OneLight

Mutzrein, I choose not to copy the whole post to save a lot of scrolling ... I am not bringing in a new doctrine, I am just pointing out that we do not know who God is going to allow in to Heaven. All we have is what the Bible tells us, which is all we need to be saved and follow Jesus. The Bible is for us, to draw us to God, not for us to know how God will judge every man that had ever lived. This is why I say that God will judge the hearts of all men, for they all are His creation. Just as the Jews thought it wrong to go to the Gentiles, I find this same train of thought when I point out that God shows every living creature Himself through His creation. Even though we find this in Romans, as you pointed out that Paul was addressing the sinners, it is a universal (I know .... people hate that word) message to everyone, not just Rome. As Paul opened the understanding to those of Rome, I believe that God opened the understanding to the rest of the world, but it was never recorded. I had been taught that we must never look for more then what is in black and white before our eyes, just as a horse with blinders. Old fears of being miss led put our understanding of God in a box that was neatly handed to us and we were warned not to go outside of it. Through the Holy Spirit, I have been shown that we do not know God as He truly is, but only what we can handle and understand. We do have finite minds. What has to be known is simple. God loves everyone. God judges everyone. God has His measures for judging. We are not God and will never be able to judge as He does. We do know that those who have heard and rejected His salvation will not be accepted to heaven, but lost eternally. This is very clear and there is no argument against this. That leaves all the rest of those who have never heard. These are those I am speaking of. God is a God of Love. He is a Just God. He is a Merciful God. He hears the prayers of those seeking Him and answers. It is His desire that all come to Him. Like I said in my first sentence, I am not bringing in another doctrine, I am putting out what I see as Gods love for all. Anyone who wants to believe God will not save those who have not heard the Word of Salvation is just in doing so, for it is written for us this way. I am also believing in salvation through Christ, for I have heard the Word. Yet, I choose not to judge those who have not heard and will allow God to decide. Remember that the Bible is for everyone who has heard or will hear. Even though the Bible is the Word of God for all to hear, those who have never heard can not be held accountable for what they have not been taught. I really believe that God will judge them according to what He finds in their hearts. OneLight edited to clarify my last paragraph

Praying with you!

That's an urban legend. Hey, OneLight. That's a great definition you posted. I'm more interested in the manner of an hymn, and not so much the content. What do you mean by manner?

Yes, I could imagine wounding somebody in order to preserve my life or the life of others. I have no doubts about that. Just to have them take you to court and sue you blind. I would rather have nothing to my name and know that I did not take the life of another, then to have everything and live with their blood on my hands. OneLight Edited cause I did not think while typing ... I would rather protect my loved ones and what is mine than to let someone harm them or take what belongs to me. Where in the Bible does it say we must allow someone to murder us or a loved one, or that we must stand aside and allow someone to take our possessions? "Thou shalt not kill" refers to murder, not to self defense. I'm not even going to go there. Please read my first post in this group. You will see that I am saying that I would wound a person by choice, before I would shoot to kill. Possessions can be replaced, lives can not. OneLight

I do not dispute what you have said. What I am trying to get everyone to do is to realize that God works in ways that the Bible does not tell us. God is not contained between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:19. He is greater then what He has told us. How can I say this? Read John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. If you think about this verse, you will have to accept that not all of what Jesus did was written for us. There was a lot more. Again, the accounts of Jesus were mostly about His three years of trying to reach out to the lost. Now, if John can say this about the last three years of Jesus, think about how much more there is to know about God! How can you say that those who have not heard about Jesus is not born of God? God judges the heart, does he not? Think about all that have claimed to know Jesus and did not allow Christ to change them ... are they going to Heaven just because they knew about Jesus? Remember Matthew 7:21-23:

I would pray and seeks Gods guidance first of all. If He does not want you there, He will show you by His Spirit that it is time to move on. If He shows you that you should leave, then He will open another door for you that will be greater then what you are currently doing. If it is His will for you to stay, He will go before you and allow your words to touch the hearts of those who have cause this trouble. OneLight

