wingnut-

If you look at the post adstar made he laid out the details that are being overlooked to answer that question, the Millennial kingdom and the land promised to Abraham's seed are much larger than present day Israel. Just take Ezekiel's temple alone, it is bigger than the city of present day Jerusalem, those nations do not exist at that time, they are part of the Millennial kingdom. God bless

Of course he did, he also ended it in the right place as well, connected to the 2nd woe, 6th trumpet, which is why verse 14 exists as much as you might want to change that. Clearly you don't understand it, so you want to remove it and are trying desperately to do so, unsuccessfully. Not for anyone who understands the 7th trumpet comes at the end, and is in fact the end marker for the week. So now it is time for you to get a lesson in Greek, a language you clearly know nothing about, but think yourself qualified to explain to someone who does, which is rather amusing by the way. The Greek word for kingdom used at the 7th trumpet means "the realm in which a sovereign king will rule". The word is basileia, that is what it means, and that is what will take place, and believe me, that sovereign king is not the beast. Somewhere along the line you have misinterpreted Jesus' entire earthly ministry, because He preached the kingdom! Not understanding this has led you into error. You really don't listen do you? I don't know how much clearer this can be said by me, but I will try to spell it out for you one more time. Daniel 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” The abomination of desolation is the midpoint, how many times does this have to be pointed out to you? You should really stop guessing and start listening.

The difference is significant, the second trumpet turns 1/3 of the sea to blood, and kills 1/3 of the sea life. The second bowl turns it all to blood and kills all sea life. The third trumpet turns the freshwater supply bitter, all the rivers and springs become bitter, and some people die because of it. The third bowl turns all the freshwater supply into blood, and how long can people survive without water? No, I didn't miss the difference, that's the whole point, there is a distinction between the two. The difference is clear when you keep in mind what Jesus said to us, "as in the days of Noah". All of the trumpet judgements will be seen as natural disasters, or the result of human action. When the time for wrath comes, as shown at the 6th seal, there is no longer any doubt as to what is happening and why. And speaking of destruction, what did Paul call it, SUDDEN destruction. I Thessalonians 5 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Not drawn out over 7 years time, sudden destruction. "Peace and security" according to Paul, "as in the days of Noah" according to Jesus, then sudden destruction. All of the final events will take place quickly, right on top of each other and simultaneously in most instances. This is exactly why you see the events at the 7th vial connected to the 2 witnesses, which is connected to the 6th trumpet. No, you imagined something again. Please prove me wrong, post one scripture from the trumpets with the word wrath in it. My objection has been and remains with your attempt to separate the 2nd woe, 6th trumpet from the 2 witnesses where John puts it. God bless

Totally illogical, of course. So let's examine your suggestion, that this book that required 7 seals to be opened contains the trumpets and vials? What exactly is in this book according to you? First off, ask yourself why something that already appears in every copy of scripture is sealed in heaven? We have the trumpet and vial information in our hands, and in my bible they each require 1 page. So what you have here, is a 2 page book? And this information that is available on earth to anyone with a bible is sealed in heaven for what reason exactly? Ok, so here is a question that I really need to know your answer to, and I'll give you mine. What do you think the purpose of this entire thing is, meaning the entire creation up to the end? What is God's purpose in all of this? My answer is, God wanted to call out a holy people to inhabit His creation. It started that way, then man messed it up with the influence of satan, and now it requires restoration to get back to the original design. Hence my belief, that you find so far out in left field. In order to restore things back to the original design, God has to get rid of every hint of sin and wickedness. Ultimately this culminates in the punishment of satan and the fallen angels, and the separating of the sheep and the goats. The righteous from the wicked. God provided a way for all to become righteous, in Christ, and He is the only way for any of us to become holy and enter this promised land. For all those born again prior to the rapture, this has already been achieved, but for everyone else they must stand and be judged. When this occurs, there are books opened, and one of those books just happens to be called, the Lamb's book of life. Not anyone's book, but the Lamb's book. Why? Maybe because He was the only worthy of it? Maybe because He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by Him? What book could be more important than this book? God bless

