Fraught

I wish it was true but from what i've seen, that shroud image was of a decent looking fella. According to the scriptures, Messiah was not going to be a regular, good-looking guy. He would have been disfigured, to put it mildly. Hasn't anyone else read this? I can't think of the specific book/chapter/verse at the moment.

Paul exhorts us through Timothy: 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given b inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. ------------ and through Titus: 7In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity . . . 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

that is ridiculous. ii have not attacked you. and i never would. I didn't say you attacked me. I stated that what I said above was probably going to be turned around on me (as has been the case lately when it comes to the postings of the opinions of Mr. Kelley.) I admonished you over this comment: "So. you have rejected the scriptural definition that mizzdy has provided to instead choose one by some guy named jack kelly??" That was a snide comment and totally inappropriate as that is not what LittleLamb said nor insinuated/intimated. sometimes i'm not as clear as i'd like to be. i have said that a scriptural definition was provided. this is much different than someone's private interpretation. scripture is not subject to anyone's private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation OK. How do you explain the different views on baptism, the rapture and how one is saved? Scriptures are presented justifying each position. How do we decide which position is right? Myself, I form my positions based on my reading and understanding of different versions of the Word; by what I am taught by the teacher that I sit under, and other teachers that I follow in the media. My positions are based on 40 years of learning (with some time being backslid). I trust that what I know is the Truth comes from the Holy Spirit, who lives within me. OneLight, I understand completely what you are saying. I just don't feel it necessary to repost Scriptures that the author has quoted when I agree with their positions. I generally don't say whether I agree or disagree with the author of the article, I post the article for the edification of those who appreciate what the author has to say, as information for those who are in the process of forming their position on the subject, and to stimulate those who disagree with the article to state their disagreement with the article (which has now begun to focus on Mr. Kelley.) The disagreement should be with the article and the author's use of Scripture and not with the poster. If those who disagree with the article are not satisfied with refuting the article, then that is their problem and they should talk directly with the author. I always post the link. As an added note, the information contained in the articles that I post are in the mainstream of the Christian faith. They may be on controversial topics as some may disagree with the premise, but they are still legitimate articles worthy to be posted on this site. how do i explain the different views? the folly of private interpretation. we must study deeper into the scriptures and they will tell us everything we need to know. when we still have questions, it just means that the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed everything to us. He is the Spirit of Truth, not of error or confusion. There are many reasons why the Holy Spirit may not yet deem us ready to know, but when we know, it will be without a shadow of a doubt. Thus, different views are the result of many running ahead (to and fro) without guidance. seeking knowledge (but never coming to a revelation). ohh, getting too wordy ! just deleted a whole paragraph so i'll just say that here is where you might be missing it. We do not decide. That's the whole point in the apostles warning us against private interpretation.

that is ridiculous. ii have not attacked you. and i never would. I didn't say you attacked me. I stated that what I said above was probably going to be turned around on me (as has been the case lately when it comes to the postings of the opinions of Mr. Kelley.) I admonished you over this comment: "So. you have rejected the scriptural definition that mizzdy has provided to instead choose one by some guy named jack kelly??" That was a snide comment and totally inappropriate as that is not what LittleLamb said nor insinuated/intimated. sometimes i'm not as clear as i'd like to be. i have said that a scriptural definition was provided. this is much different than someone's private interpretation. scripture is not subject to anyone's private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation

that is ridiculous. ii have not attacked you. and i never would.

Now I've heard it all !!! Gravity created the universe. Hmmmm . . . good to have that question finally answered ROFL

Sure, if you are relying on your own strength. God is the source of our "mental" stability. He is the source of all strength. Again, as I believe the Pre-Trib Rapture to be true, it's not an issue. If it proves not to be - it's still not an issue because God is the one who holds me up - He provides for my every need. If I suffer, it's because He has willed it. If I die, it's because He, as the author and sustainer of life, has chosen to take it. I'm not worried about any aspect of the Tribulation. Worry cannot add one day to my life - nor to yours. that sounds good in theory, but still you've got to prepare. remember the parable of the 10 virgins. your lamps must all be full before it begins. it might be difficult to be prepared when you didn't know you needed to be. which is exactly why the pre-trib theory is so dangerous. as to 'relying on God' that also sounds good in theory, but He has given you the tools and He expects you to use them. I think you can see this about God when you read all the teaching He has given us.

thanks to all who responded to the post. according to your replies and further study i have made, you're right. much more likely to be the traditionally held belief of 3.5 years.

whoa . . . what in the world is Sedevacantism ???

Yes, great topic. It is something I study frequently because Jesus was taught to the jews (the new christians) strictly from the old testament scriptures. the gospel is found in the o.t. and explained in the n.t. here's one that's kind of obscure, but very cool: it's a parabolic pantomime, of which the scriptures are full of . . a part of Jesus' baptism includes him crossing the jordan river from east to west. In the same way that God led the sons of Israel through the reed sea and offered them the terms of the old covenant in the wilderness, so also John led Jesus Christ thru the waters of the jordan and offered him the terms of the new covenant = "in the wilderness of judea". Jesus apparently accepted the new terms and thus God sends His Spirit to dwell in His midst just as He had previously dwelled in the midst of the old 'corporate' israel. too cool, right ?

