wingnut-

Yes.

Matthew 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. 14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

It is neither, Jerusalem is identified in scripture. Read Ezekiel 16, pretty straightforward. God bless

The only sin scripture says is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Drifting away from God does not qualify as such. The fact that you show concern for this is evidence that is not the case, because if you were truly given over to a depraved mind you would not care. The enemy is the one who sows doubt, as he will do anything to take your peace from you. Resist the devil and he will flee. Praying for you God bless

I would say Old Covenant to avoid confusion myself, but yes, the New Covenant begins with the sacrifice.

Welcome to worthy

Most likely not. For a believer God comes first, this will eventually cause friction with the unbelieving spouse who will not like sitting second chair.

Brother, I just want to say I love you, but you are looking past the most important detail, the very thing that has saved you for all eternity. The difference is, Jesus had not yet come to earth. He had not yet lived out perfection. He had not yet died and rose again, claiming victory. He is your savior, my savior, and anyone else who accepts Him. Jesus did not die for Satan, He died because of Satan. And when death and sin have been conquered, there will be no more sin or evil, there will be only good. No chance of rebellion once there is only one side to the coin, only perfection. God bless

Knowing what they will do, and choosing that they do it are two different things. Indeed, Judas is a great example to look at in this regard. Consider this, if you were in his place, and had walked with Jesus, learned from Him directly, and had been loved by Him in the flesh, would you have betrayed Him? Judas made his own choice because that was what was in his heart, paid in silver. If someone offered you a billion dollars tomorrow to betray Jesus, would you agree to it? What made Pharaoh the way he was? Was it God, or did it have to do with his corruption via power? Did Pharaoh not believe himself to be a god? God allowed Pharaoh to rise up, so that His power could be shown to the world. What a person does with wicked intentions, God can use to His glory, and for His purposes. We know that scripture tells us, each world leader rises up according to God's will and perfect plan. Historically we can look back and see the rise of Hitler to power, and what came as a result of the holocaust, a nation reborn. They make their own choices, exactly. That does not mean that God has not endured them patiently. What we do not know, are what efforts, and how many attempts God makes to reach an individual before He gives them over to their depravity. God bless

In a recent conversation, the topic of God's will came up, and I was asked for my thoughts after posting a segment of this chapter. I was unable to respond before the thread was locked, but after talking with George and making sure I wasn't stepping on any toes, I would like to address the question here. @Cletus @Butero Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? My thought process begins with Paul's question regarding injustice. For there to be justice or injustice, there must be evidence that is weighed to reach either conclusion. This is where God's foreknowledge enters the picture. When we consider that God not only knows what we do or say, but what we think, and what is truly in a person's heart, then the picture becomes less fuzzy. God's elect, are chosen on what basis? In scripture, the elect are often referred to as the Bride. So we can look to the scriptures regarding God's definition of marriage, and what His expectations are for both the husband and the wife. Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Jesus has perfectly filled the role of the husband, and in order for anyone to qualify as one of the elect, they must fulfill the role of the wife. Submission to God is the key to all of this. God knows each person, and He knows who has the capacity to submit, and who does not. Submission is one of those topics that draws two responses, agreement, or withdrawal. As we speak, this world is full of people who object just to the mere mention of this word, and will argue tooth and nail against this biblical concept which not only applies to everyday life for families, but more importantly to our relationship with the Lord. It is not open to debate, it is God's will. If the idea of submission offends you, then you have some serious issues to work through with God, because He requires it. God is looking for a faithful bride, one that will love Him as He deserves to be loved. He chooses those who have the capacity and heart to love Him, this is His elect. God does not create people to destroy them, people destroy themselves because they love themselves more than they love God, and for this reason they will not relinquish the illusion of control and submit to God. Notice what is said in verse 22 from Romans 9. Romans 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, God has endured with much patience, what does that mean to you? To me, it is an illustration of what is said elsewhere in scripture, that God wants none to perish, so He is patient with all, but not all will love Him in return. They are vessels of wrath because of their rejection, and they were not created for destruction, they are prepared for it by their own actions. This is summarized in scripture as well. Romans 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. Romans 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. These excerpts from Romans 1 display the difference in God creating someone for destruction, or allowing someone the freewill to destroy themselves. They do so because they lack the capacity to truly love anyone other than themselves and their fleshly desires. So God gives them over to their desires, and they prepare themselves for destruction. What more can God do to present Himself as the perfect husband than what He has already done? The answer is nothing. This verse sums it up best I think. Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. God bless

