nebula Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 21, 2009 So why is it that everyone assumes that Adam and Eve DID NOT eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life? How long do you suppose that they were in the Garden - I have my reasons, but I strongly suspect about 70 years. Okay, I believe in the types and shadows of the OT as may be revealed in the NT. Do you realize in the NT, we have a "Tree of Life"? Now tell me, do you eat of that tree once then forget it forever? Of course not. I find myself eating from that tree every day of my life - because it gives life to my spirit. Now don't you suppose that for every day Adam and Eve were in the Garden they ate from the Tree of Life? BTW - I've considered this idea as well. I like how you explained it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings All, So why is it that everyone assumes that Adam and Eve DID NOT eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life? How long do you suppose that they were in the Garden - I have my reasons, but I strongly suspect about 70 years. Okay, I believe in the types and shadows of the OT as may be revealed in the NT. Do you realize in the NT, we have a "Tree of Life"? Now tell me, do you eat of that tree once then forget it forever? Of course not. I find myself eating from that tree every day of my life - because it gives life to my spirit. Now don't you suppose that for every day Adam and Eve were in the Garden they ate from the Tree of Life? Of course, they probably had other fruit and vegetables to eat, but I would bet that "Tree of Life" fruit was absolutely scrumptious and nourishing for the body, perhaps as well as the spirit. It may not have been quite as "pretty" as the fruit from the other tree, but let me give you this to consider: Ezekiel 28:13-15 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. NOW YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HELP ME OUT HERE, CAUSE I CAN'T REMEMBER A VERSE: In the OT, a verse describes the appearance of our Lord as being uncomely, nothing to look upon, or to take notice of. Consider those two verses. We see Satan as beautiful and gorgeous and even in the NT it is said he can appear as an "angel of light". Whereas Jesus in contrast, was not distinguished in appearance. I bring these verses up because the "Tree of Life" probably was not as beautiful as the "Tree of Knowledge". In any case, I believe Adam and Eve ate from that Tree of Life as long as they were in the Garden. Once they were removed from the tree of life - this is what is said: Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So if Adam and Eve were allowed to stay in the Garden and EAT DAILY of the Tree of Life, they would live forever in a state of SIN. God Bless, Dad Ernie P.S. BTW, I do believe we shall see them in Heaven, as God made propitiation for them with a covering - UNTIL the time of Christ, when their sins were paid for, as were all the OT saints. I agree. They could have been eating from the tree of life and I also believe that they were of a different breed then we are. In Genesis 4:26 the name "Enos" means frail and incurable. The bible says that Enos live a total of 950 years and then he died. So what was incurable about Enos was not a physical disease but Him as a whole. I to believe that Adam and Eve were meant to live forever but after the fall that became impossible for God to allow and that is when the body began to change, became weak, and to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings All, So why is it that everyone assumes that Adam and Eve DID NOT eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life? How long do you suppose that they were in the Garden - I have my reasons, but I strongly suspect about 70 years. Okay, I believe in the types and shadows of the OT as may be revealed in the NT. Do you realize in the NT, we have a "Tree of Life"? Now tell me, do you eat of that tree once then forget it forever? Of course not. I find myself eating from that tree every day of my life - because it gives life to my spirit. Now don't you suppose that for every day Adam and Eve were in the Garden they ate from the Tree of Life? Of course, they probably had other fruit and vegetables to eat, but I would bet that "Tree of Life" fruit was absolutely scrumptious and nourishing for the body, perhaps as well as the spirit. It may not have been quite as "pretty" as the fruit from the other tree, but let me give you this to consider: Ezekiel 28:13-15 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. NOW YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HELP ME OUT HERE, CAUSE I CAN'T REMEMBER A VERSE: In the OT, a verse describes the appearance of our Lord as being uncomely, nothing to look upon, or to take notice of. Consider those two verses. We see Satan as beautiful and gorgeous and even in the NT it is said he can appear as an "angel of light". Whereas Jesus in contrast, was not distinguished in appearance. I bring these verses up because the "Tree of Life" probably was not as beautiful as the "Tree of Knowledge". In any case, I believe Adam and Eve ate from that Tree of Life as long as they were in the Garden. Once they were removed from the tree