wingnut-

So then how did Enoch please God so much that He took him? Enoch came between the garden and Christ coming in the flesh, impossible. Not to mention you are now excluding all the OT saints, the prophets, etc. No, we are not eating of that tree, you are not reading what is said in Genesis. Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. The tree of life was hidden for what reason? So Adam and Eve could not eat of it and live forever, because they had sinned, and that sin required payment. If the tree of life were Jesus then it would not have been removed, it is removed because from that point on the flesh was denied eternal life. Otherwise God would have said to them, "Here, you better eat this fruit or your doomed." It is completely contradictory to this gnostic approach which tries to steal God's glory and base salvation on the works of man. As I said before, it is the same lie they fell for from the serpent in the first place. Jesus IS NOT hidden from man, you did not have to get past cherubim and a flaming sword to get to Him. I would also like to add this in here, if you are going to try and spiritualize the tree of life, then how do you handle the other tree from the garden? What does the tree of knowledge of good and evil become? Did the serpent cut little pieces off himself and say here Adam and Eve, have a little taste of the serpent so you can become like gods? Still trying to put the cart in front of the horse. You cannot save yourself, you cannot seal yourself, the seal comes after you come to Jesus, not before. The seal is being born again, and you cannot be born again on your own. John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. And let me remind you again where the tree of life is found. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’ What scripture is abundantly clear on, is that the tree of life is in the paradise of God, New Jerusalem, and only those who have accepted Jesus can enter that city and have access to it. Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. You have to wash your robe first, belief in Jesus gives the right to the tree of life and entry into the city, not the other way around. That's exactly the problem with the entire line of thought here, man cannot overcome, the victory is in Jesus, not man. This is precisely what makes this gnostic teaching. Romans 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; Romans 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” Agreed, but what good does scripture do if one simply explains away the plain meaning of it and constructs something of their own. I don't and never will subscribe to the thought of a complicated God who gives us His word and makes it incomprehensible. Particularly when He tells us to come as little children. So I'll just leave the thread now, no point in going in circles, you all can carry on. God bless

Am I missing the part where it says these two teenagers were Muslim? Are we going to blame Muslims if the wind doesn't blow in the right direction as well? Based on their names, it would appear more likely the victims may be Muslim, so perhaps this growing fear is blossoming into the promotion of violence.

Ok sisters, I will post this and really have nothing more to add on the matter, people can choose for themselves. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. The tree of life is inaccessible to man, man must not be allowed to take from the tree of life and eat. This has not changed since the fall of man, there is no getting around this, no scripture to support it. The two verses above from Genesis cannot be reconciled to your claim, ignoring what they say does not make this theory believable. Revelation 2:7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Only the one who is victorious is given the right to the tree of life, so how does one gain victory? You cannot claim Jesus is the one who gives us victory and at the same time claim to have been denied access to Him until after the new age. The victorious one cannot eat from the tree of life until afterward, in eternity, post-millennium, post-judgement, etc. You cannot have washed your robes without Jesus, it is only His blood that purifies us, so how does one wash their robe to have the right to the tree of life if the tree of life is the one whose blood your robes are washing in? Basically what you are falling for here is a gnostic teaching, the same trick Eve fell for in the garden. Only Jesus atones for sin, only His blood washes your robe and makes you victorious, and these two things are required prior to gaining access to the tree of life. Thus, eliminating your claim as being even remotely possible. The victory is in Him, not in ourselves, and these verses here are the key to understanding the truth on the matter. You are both putting the cart in front of the horse, you really need to pay close attention to precisely what these verses in this post say. God bless

Hello Marilyn, Again you have no scripture to support this claim, and in fact, I just showed you scripture that disproves it. Jesus cannot be the tree of life when the tree of life is being kept from man and Jesus is not kept from man. You cannot show one scripture that equates Jesus to the tree of life, not one. A symbol is only a symbol of what it is attached to, and there is no scripture to attach Jesus to the tree of life. Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called blessed. Here it is compared to wisdom. Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and whoever captures souls is wise. Here to the fruit of the righteous. Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life. Here to hope. Proverbs 15:4 A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit. Here to the spoken word.

John 14: 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. The New Jerusalem is the place Jesus went to prepare for us, and He is speaking to the disciples, meaning it is also for them. And where are they going to be? Where He is, in the New Jerusalem, and so will every other believer.

Hello Marilyn, So exactly how do you explain that since the Body started with the Jews. The disciples were Jews, where do they fit in? The other issue you have here in trying to separate the Jews from the Gentiles is in regards to the placement. If the apostles are in the New Jerusalem where are the Messianic Jews? Keep in mind that the apostles themselves were Messianic Jews, so that would mean anyone who is Jewish gets a reduced part by your theory, regardless of their standing in Christ. This goes against the fact that God is no respecter of persons and does not show favoritism. It also collides with the fact that Jesus was the promised Messiah to the Jews and you are separating them from Him. The great multitude is us, they are in heaven before the Lord returns to the earth. Only believers go to heaven, they cannot be anyone else but the saints. Who do you think the great multitude is and what are they doing in heaven?

