What would it take for you to beleive?

[Sir Gareth]

To all the atheists, agnostics and other such people who visit here, I just wanted to know, what would it take for you to beleive in God?

[Believer1997]

Good question... but I think for most of them... it would take something that they are too afraid to explore - Faith. I think it's what leads these people to this site - they want some type of validation that their "beliefs" are right... I don't think they will find that satisfaction and solace here... Praying!!

[MorningGlory]

I'd be interested in knowing that myself.

[Believer1997]

Well, some kind of proof that he exists.

John 20:

20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. "The print of the nails"

Torture stake or cross?

20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. "After eight days"

When did Jesus ascent into heaven?

20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. "Reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side."

Was it OK to touch the risen Jesus?

20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God

Thomas was afforded the chance to witness the resurrection first hand, and according to the bible, lots of people got first hand evidence of Jesus going around performing miracles. It seems mighty unfair that someone like Thomas should get first hand proof when people today get nothing.

As for what I'd consider "sufficient proof"? Well, a properly documented case of a spontaneous curing of an amputee by praying would be compelling. (It would have to be in a controlled situation, since camera tricks, etc. can be used to effectively create the appearance of a missing limb. Stage tricks =/= miracle.)

Or what's that thing God is most famous for? Creating life or something? If (say) Mars were observed to spontaneously develop a fully developed and complex ecosystem within a week, then I would consider that to be sufficient proof.

I guess there would be other stuff, but I'm too lazy to think about what it could be right now.

Voices in my head, on the other hand... I would consider that to be evidence that I was schizophrenic. As an interesting note, there are some mental illnesses that are culturally specific. There's one mental illness that only exists in Japan, in which the sufferer believes that they are a fox. Similarly, hearing God's voice or hearing the voice of saints only occurs in Western cultures or amongst those who have had a strong exposure to Christianity. If (for example) tribespeople from PNG or somewhere who had never been exposed to Christianity in their lives began having Christianity-related psychoses, that would be another form of evidence for Christianity.

Yes, I notice that with many nonbelievers - that they are, as you state in your case, too lazy to think about a reason to believe.... That is really sad. God is not a grand magician who is going to pull out a bag of tricks and perform them for you... or anyone for that matter. Yes, HE IS most "famous" for creating life - yours, mine, everyone ... I always ask this of non-believers.... if you do not believe - why are you frequenting this site? It would seem you seek something... what could that be? Just wondering. God Bless!!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Lusankya,

Consider:

Matthew 12:38-40 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

also:

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection have already occurred and attested to by thousands living at that time, and billions, perhaps trillions since that time as He has worked in their lives to change them and to give them life.

Consider this also:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Even a mustard seed of faith will put you on the road to salvation through Christ, but you will have to come to a time in your life where you absolutely reject Him and of course reap the rewards, or accept Him as Lord and Savior and reap eternal life. There is a saying: There are no aetheists in foxholes.

You WILL come to that point one day and then you will either rejoice or you will have the deepest regret of your life.

I hope it is the prior.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Lusankya,

You do realise that I can't just "choose" to believe, right? I mean, I could choose to go to church and pray, or whatever, but I can't choose to believe in YHWH any more than I can choose to believe that Prince Philip is a god. I would like very much to believe that when you die you go to a happy place full of flowers and bunnies and delicious cheeses, but unless some kind of proof is offered to me, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for me to believe.

Consider:

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

If you can't choose, I don't know how you get up every day. You have before you life and death - CHOOSE LIFE!

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[MorningGlory]

Look, there's a reason that I didn't put "even more bible quotes" as one of the things that would make me believe. What you posted has exactly the same effect on me as Qu'ran quotes or ancient Greek myths: that is to say, I don't think it's true. If I told you to choose to believe that Godzilla existed, could you choose that? I'm not asking you to worship Godzilla or anything. Just believe that he exists. Can you choose that?

As for how I get up every day... I have friends. I have hobbies. I have delicious cheese. I only have one life. Why would I want to waste it all moping around doing nothing? That's just dumb.

After reading the above....I've come to the conclusion that all the talking, preaching or attempting to convince someone like you of a Creator and a Messiah are useless endeavors. Your mind is closed and you are deluded into thinking you can deny Him without consequences. You can't, and I'm very sorry for you. I don't understand why some people can't believe (and I do believe that many just can't.) I will pray for you though. Miracles DO happen.

[Guest Herod]

I'd need a lot of proof from God himself to believe in his existence. Even then, I'd still deny him.

[Guest shiloh357]

I'd need a lot of proof from God himself to believe in his existence. Even then, I'd still deny him.

So in your case, even if it could be proven God existed, if God Himself came into your livingroom and "proved" He existed, you would still reject Him?

So for you it is ultimately not an issue of a lack of evidence, although at this point, that is handy crutch or a convenient excuse for you to use.

[Guest shiloh357]

Look, there's a reason that I didn't put "even more bible quotes" as one of the things that would make me believe. What you posted has exactly the same effect on me as Qu'ran quotes or ancient Greek myths: that is to say, I don't think it's true.

What makes you think the claims of the Bible are not true?