It is hard to believe you can say that when you are trying to rearrange parts yourself, but what you do recognize is that there are multiple things going on at the same time. Now you just have to reconcile what John wrote to what events are going on simultaneously, but that statement in itself shows recognition that it is not chronological. It ends right where John tells us it ends, following the death of the 2 witnesses at the end of the week. But let's take a look at that event, just from the trumpet viewpoint and see what information is found there. Revelation 9:13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound. Ok, so we start off with 4 angels, who have been bound, and need to be released for this specific task. They are bound at the Euphrates River, which is to the northeast of Jerusalem. The river itself was the actual border of the Assyrian empire in their day. Now these angels were released to kill a third of mankind, but suddenly in verse 16 we see this 200 million army of horses, and the passage goes on to tell us that they do the actual killing, not the 4 angels. So what did these 4 angels do? And where do you think this 200 million army is?

I would say, given His foreknowledge, that it is possible the commandments referred to are a reference to what Jesus said while on earth. However there are certainly numerous passages that indicate the old customs being restored as well, such as animal sacrifices. There are also passages that state those nations that do not come to the temple in Jerusalem on a yearly basis will suffer for it, mentioning rain being withheld from their lands, etc. For the most part people take these passages literally, some consider them symbolic because the idea of returning to animal sacrifice doesn't ring true in light of the sacrifice Jesus made Himself. I guess we will not know for certain until we get there and see exactly what the Lord has in store for us. Personally I lean towards just agreeing with what the scriptures state as literal, even if I don't quite understand it. I do think most people agree with this form of eschatology, the only ones who don't seem to accept the Millennial period are either from the preterist camp, or amillennialists, neither of which is all that popular. God bless

If I understand you correctly I agree completely. What I see in Revelation, are all events that will seem completely natural based on the current conditions we see evolving. Global warming for example, increased interest in near earth objects hitting our planet, increased interest in aliens and their existence, etc. It cannot be true what Jesus said that it will be "as in the days of Noah" any other way. Right up until the signs of His coming, everything will go on as it has been and all the early events that precede it will appear to the masses as regular events taking place based on some of these scientific ideals. It is also fair to consider in all of this, that it has already begun and that those who believe some of the seals are already open are correct. God bless

It's definitely a future prophesy, but surely you have heard of the Millennial Kingdom?

John indicates this takes place at the end of the Millennial kingdom when Satan returns. I think most don't address it because they can't understand the timing of it. Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. God bless

I love music, always have and always will. I listen to a wide variety. I won't listen to certain artists or groups if their lyrics oppose my beliefs. AC/DC is one that comes to mind, because they sing songs that glorify the enemy or make light of things with serious implications, I don't find that amusing. God bless

Start with the implied collaboration, the woman is riding the beast. Then it is a matter of all the other shared attributes. The kings of the earth, and the dwellers of the earth are drunk on this city's wine, which is a reference to the spiritual influence. The beast we know from other scripture has demanded all worship be directed to him, so they are connected in the religious system. Then you have the reference to the city being drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Christ. The beast is the one who wages the 42 month war on the saints, but both of them are apparently accountable for the casualties of this war. So they are connected in the military system. Then we are told the city has dominion over the kings of the earth in the passage, and elsewhere in scripture we are told that the beast is given authority over everyone. So they are also connected in rulership. Conclusion, the beast is reigning from this city. God bless

I see it nearly the same way, the timing part I agree with, but I don't put much trust in the book of enoch. However, I do agree with the basic idea as to how you see it happening. God bless

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. The day of the Lord is not from the past.