of life - this is what is said: Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So if Adam and Eve were allowed to stay in the Garden and EAT DAILY of the Tree of Life, they would live forever in a state of SIN. God Bless, Dad Ernie P.S. BTW, I do believe we shall see them in Heaven, as God made propitiation for them with a covering - UNTIL the time of Christ, when their sins were paid for, as were all the OT saints. OK ... consider me a stick in the mud, but if Adam and Eve only had to eat once from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to gain this knowledge forever, then would they not also live forever if they ate from the tree of life? Does not God say in Genesis 3:22 this ... "and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"? If the fruit from that tree was only temporary, then God would have nothing to worry about. It would seem that these two trees were special in the same way. Scripture does not say one way or the other, but this is what I have always believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings Massorite, I agree. They could have been eating from the tree of life and I also believe that they were of a different breed then we are. In Genesis 4:26 the name "Enos" means frail and incurable. The bible says that Enos live a total of 950 years and then he died. So what was incurable about Enos was not a physical disease but Him as a whole. I to believe that Adam and Eve were meant to live forever but after the fall that became impossible for God to allow and that is when the body began to change, became weak, and to die. Have you considered: Romans 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. I have raised this issue before, somewhere, and I was INFORMED that these verses applied to AFTER the FALL. In my research of this I have not found any of our great expositors that agree with me, but I have found no satisfactory reason to believe otherwise. I disagree for many reasons. I believe they apply to the very beginning of creation and to ALL of God's creatures including man. First, many purport that Adam and Eve were created "perfect", which is an outright lie. Only one of God's creatures were created "perfect" and that was Satan. Surprised? Jesus WAS NOT CREATED! Okay, I think you know what I mean. Let me give you some thoughts: For the first five days of creation, God declared that what He created was "Good". On the sixth day, God declared that " Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Let me put that in MY words: "every thing he had made (for HIS PURPOSES)". YES, YES, I KNOW - DO NOT ADD OR TAKE AWAY.... But would you say that interpretation sounds better than declaring that Adam and Eve were created "perfect"? What I am saying here is that WE are made of the same stuff that Adam and Eve were. The difference is that they were not born into a world of sin, but WE ARE. Every baby has waiting for him/her that day they will sin (offend God) - JUST LIKE ADAM AND EVE! There is more here that I could add, but this may already be too long for many. Next - Consider: Psalms 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: In light of this last verse - who is going to say that Adam and Eve were PERFECT? One more verse: Phil 2:6-8 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. So in order of "perfection" we find that at one time (ministry of Jesus) this was the order of "perfection" (if I can keep from being blasphemos) (there may be a better word): GOD SATAN AND THE ANGELS JESUS MAN (INCLUDING ADAM & EVE) To conclude: Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 3153 mataiotes {mat-ah-yot'-ace} from 3152; TDNT - 4:523,571; n f AV - vanity 3; 3 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness 2) perverseness, depravity 3) frailty, want of vigour Seeing this definition, and considering that Adam and Eve were unable to resist the wiles of the serpant, I would have to say that this definition most definately applied to them, as well as it does to us. Sorry for the length, but I could have said more. God Bless, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings OneLight, OK ... consider me a stick in the mud, but if Adam and Eve only had to eat once from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to gain this knowledge forever, then would they not also live forever if they ate from the tree of life? Does not God say in Genesis 3:22 this ... "and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"? If the fruit from that tree was only temporary, then God would have nothing to worry about. It would seem that these two trees were special in the same way. Scripture does not say one way or the other, but this is what I have always believed. They would "live forever" ONLY if they remained in the Garden of Eden and continued to eat of the Tree of Life. I think I know what you are saying, in that once you eat from the Tree of Knowledge, the knowledge you receive remains with you forever. Is that right? So why doesn't the life you get from the Tree of Life remain with you forever? Have you ever tried to GET RID OF KNOWLEDGE? Have you ever tried to ADD ONE MORE DAY TO YOUR LIFE? Do you see the dillimma? Did I answer your question? God