Dealing with trauma is no small matter, and I would encourage you to speak with someone who can counsel you regarding that. Just know you have my prayers, as well as the prayers of others I am sure. God wants to see you free from the bondage of this pain, and forgiveness is a process that will get you out. Just know, there will come a day when you realize that it is finished, that your pain and anger has passed, and you will be filled with joy when that day comes. Just don't lose heart, remember what the apostle Paul wrote, fight the good fight, and overcome evil with good. God bless

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Thanks for indulging me brother, it appears we share the same thoughts on the matter. God bless

Actually it doesn't if you misunderstand what it means to be further clothed. When Jesus tells the disciples to remain in the city until they are further clothed from power on high, they listened. Years later they were all killed for their faith, which means they were not immortal when already clothed. Think about it.

The confusion in regards to soul sleep, is simply mistaking what it means to be clothed. For clarification, look to what Jesus said specifically in regards to being clothed, which clears up also what it means to be naked. Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” To be clothed is to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which was the promise of the Father. Also, refer to Jesus' comments to Nicodemus regarding what is required to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born again of water and Spirit. John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. God bless

From Romans 8, one of my favorite passages of scripture. One important distinction to be made in this passage, Paul is specifically addressing the elect, which begs the question, what are the qualifiers for being one of the elect?

I don't see anywhere in this thread where Butero claims he can save himself. If you want to point out the post in which he makes this claim, I will stand corrected. And in regards to whether or not you have endorsed people going out and sinning willfully, I haven't seen that either. Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying.

I agree with you of course, regarding God's foreknowledge. Since you acknowledge we are making decisions, I would take your answer to belief in free will as a yes. As for my second question, is there any scripture that implies or says that free will is taken away from an individual?

Do you believe in free will? If so, is there any indication in scripture that it is taken away?

I believe it is, if people can set emotion aside and simply discuss the relevant scripture. In my opinion, the best place to start is the matter of whether one can walk away from God or not. I think we all can agree that God will not walk away from us, and as support for this we simply look to what Jesus said on the subject, I will never leave you nor forsake you. So that begs the question, can a person walk away from Him? This is really the heart of the debate that needs to be addressed, scripturally. God bless

There is a reason this debate has not changed for hundreds of years, and we are seeing it displayed in this thread just as we have in all the other threads on the subject. No one is going to get banned though, possibly removed from the thread, but fear not! Another one will arise from the ashes and we will start over again with the same result! The question is why the result will be the same, and the answer is not all that complicated. One side of the argument reverts to the accusation that if not OSAS, then the individual must be of the mindset they save themselves, nullifying the work of Christ. The other side, will revert to the accusation that if OSAS, then you promote willful sinning with unabashed shame. Of course in either case, there are never any statements made to support either claim, so round and round we go. Cheese is nice if you have some crackers to go with it, but a bag of popcorn also goes hand in hand with a good show. God bless

I think you quoted the wrong person, that is not my post.

Scripture tells us that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So God's definition of salvation has not wavered one bit. Unfortunately, men have redefined repentance in modern times. If you have the time, I would suggest watching this video for clarification of how things have changed in more recent times regarding repentance, salvation, and how the church has turned the sinners prayer into a fast food version of salvation with no real discipleship for those new to the faith.

I agree with that, but I think how one defines salvation may be where some of the confusion or differences begin. Clarification is offered in scripture of course, straight from the mouth of Jesus. John 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” God bless