They are the same thing, which is why the two passages mirror each other. You want to quibble about minor differences like how the sun is darkened or how the moon loses its light, but of course you didn't touch the stars falling from heaven because after all, how many times can that happen, right? The connection with the fig tree as well, just another one of those weird coincidences I guess. Sure it does, if it has anything to do with the trumpets it should. The reason it isn't mentioned there, is because it doesn't have anything to do with the trumpets because the 7th seal comes at the end as well, and the book needs to be opened for the time of judgement. At least, that's what John wrote. How long do you suspect this takes. Joel 2 Blow a trumpet in Zion; sound an alarm on my holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming; it is near, 2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness there is spread upon the mountains a great and powerful people; their like has never been before, nor will be again after them through the years of all generations. 3 Fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them, but behind them a desolate wilderness, and nothing escapes them. 4 Their appearance is like the appearance of horses, and like war horses they run. 5 As with the rumbling of chariots, they leap on the tops of the mountains, like the crackling of a flame of fire devouring the stubble, like a powerful army drawn up for battle. 6 Before them peoples are in anguish; all faces grow pale. 7 Like warriors they charge; like soldiers they scale the wall. They march each on his way; they do not swerve from their paths. 8 They do not jostle one another; each marches in his path; they burst through the weapons and are not halted. 9 They leap upon the city, they run upon the walls, they climb up into the houses, they enter through the windows like a thief. 10 The earth quakes before them; the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. 11 The Lord utters his voice before his army, for his camp is exceedingly great; he who executes his word is powerful. For the day of the Lord is great and very awesome; who can endure it? What is stated above, disproves what you say below. Like the garden of eden in front of them, but a desolate wilderness is the area they covered, and nothing escapes them. Again, the difference between the trumpet, and the wrath at the vial are much different, it is a distinction you are not accounting for which is necessary. 0% chance, John tells us when the books are opened, and it is after the trumpets are finished. Most likely it is the book of life, because it makes a lot more sense that this is the book Jesus was required to open, without Him, no eternal life, end of story. Why? Because my beliefs are found in scripture rather than imagination? Not a chance, I am going to trust what is in God's word, which is what John wrote. You are free to follow your imagination if you want, but I wouldn't expect much company. The irony of this is, you and I have been debating this topic for years now, and you don't even have the slightest grasp on my position. I have been telling you this for years and you have been arguing the opposite. If you spent more time listening than arguing, you might actually realize you are coming over to what I have been telling you all along. The problem with us agreeing completely is your clinging to a chronology that doesn't exist, and trying to create your own version by extracting the 2 witnesses death from the second woe, 6th trumpet, as written by John. God bless

I imagine we find this in scripture along with your lease agreement right? As I have stated in regards to your mishandling of scripture in regards to chapter 11 I will repeat myself here. Rather than accept where John tells you the books are opened you choose to invent things that are not scripture so you can cling to your false chronology belief. It doesn't hold water, sorry. God bless

I suggest you read it again, what you should notice is that the trumpets are called judgements, the vials are called wrath. There is a difference, and it is clear. There is no parentheses, the entirety of verses 1-14 go together and connects the timing of the two witnesses death and resurrection with the completion of the 2nd woe, 6th trumpet. No matter how many times you say otherwise, this is the truth of the matter. The 6th trumpet happens at the end of the week, not the beginning, because Revelation is not chronological, regardless of what you think. No, it begins just before the midway point. I have been telling you this for years now. No, the 42 months is complete at the end of the week. It runs at the same time as the 2 witnesses are here, maybe a few days difference, maybe not. I have been telling you this for years now as well. No, this ends at His coming, which I have also been telling you for years now. No, this ends at His coming, which I have also been telling you for years now. No John does not, the parentheses is your invention and imagination regarding something that I have been telling you for years without any parentheses necessary. The mark will be enforced as soon as the image is ready, we are given no time in regards to the mark itself. There are no parentheses, the book is not chronological. There are no parentheses, nor is this attributable to John, this is your imagination and invention because you refuse to accept the truth. Chapter 11 verses 1-14 remain intact, covering their entire 3.5 year period on earth, and placing the 2nd woe, 6th trumpet at the end of the week. Exactly what I have been telling you for years now. The chronology you lay out also does not align with scripture, I will show you a few blatant errors. Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. Jesus says the great tribulation begins right after the AoD, and in my opinion will correlate with the exact timing of the war on the saints. That is your midpoint marker, the abomination of desolation. That is when the great tribulation begins, and whoever is going to flee will do so immediately, as you can see they are told not to even go back for their cloaks. You want to stretch this out it seems, but I disagree based on the urgency of the instructions. Daniel tells you the same thing, the abomination of desolation is the middle of the week. All of the 3.5 year markers must begin or have already begun with this action. The 42 month war on the saints, the 1260 days of protection and nourishment of the woman begin at this moment. God bless

Great, now show us where those things in Matthew 24 are found in Revelation. I'll be waiting.