Bless, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings OneLight, OK ... consider me a stick in the mud, but if Adam and Eve only had to eat once from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to gain this knowledge forever, then would they not also live forever if they ate from the tree of life? Does not God say in Genesis 3:22 this ... "and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"? If the fruit from that tree was only temporary, then God would have nothing to worry about. It would seem that these two trees were special in the same way. Scripture does not say one way or the other, but this is what I have always believed. They would "live forever" ONLY if they remained in the Garden of Eden and continued to eat of the Tree of Life. I think I know what you are saying, in that once you eat from the Tree of Knowledge, the knowledge you receive remains with you forever. Is that right? So why doesn't the life you get from the Tree of Life remain with you forever? Have you ever tried to GET RID OF KNOWLEDGE? Have you ever tried to ADD ONE MORE DAY TO YOUR LIFE? Do you see the dillimma? Did I answer your question? God Bless, Dad Ernie Not really. What we know as knowledge and how we try to add to our life, outside of God , is different then with God. From what I understand, God only speaks of two types of trees, Knowledge and Life. Why would they be different. where one lasts forever and the other does not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Not really. What we know as knowledge and how we try to add to our life, outside of God , is different then with God. From what I understand, God only speaks of two types of trees, Knowledge and Life. Why would they be different. where one lasts forever and the other does not? well, this is where things get complicated. Was it the fruit that brought sin into Adam and Eve? Or was it the complete act of disobedience that brought sin into them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Greetings OneLight Not really. What we know as knowledge and how we try to add to our life, outside of God , is different then with God. From what I understand, God only speaks of two types of trees, Knowledge and Life. Why would they be different. where one lasts forever and the other does not? Perhaps I wasn't clear - You don't have to KEEP EATING of the Tree of Knowledge to retain knowledge forever. Have you forgotten your name yet? What about a book you have recently read? Did you forget it so soon? I think not. Somewhere tucked in the cells of your brain is all the knowledge from your birth till now. However, "life" is different: Mat 6:27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto the measure of his life? Your days are numbered, not by you, but by God. You cannot add even one hour to your life. So what does eating from the Tree of Life mean? Jesus is the bread and in Him is LIFE. Do you think you can only eat of Him ONCE and then you are forever saved? I really think not and this has nothing to do with OSAS. Either you pick up your cross and follow Him on a daily basis, eat of Him every day, OR you are none of His. DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? God Bless, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted March 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2009 So why is it that everyone assumes that Adam and Eve DID NOT eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life? How long do you suppose that they were in the Garden - I have my reasons, but I strongly suspect about 70 years . . . I would love to hear your "reasons." Good to see you BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted March 22, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Greetings BlindSeeker I would love to hear your "reasons." Good to see you again. In one of my biblical books, perhaps my Bible encyclopedia, I run across the idea that in Hebrew literature, the word "forever" or "for ever" is frequently synonomous with 1,000 years. For confirming this, you would probably have to find a Jewish scholar. Anyway, Adam had to have been in the Garden for some time. He had to name ALL the animals and he had to learn all about farming and agriculture. I'm sure he didn't do just that, but even these two tasks would take a very long time. All the time he remained in the Garden, he didn't grow old. So basically he started growing old once he was kicked out of the Garden. He lived to be 930 years old - providing you started counting after the garden. This is an example of what I was saying: Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. 08141 shaneh (in pl. only), {shaw-neh'} or (fem.) shana from 08138; TWOT - 2419a; n f AV - year 797, not translated 55, yearly 3, yearly + 08141 2, year + 01121 1, live + 02416 1, old + 02416 + 03117 1, misc 4; 875 1) year 1a) as division of time 1b) as measure of time 1c) as indication of age 1d) a lifetime (of years of life) Look into the Hebrew numbering system - particularly for the # 1,000 and see if there is a direct reference to "forever or always". Just my own thoughts - something to consider. God Bless, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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