I was surprised as well. And grateful. Why is that ? I don't want war, what rational person would? So I conclude that the leadership in Israel is rational, and I'm glad. They actually care about their people. Good

my 2 cents is likely redundant, but i have to come down against WOF. My bible tells me my faith is in the risen Lord and the hope of resurrection. My bible tells me that here we are just pilgrims passing through, and that my faith is in the hope of things unseen. my bible tells me that if it weren't for the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and us with Him, we are "of all men, the most to be pitied" if our hope is only in this life. No, I must conclude that the movement is simply not biblical, and believe me i'm putting it much more tactfully than I feel like doing.

NO NO NO !!! We should not exercise a preemptive strike against Iran. This is wrong in so many ways. Although they're saying we need to do it within 8 days or risk a chernobyl episode. Iran is getting the nuclear fuel in 8 days! People, that's not long until the possible start of world war III For those who are pro-attack, i hope you're prepared for your life to be turned upside down. If they attack one of our allies, i'll reconsider, maybe. but not like this.

if the gulf dies completely, i am wondering how this would affect the climate - logic tells me it would be a drastic change but i haven't read any speculations. has anyone else considered this? or read any speculations ?

I happen to agree with Mr. Kelley and his work. I believe that what he presents is inspired by the Holy Spirit. I am not here to defend or rebut what he has presented. I post his material, with permission, for the information of those who choose to read it. Once read, anyone is free to disagree and to indeed rebut whatever position Mr. Kelley takes on any given issue. In fact, if one so chooses, they may go to the GraceThruFaith website and address any questions, concerns or rebuttals to Mr. Kelley directly. I always provide a link to the material that he presents for that purpose. Again, thank you for your responses. it seems that some who cannot win a debate will not engage in debate

it's the reality shows you listed that are the most puzzling. i know people whose lives basically revolve around 'big brother' and 'survivor'. i can't care about it but frontierville on facebook? now don't try to make me give that up !!! LOL

For everyone's benefit, this is e lansing's post in reference - TO E LANSING: haven't finished the thread so i'm still looking to see how it plays out and doing some investigation of my own, but i did not want to miss complimenting you on how well you laid out the explanation. i have seen it laid out before of course, but never so concise and to the point. i have a lot of admiration for that since it's something i can never seem to manage. and to BlindSeeker, thanks for posting it here. very helpful to someone like me who is usually short on time. i'm looking forward to this whole new topic of study.

China owns your house. A man told me once "Yeah, I'd like to see them try and get it." . He doesn't have a clue that the truth of the matter is that the Chinese government doesn't care about his house. They'll drive a tank thru it with him and his wife kids inside. How's he gonna defend himself and his property? We are never coming out of debt, and God has ceased his blessings and turned us into slaves and a people that are hated among the nations. It only gets worse from here. you've got a point there, what good is a title deed or a gun when the government can just say here you go, China, have the state of 'ohio' (just an example). years ago, i stopped buying things made in china and urged others to do the same; now it is too late. however, even if something this extreme came to pass, it would not necessarily be a judgment from God. this kind of thing happens in cycles. empires do not retain their ascendancy forever. for many years now, the ascendancy of asia has been expected. this will happen for many reasons including demographics and natural resources (and maybe to fulfill biblical prophecy?) but not necessarily because of a judgment from God.

ronnie, in recent history, God was first glorified in germany, england, etc. i.e. the great protestant reformation. surely those countries have more surely turned away from God. i, too, being an american have looked into this and truly america is not perfect but don't you think God could find 10 righteous people in america - that he could not find in sodom. remember He said it would not be desroyed if he found righteousness there. He would find righteousness here. my main point is that, comparatively speaking, we are doing a lot better than many other countries. my 2nd point is that after looking into this for some time, mystery babylon more surely points to the world system. i'm holding out that it might still be really in iraq - some evidence points to the fact that the original city babylon might be built back up into a major world city but if it isn't, then the evidence points more toward mystery babylon being the world system that is ruled by the prince of the power of the air. anyway, look into it a little bit more and try to examine all sides without bias. you might find that america is not so bad. i don't know that any other countries send so many missionaries to so many parts of the world bringing hope and the message of God's salvation.

fundamentally, the creation: Genesis 1 The Account of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[a] 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said . . . and Jesus was there !!!! John 1 Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word 1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He existed in the beginning with God. 3 God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. 4 The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.

AMEN. That's exactly why it is the Word of God, and not mere words of men! Candice, that verse you quoted is definitely ringing right to me. The ram -- the sacrificial animal that God provided Himself -- behind as in before Abraham.... I think this other passage in John confirms the verse you quoted: John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." i agree, i think that does apply (rings true) i will keep alert for any more statements that seem to relate; generally, i have found that when you find 1, you soon find more

wyguy put it tactfully about being an 'old-school' christian - i'm not so diplomatic. one time i did hear an audible voice in my mind. my mind yelled back "NO" as loud as it could and that has never happened again. I do not think it is biblical that God should speak to us as a regular occurrence. no matter what others imply.

interesting..does olam haba=the resurrection? I would think it is. It is the world to come, thats the best translation. I'll even go out on a limb and say it is the Garden of Eden that was removed from the earth after the fall and its whats causing the birth pangs, the coming kingdom of God. I have often thought that its the place where we all go after death waiting for the kingdom to come to earth. I of course don't have it all figured but its an interesting and fascinating subject, theres a woman named Dr. Diana Dye if you can find her stuff on the net I would recommend her work on this subject. All I have are a few youtube so can't post them here. i've heard it translated 'everlasting place' but you're right it's hard to get an exact translation. your explanation of 'the fullness' is appreciated since it lets scripture interpret scripture, as it should be. so thanks for the clarity you've given on this issue.