I responded to it, but it says you have not read my response.

How convenient for your false theory that you get to remove all the text associated with it and leave three verses to comprise the entire second woe. Yeah, so believable.

There is no doubt that Isaiah 2 is speaking about the same events. How about comparing them to the wrath, since that is what is being spoken of? Revelation 16:3 The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a corpse, and every living thing died that was in the sea. 4 The third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of water, and they became blood. Revelation 16:8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory. 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish 11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds. Which are called wrath, and which better reflect destruction? And also, how do you suppose what Isaiah said in 13:9 that you posted above can be true? If all the sinners are destroyed out of the land at the sixth seal and that is the beginning, then who is left for all that follows? Of course, they are practically identical because they are different, gotcha I'll tell you what, why don't you show us where the events Jesus described are found in the book of Revelation then. You don't believe He was mistaken do you? No, you just didn't read it carefully enough, I'll make it easier this time and maybe you can catch it. Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. But like I asked previously, show where this occurs in the book of Revelation. You are not quoting from chapter 8 where you claim the book mentioned in chapter 5 is opened. This is a deflection again from the facts. You make a claim that the book has to be opened for the trumpets and vials, but when we read the opening of the 7th seal, there is no book found mentioned at all, why? Where we differ here is not that complicated, you are once again penciling something into the text that is not there, to fit your theory. Why not just believe what is written in scripture, and accept where John tells you the books are opened? Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Again, you will notice the timing of books being opened is at the end, coinciding with what is spoken at the 7th trumpet. Once again, your argument for chronology is just a convenient way for you to move things about as you please, and condemn others for disagreeing with your chronology. Your theory simply doesn't fit with what is written. God bless

It is simple, because you want to remove verse 14 from the text so you can continue to cling to your chronology. Not a credible argument.

Here is a novel idea, how about you leave the understanding of Greek to people who actually understand it? If you were standing in front of me and I spoke to you in Greek, would you have any idea what I said? I'm direct, so I'll explain it to you in the most simplistic way what bothers me. What bothers me, is your sloppy handling of the text so you can mold it into whatever you want it to say. This response is a prime example of what I mean. At the opening of the 6th seal, a bunch of unbelievers that are hiding in the caves say “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” You accept this as an absolute given, though the words come from the mouth of God Himself. Your concrete evidence, is a bunch of unbelievers and their understanding of scripture. Then we get to the 7th trumpet, and what is spoken by the 24 elders, who are holy and pure obviously, because they are in the presence of God Himself, and you treat their words with blatant disregard and try to dismiss them as though they are some sort of mistake in timing. Care to explain that? It would be better if folks like yourself that have no idea how to speak Greek, and are not fluent in the language, to accept that some people are and that the word of God was delivered to you in your language as it should be. I would also appreciate if you explain the most important aspect of what I asked you in regards to the sounding of the 7th trumpet. The opening section, and Jesus' kingdom. Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” The world has become His kingdom, when do the prophets say that is? God bless