Hello Marilyn, All of those examples are given to us in scripture, what is not ever found in scripture is any relation between the tree of life and Jesus. The tree of life is mentioned only 11 times in scripture, 3 times in Genesis, 4 times in Proverbs, and 4 times in Revelation. Not one of those times can it be equated to Jesus, in fact, the exact opposite from this occasion. Genesis 3:24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. Following the fall of man, man is kept from the tree of life by cherubim and a flaming sword. This is irreconcilable to Jesus, who is standing with His arms wide open inviting man to come to Him. Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. The passage in Genesis cannot be reconciled to this fact, man is not driven and kept away from Jesus, but they are kept away from the tree of life until the age to come. Your position on this is simply not compatible to who Jesus is and His purpose to offer salvation. It was the very sin that caused the tree of life to be hidden away which resulted in mankind's necessity for a Savior. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, there is no talking around this point, either Jesus is accessible or He is inaccessible. So which is it to you? God bless

When I was that age, toilet papering someone's trees was what we did for entertainment.

I understand what you mean, sometimes it isn't easy to be different than others, but the reward will be worth the trials of this life. God bless

Where in scripture is Jesus ever equated or compared to the tree of life to support this claim? Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Revelation 22: 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Here are two passages from Revelation that directly contradict your claim. Who are those who wash their robes? The great multitude is one group alone. Verse 19 warns against taking away from the words of the book, or the individual loses their share in the holy city. So if we take your position, then any Gentile can change whatever they want because these aren't things for them anyway. Following the GWTJ there are simply believers and non-believers, non-believers will go to the lake of fire, believers will have access to the city. Nothing unclean can enter the city, so your rendering again contradicts what is written. You can't have Jews and Gentiles both on the earth while trying to separate them as you are, scripture is clear on the fact that there is ONE body. Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. Your entire theory is contradictory to scripture, a teaching of men that is flawed at its very foundation. The above passage cannot be spiritualized away, or dismissed by claiming symbolism. Pay close attention to verses 21 and 22, which verify precisely what is said in Revelation that you are attempting to explain away. The Gentiles are made one with the Jew through Jesus Christ, joined together to grow into a holy temple, built together into a dwelling place for God. I for one will take scripture for what it says and know that the New Jerusalem is my inheritance. God bless

The earthly body is the material that will be used to create our heavenly body. This is what will rise from the grave at the resurrection.

This is why ABC hasn't existed in my life for a very long time, there is nothing good about this network.

Nice, I would definitely recommend making a more concentrated effort to attend each Sunday. The audio bible suggestions are a possibility as well for a family activity. I will say that as a child one of my greatest influences was my great grandmother, whenever she was around I would sit on her lap and read the bible to her, so another possibility is just to gather your kids and have a family bible reading time, where they can take turns reading a passage and then afterwards discuss what was read. Probably best to keep it to smaller amounts at a time so no one gets overwhelmed. God bless

II Corinthians 5 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

I read somewhere that California has a similar law which is on appeal currently.

What a twisted place Hawaii has become.

One suggestion I would have in regards to reading your bible is maybe get yourself a good study bible? Many of them will have reading plans in them, with different approaches based on the pace you wish to go at. It's hard to say a lot more without knowing more information, such as whether you attend a regular church or not? This is helpful of course in regards to your children, to have them attending church regularly and making friends their age who attend church as well. God bless

I would say that is part of why, but can't really answer that question for Him. I often wonder why He loves me, or any of us for that matter, but I know that He does. So much that He sent His Son to die, which as a parent myself is very difficult to comprehend. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Hello Christy, It's difficult to really give a definitive answer to this question because there are so many unknown variables. Maybe the issue is you are trying to hard? What I mean by that is, maybe some of your efforts are misplaced in that they are not God's will, but your own will and what you have determined to be the right thing to do? Sometimes the best thing to do is pray and be still, make sure you are doing what God wants as opposed to what you want. God bless

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

I wish I knew what to say to this other than a lot of prayer, will be praying for you as well. God bless

Welcome kelly, praying for you.

Yes, my mistake.

Hello Sister, As always, I do consider what you have to say as for the most part we agree on things. This however is one area where we differ, so I am curious if you see any relation at all to the passage in Ezekiel from above to this passage below. Matthew 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. 54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!” True, Abraham did not enter the promised land, but what was the promised land he was looking for? What they saw in visions was not earthly Jerusalem, what they saw was the New Jerusalem. Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. Verses 8 and 10 testify to the truth of this matter, God is not the designer and builder of earthly Jerusalem, He is the designer and builder of the New Jerusalem. This is the promise to both Jew and Gentile, and always has been, this is what the enemy does not understand and this is why the enemy has fought so hard for earthly Jerusalem. He may know scripture, but he does not understand it, which is why he is fighting so hard for the wrong thing. He thinks he can win by stopping prophecy from being fulfilled, which he has tried to do throughout history, such as attempting to have Jesus killed at birth and many other things. Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland.15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. Jesus said this to the disciples. John 14 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also." The New Jerusalem is the promise, not the earthly Jerusalem. The Old Testament saints are already there, as evidenced by the passage in Matthew and also confirmed by Paul. Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) Paul quotes from Psalm 68 in the above passage, here is a bit more of that excerpt from the Psalm. Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twice ten thousand, thousands upon thousands; the Lord is among them; Sinai is now in the sanctuary. 18 You ascended on high, leading a host of captives in your train and receiving gifts among men, even among the rebellious, that the Lord God may dwell there. 19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily bears us up; God is our salvation. Selah 20 Our God is a God of salvation, and to God, the Lord, belong deliverances from death. Abraham's bosom was emptied out at His resurrection, this is what He was doing for those three days, and this is what is meant by He holds the key to death and Hades. So getting back to the original point, the word for breath being the same word that means Spirit, those referenced in Ezekiel are not believers until the breath enters them, it is speaking of spiritual birth, as in, born again. It would appear the reason we differ on this comes down to whether or not one accepts that Abraham's bosom is empty or not. God bless