - only a lifting of the Way, the Truth and the Life - to glorify God who is ALL in ALL. In Jesus, Ruth

Indeed, so. Our posts should always be with grace. But not at the expense of truth. Jesus did not say to the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" and "you whitewahsed tombs" with the intention of causing suffering and humiliation, but rather to alert them to the truth of their hypocrisy. It's a fine line and one that we can only tread under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus, Ruth

Bingo! The urge to toss in that one little jab becomes too much to resist when we are posting in response to someone we feel has slighted us. Can we imagine Jesus behind a keyboard posting the same way? t. ...but what glory to suffer the slights just as Jesus did! I think it can be a very hallowed experience to learn how to take slights without feeling a need to rejoin. At the risk of sounding as though I am advocating self-flagellism (which I am not) there is something very glorious and liberating about suffering, (i.e. putting up with in silence, as a lamb to the slaughter) in just a very small way, the kind of taunts that our Lord Jesus suffered. In Jesus, Ruth

Thanks for your contributions, everyone - lots here to raise a smile and remind one how good and great and gracious is our God. In Jesus, Ruth

Just a minute, guys - you're confusing me! Is it not true that when we believe on the Lord Jesus for salvation we are "born again" and that we become "a new creation" and that not only are we cleansed of our iniquities, we are also imputed Jesus' righteousness so that we can stand before God not only cleansed of sin - i.e. neutral, but positively righteous (with the imputed righteousness of Christ?) And is not our "new creation in Christ" incorruptible? If we continue to sin, is that not in the flesh, which we should count as dead anyway? In our new creation in Christ we can only do the works of the Spirit because it is Christ-in-me who is working. That the flesh-life hangs around until we die is a hindrance to fellowship with Jesus, not a salvific issue. I don't know whether this is Calvinism or Arminianism or any other "ism" but I know that it is what Paul is preaching in the first 8 chapters of Romans. In Jesus, Ruth

Yes, I like it, Biblicist. You have to take a few moments to let the truth of it sink it, (well, I do, but I'm very slow) but when it does, the message is very poignant. Thanks, Ruth

Good one, Vickilynn! And new to me, too. Super! I'm going to print these out and stick them on my kitchen cupboards, and other places around the house, so lots more please! Ruth

I was reminded today, in the face of a gi-normous and unexpected bill, of an old aphorism that always makes me smile and helps me to regain persepective when troubles threaten to overwhelm. Don't tell God how big your problem is, tell your problem how big God is. What are your favourite aphorisms that help you to regain a Biblical perspective? Ruth

Dear Everlasting, Far be it from me to squelch the spirit. The Lord has blessed you with a very special insight into His Word. I am happy to make your acquaintance. Loving you in Jesus, Ruth

You know what, Neo, having re-read your OP it seems to me that you see believing on the Lord Jesus - receiving salvation - as a recipe, a technique. Something one does according to the Calvinist doctrine or the Arminian doctrine or the Roman Catholic doctrine, or the Homer Simpson doctrine. You are so wrong! When one MEETS Jesus, one believes - that's it! Only later do some people come along and try and tell you that you must be Calvinist or Arminian or something else. What the hec do we who have been saved care for whatever ism you like to brand us with? All we know is that once we were lost, now we are found; once we were without hope, now we have hope. Once we were unloved, now we are loved. "My chains fell off, my heart was free, I rose went forth and followed thee." In Jesus, Ruth

In essence, political correctness is dishonesty by diktat; lies required by law - at least, it is in the UK. Ruth

I've always got by on such verses as "Love your enemy, do good to those that spitefully use you," and "repay evil with good." Even when I know I have not been in the wrong, I have apologised for giving offence (and not, I am sorry IF I gave offence, because that doesn't work. It must be, sorry that I GAVE offence.) I try to explain that the offence was not intentional, and try to draw alongside the person and understand why offence was taken, and sincerely apologise. I guess the bottom line is that one has to eat a lot of humble pie that isn't necessarily deserved. But it is the better way. The other side of the coin is not to be quick to TAKE offence. It is worth remembering that even if offence is OFFERED we do not have to TAKE it. We can choose to drop it. In Jesus, Ruth

We are supposed to preach the gospel indiscriminately partly because we don't know who is elect and who is reprobate. Also, we preach indiscriminately so that those who are reprobates will be without excuse. What does it mean to say "Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world"? Does it mean that everyone's sins are paid for? If that's the case, then why are some still going to hell? Because they haven't Believed! Not because Christ didn't die for Him..How do you explain John 3:16. For God so Loved the WORLD that WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Is that verse cut out of your Bible because that says He died for EVERYONE and ANYONE who believes will be saved...God doesn't choose who will get saved and who won't....that is such a prideful belief...again...my standpoint does not mean to be harsh...but it is a damaging belief...I know that because I have lived through the pain your belief teaches.... Exactly so! It is not sin that now separates man from God, it is unbelief in the solution that God provided to deal with sin - i.e. the atoning sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. In Jesus, Ruth

I'm believing that the turning of Paris Hilton's mind to spiritual matters is an answer to our prayers expressed on another thread about her. Let's just continue to pray for her, especially that the Lord will send a faithful servant to preach to her the full and true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and that she won't be misled by any false doctrine or false spirituality. In Jesus name I pray, Ruth

I've posted the following illustration before but I think it bears repeating because it helps to understand what seems like a paradox - that Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world, but those who accept His salvation are the Elect. There is a door which every man may pass. On the outside of the door is written: whosoever will, may come. Those who choose to open the door and enter, discover that on the reverse side of the door is written: chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Jesus, Ruth

God cast satan down. His wish for us all is: that none should perish. We are tried by fire to see that we are worthy. Satan wasn't always full of sin. He was once an angel of light whom God trusted and cared for. Everlasting Moon Over Key Biscayne bn.com "We are tried by fire to see that we are worthy." Could you give me a Scriptural reference for this, please? Ruth

"....before Satan beguiled God." Oops! Are you sure this is what you mean? To beguile means to charm or divert, to deceive or to trick. I don't think Satan ever beguiled God. Ruth