How many languages are you fluent in? Is Greek one of them? The reason I ask is simple. The disciples were a punch of poor, uneducated fisherman, and yet somehow they were fluent in a language that was not their native tongue, and not just able to speak it, but also to read and write it. In case you don't know the history of the Greeks, their civilization was pretty impressive, all these writers and philosophers and such. Pity none of them had any clue what anyone else was talking about, at least that is how you present your case. And what in those passages makes you connect them together? You also can't have it both ways and just pluck a few verses out of it to move. The entire passage goes together, from verses 1-14 or you have the 2 witnesses here for more than 1260 days. What you really want to do here is REMOVE verse 14 from the text because it ties these events to the 6th trumpet, which is the 2nd woe. Let's just be honest about your entire reasoning behind your invisible parentheses theory. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Look, verses 1-3 cover the measuring of the temple, the trampling of the city by the gentiles, and the introduction to the 2 witnesses and their 1260 day visit. That places them just before the midpoint, then John precedes to tell you the highlights of their ministry for that time period culminating in their death and resurrection. Then he tells you at the conclusion that the 2nd woe (6th trumpet) is done and the 3rd woe (7th trumpet) comes quickly. This is your problem and what you continue not to address, you have already attached the 6th trumpet to the 7th vial! You're doing it though, that's exactly what you have presented. The difference is, you want to eliminate a verse and pretend it doesn't exist so you can say that you are not, and it doesn't fly. God bless

Honestly I thought the opening sentence that read, "Let's play a game called iamlamad's insistence on chronology" was an obvious clue, but apparently not as obvious as I expected because you are not the first person to misunderstand my position. I will have to rethink that approach in the future for sure. I agree, the rescue of His people is the priority according to the prophets and what takes place. One particular passage that has always struck a chord with me, which dates back to the beginning of the very first temple is fitting. I think this promise, though at that time wouldn't have been thought to be in regards to the future, certainly is applicable. II Chronicles 7:14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land. Fair point. What Joel describes in chapter 2 doesn't appear to be something that will take all that long. Joel 2:2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness there is spread upon the mountains a great and powerful people; their like has never been before, nor will be again after them through the years of all generations. 3 Fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them, but behind them a desolate wilderness, and nothing escapes them. 4 Their appearance is like the appearance of horses, and like war horses they run. 5 As with the rumbling of chariots, they leap on the tops of the mountains, like the crackling of a flame of fire devouring the stubble, like a powerful army drawn up for battle. 6 Before them peoples are in anguish; all faces grow pale. 7 Like warriors they charge; like soldiers they scale the wall. They march each on his way; they do not swerve from their paths. Agreed. God bless

Brother, I am not reacting to the study of God's word, what I am reacting to is the audacity to attack others over chronology and then decide to insert "parentheses" that do not exist in any translation of scripture so that you can move things around at your leisure. What is unbelievable is that you think that this sort of treatment towards others is fair or acceptable. What it is my friend, is hypocritical. And just as a side note, on October 11th, in the thread titled "he shall subdue three kings", starting on page 11 at the bottom, you engaged me in a discussion reading the chronology issue with a false accusation, followed by more false accusations, and never once brought this up. But will you deal with what takes place as a result of the 7th trumpet, that is the question? Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying, “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign. 18 The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” 19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. So what does it mean when it says the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord? What is His kingdom? Remember the Lord's prayer? Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Also, just to be clear, please note that it says THE kingdom of the world, not plural, but one kingdom of the world. Any ideas as to why it is one kingdom? What do the elders mean when they say in the past tense, your wrath came? When are the dead judged? At what point are the prophets and saints rewarded? Is that all? Well let's just examine that for a moment with a brief glance to the beginning of chapter 11, because apparently you are overlooking the fact that this chapter is all about them. Revelation 11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” So what now, relocate your parentheses? Because now you have a much more serious problem, if you don't move your parentheses you are changing the number of days they are to prophesy. So what does that leave you with in chapter 11 once you do that? Revelation 11 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 14 The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come. Wow! That's some woe we have there! Unfortunately for you, if you notice from the previously posted verse 3, it is part and parcel with verses 1 and 2 in quotations, not imaginary quotations either, they are really there. So guess what that means? Yeah, verses 1-14 all go together, and now you have just put the sixth trumpet and connected it with the 7th vial. Which means what? Yeah, 7th trumpet has to come in there right along with it like I've been telling you all along, at the end. You're going to have to rethink this I believe, at least if you ever want to make sense of Revelation and the rest of prophecy. But I'll tell you what, there is another way of looking at this. Instead of moving the 7th trumpet, leave it right where it is, and everything that follows after that point you will need to rearrange where they belong, including the vials/bowls. Think of all the parentheses you can add in 11 chapters! God bless