Zodhiates Greek Dictionary: 5214 Hymn - humneo used always to praise God; to sing, chant, particularly accompanying stringed instruments 5215 Hymns - humnos A song or hymn in honor of God. Whereas a psalm is a story of man's deliverance or a commemoration of mercies received, a hymn is a magnification, a declaration of how great someone or something is. It is a direct address of praise and glory to God, According to Augustine a hymn has three characteristics: It must be sung; it must be praise; it must be to God. Hope this helps. OneLight

I find this very hard to believe. Those who were/are in the outer most parts of the world, and those who were before the Gospel, may very well of worshiped God without knowing who He was. God made Himself known to everyone through His creation. Not His Bible, as we know it, but Himself. Why would you think that everyone who had not been preached to would of not accepted God? That is shutting out millions of people from the grace of God. Is it really so hard to believe the He has touched the hearts of those who never had a chance hear the spoken Word? This is cutting Him pretty short, in my opinion. We all will be surprised when we are brought into His presence and see then millions who have the right heart for God. Those that have heard the spoken word and those who knew God through His creation, and have not heard. Then our questions will be answered. If I am wrong, I will apologize to everyone. If I am right, then we all can worship Him for His love to all. OneLight

You are making no sense at all. This has nothing to do with tongues. Are you saying that I'm not saved? Show me where I mentioned anything about continual filling of the Spirit. I ask the same about another baptism of the Holy Spirit. Why are you making things up as you go on? Wait a minute. Are you saying that if someone believes in the gifts that are given by the Holy Spirit, then they will go to hell? It is your choice to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. You will have to stand before God and give account for your own words. I, for one, will never stop believing in the gifts of the Spirit, no matter how much false doctrine you post. Answer the questions that I asked in post # 59 ... Who is it that would fear tongues the most in the spirit realm? Also, here is something you need to consider: Matthew 7:15-16 You Will Know Them by Their Fruits Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? What are the fruits? Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. These I have not seen in any of your posts. OneLight edited the first time because I forgot a word. the second time because I forget to explain the first edit

We are to show our brothers and sisters where they are going wrong, in love. You can remind her that her heart is growing cold toward Christ by this verse. Matthew 15:18-19 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. OneLight

Amen sister! Here's the biblical proof for what you say. Psaln 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of the God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork." Romans 1:20 confirms this thought in the NT and in John 1:9 it says that Jesus "lights" every man that comes into the world. If that's not enough, check out Titus 2:11, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. No, I can't explain how He does it. I'm sure we can all think of situations that would seem impossible to us. But God is the God of the impossible and that's good enough for me. What a great God we have. Greg. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, This is the scripture that I use for this type of question. I agree with you. We do not understand how God will show Himself to those who can not hear the Word spoken to them, except that He does it through His creation. We do serve a Glorious God! OneLight

Were they not just talking about peace? Oh yea, that was just for the rest of us ...

Allow me to ask, who is it that would fear tongues the most in the spirit realm? OneLight

Ahhh, the wisdom of the world!

Please, who are you trying to fool. You meant it to all who oppose you and for you not to stand up and admit it shows weakness on your part. Now, this is more like it. You are speaking what you personally believe and not attacking anyone. Praise God! I accept this type of communication from a Brother, which I do believe you are. We can believe in different interpretation of His Word, but still accept Christ as our savior and be saved. What I have objected to all along is when you claim that you hold the only truth and that the rest, who do not accept your doctrines, are condemned to hell. Brother, again, you place yourself on a pedestal. I never claim to be special and I really don't know where you got the idea that I thought I was. Believe me, Christ has spoken to me and I did listen. He told me "I Am Alive". I know that if He ever spoke to me again, He would have my undivided attention. Brother, it is you who has decided that the Holy Spirit does not give the gift of tongues, or that He does not pray in intercession for us. You have accepted man over the word of God and the Holy Spirit by agreeing with the linguists. The Holy Spirit will teach each person who seeks the truth, it is one of His missions. Your Brother In Christ, OneLight

Yes, I could imagine wounding somebody in order to preserve my life or the life of others. I have no doubts about that. Just to have them take you to court and sue you blind. I would rather have nothing to my name and know that I did not take the life of another, then to have everything and live with their blood on my hands. OneLight Edited cause I did not think while typing ...

