Replacement Theology

[Guest alias]

Hi,

It states in Zechariah 8:23 that the future is NOT in Christianity but in a return for all to their Jewish roots. I look at the "church" and it resembles nothing of what God has commanded in His Holy word. For starters the "church" worship the Holy One of Israel on the wrong day. Do you think He's happy about that?

With regard to Zechariah 8:23, um let me be more precise and clear about this...I'll rely on Zechariah's words.

23  Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, WE WILL GO WITH YOU: FOR WE HAVE HEARD THAT GOD IS WITH YOU.

It states that gentiles will seek Jews out to learn from them, this has always been the way, and THIS IS WHY ISRAEL WAS CHOSEN IN THE FIRST PLACE ABOVE ALL THE NATIONS OF THIS WORLD.

ISRAEL WAS CHOSEN TO TESTIFY OF THE GLORY OF THE HOLY ONE. Yeshua likewise pointed those towards the Holy One of Israel. If the Christians say that they love Jesus Christ, they are really saying that they love a Jewish Rabbi. They are really saying they love a Jew.

Personally IMHO salvation is not in the "church" but salvation is of the Jews, as Yeshua stated explictly. If those round abouts want to curse Israel to the dung heap of this world, then I say there is nothing that can be done. But surely as the Holy One sits on High, His word states those who "curse you I will curse, and those who bless you I will bless".

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

I am glad to see that most on this thread have a well balanced view of Jew and Gentile and that only a very minority are radical Judaizers.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

Alias,

Not sure how you can prove all of that with scripture, but God bless ya!

Israel and the church are two entirely different things.  Salvation is of the Jews because they are the root, we are the branches from the root, we were grafted in so that we might be saved too. :thumb:

[brontosaurus]

I think the critical issue here is this:  When the old testament prophecies about the Jews in prophecies that have not yet come true, will they still have their fulfillment one day in blood-line Jewish people, or can you say by process of rejecting the gospel, God is only referring to "His people" who are now strictly the born-again church and the Jews are no different than any other race or religion.

Another way to state it is this: when the Jews as a whole rejected Jesus, did they lose their place as God's chosen people?  And did the Christians take that place.

The Bible is clear: they DID lose their place of salvation, and those gentiles who believed received it instead, being grafted into the branches that were "broken off and thrown into the fire [hell]."

But as a whole people, the Jewish people did NOT lose their calling or inheritance.  Rather, because of unbelief, it was post-poned or sidetracked, while the gentiles received a fullness of salvation, and the Jews received a fullness of persecution to purify them to be the end-time world leaders that they could have been in the first place.  This summarizes the last 2000 years: salvation for Gentiles, persecution for Jews.  This is God's plan.

And it will all come together when Paul's words from Romans 11:15 come true in the end times.

"For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"

The problem I think some are referring to is that some people under the umbrella of "Covenant theology" actually say that God is done with the Jewish people, finished, caput.  If they are born again, then they have inheritance as Christians but they will never have any inheritance again specifically for being "Jewish", saved or unsaved.  And therefore, all the O.T. prophecies that once referred to the people of Israel in the Bible now only refer to the born-again church.

Does anyone on this board really believe the way I described the above paragraph?  This is the real problem, for there are people who really believe that just as I have stated it and they preach that Christians should NOT support the modern nation of Israel or treat Jews any more specially than any other unsaved people group, because that Jewish chapter of spiritual history is over.  Of course this way of believing totally negates Romans 11:15.

[brontosaurus]

The Jewish people are not done.  They are only asleep.  The ones who die in their unbelief will go to eternal separation from God, but the original plan stands - A remnant of the people who are directly descended from Abraham will one day become the spiritual leaders of the world.

[wordsower]

Brontosaurus,

Sounds like you have the same understanding as I do.  I think there has to be a lot of scripture-twisting to say they are done and we get all of their blessings, too many prophesies still unfulfilled and being fulfilled currently for that to be true.

I understand that they will be "unblinded" after the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.  Do you know if they will always be here on earth or will they get to go to heaven after the millinium?  I'm confused about "They shall never enter My Rest" Hebrews 4.

[Guest Brother Ben]

Exod 19:5-6

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

QUESTION WHY WAS iSRAEL GIVEN A BILL OF DIVORCE IN HOSEA?

Being saved and being part of Gods chosen people are two different things.

We are saved by faith just as was Abraham and if we want to be part of Gods chosen people we must keep the commandments of God.

Abraham believed God and his faith was counted for righteousness.

Abraham obeyed God and because of his obediance God blessed him.

Brother Ben  shelah

[brontosaurus]

Brother Ben,

Please don't tell me you mean that God gave a PERMANENT divorce to Israel.  He says over and over and over and over again that if His people are rebellious, He will scourge them, cast them out of their lands, make them a byword among nations, and even that they would perish.  And just as many times He says that when they repent, he will have lovingkindess on them, he will bring them back to their own land, and He will call them His people once again.  

For this reason, Paul says to those "grafted in": Do not think too highly of yourself, for you are the wild olive branch and you remain grafted in by faith, but if they lost their inheritance as the natural olive branch, how much more easily will you be broken off, if you do the same things they did.  And how much more easily will the natural olive branches be grafted back in if they repent.

[brontosaurus]

Wordsower,

Hebrews 4 is speaking to those who refused to repent and died in their sins.  They are obviously "cut off" for eternity.  But they are the bad ones, not the "remnant" which God will deliver and save and purify for Himself.  Hope that makes it a little more clear...

Bronto

[wordsower]

Bront--That does make sense!  Thanks!

As far as Hosea goes, that whole story is God's relationship with Israel, they were unfaithful, punished and restored (ch. 2) and reconciled (ch. 3) then punished and unfaithful again and then called to repentance (ch 14)