To me, it would have to be by self defense, or the defense of another, and then by accident. There are so many ways to stop someone that killing someone should be the last resort. Even if this person is shooting at you and you are shooting back ... wound the assailant, take that person in custody and bring the person to trial. OneLight

It has been said that the temple that will be built will not require the Muslim temple to be removed. Could this be where the key to the peace in the Middle East is found? Time marches on!

This is your reply to us? Here is my answer to you about how I see your teachings. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. OneLight

Do you also believe that if you never heard of Jesus that you would be condemned to an eternity of separated from God? Where is Gods mercy? Where is Gods love? God loves everyone, not just those who had the privilege of hearing the truth about Him. See my reply to poorinspirit. BTW ... which are you, "New Creature" or "givennewname" ... you confuse me with using both. OneLight

I would tell them the same thing I am telling you. God will judge all who have not heard of the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Bible or anything that pertains to a Christian belief, according to what is in their heart. Tell me, how can someone be judged for something that they have not heard? How can someone believe in Jesus if they have not heard of Jesus? God tells us that He will make Himself known through His creation. If someone, through creation, realizes that there had to be a being greater then themselves to do such wonderful work, but does not know His name, but still worships Him in his heart, then God will judge this person accordingly. If another, who has witnessed the same, but refuses to worship Him, he will be judged accordingly. God is a God of Love and the Bible does not hold everything God is, feels, does or is going to do. You, nor I, will ever understand all the greatness of God through His word to us. He gives us what we are capable to understand, if taught through His Spirit. Our minds are not His mind, though we have the mind of Christ after salvation, which means that we will think as He thought, not know everything that He knew. The Holy Spirit will reveal to us what He is told to reveal, nothing more. Your question that ended in "then why don't you all shut up then?" is not anywhere close to my argument about someone not being able to hear the truth. The fact is that this person is in a place and time where he can hear the truth, but refuses, means that he will be judged according to his refusal and rejection of the message of salvation. This person is not in the same situation as one who will never hear. Open your mind and realize that there have been, and still are, people on this planet that have not, nor ever will, hear the truth preached to them. Your argument would be able to hold water if everyone was preached to, and understood, the teachings of the Bible, but that did not, does not, and will not ever happen. Just because the Gospel will be preached to the ends of the earth does not mean everyone has, or will, hear it. How many people have died in the past that have never heard of salvation through Christ? According to you, these people are in hell, headed to the lake of fire and brimstone to spend eternity separated from God. According to me, God will judge them according to their hearts, how they lived and everything they did. He, and He alone, will decide that persons destination. God is the only God and He will do as He pleases, not as you think He should. To claim that you, or anyone else, can sit in the judgment seat and judge someone who has not heard of God, is placing themselves as God. You do remember what happened to Lucifer? OneLight

Thanks for correcting me ... but I was implying that we are not to be judged as the sinners are. As for those who will not hear, that have been many people who have not heard the Word of God preached, or even know about God as we do, and I dare say that there are still people in this world who have not heard. Jesus says that the Gospel will be preached throughout the world, but He does not say that everyone who ever lived will hear.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments

Please give scripture to unbelievers returning to dust. As for your question, "Since they are dead (and God is not the God of the dead but the living) why would these be resurrected to be judged?", we read: Revelation 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Please show me scripture to back the claim that those who are saved will stand in judgment. Our works will be judged by fire, but we will not be judged as sinners are, for we have salvation through the blood of Christ. You are the one who has made certain claims. I ask you to bring forth scripture to support your statements. OneLight