The Gospel or What???

[stevehut]

We are preaching a salvation with out repentance. Our gospel is soooo watered down compared to what Jesus preached.

Kinda reminds me of the words of Deitrich Bonhoeffer:

[Guest Isaiah64v8]

No doubt - the Gospel is WAY watered-down, especially in the non-denominational mega-churches (Willow Creek, Saddleback, etc.). They don't teach the basics of Christianity - just feel-good pop psychology and some Jesus and God thrown in here and there.

For example, here's what the Bible calls "elementary teachings":

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Heb 6:1-2)

These are the things that Christians should know about in detail - the Bible says so. But when is the last time you've heard a sermon about repentance from sin or eternal judgment? It's too unpopular I guess.

I think a red flag should go up when a Christian book remains on the New York times best sellers list for awhile (not including fiction, like Left Behind). The Purpose Driven Life has been there for 2 years. If it's so popular with the world, that should be a warning. What do light and darkness have in common? Isn't friendship with the world hatred towards God?

When the real Gospel is preached, you'll be persecuted. That's a promise in scripture. They killed Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles. Is a servant greater than his Teacher? Didn't Jesus say that if the world hated Him, that the world would hate us? That is, of course, if we are aligned with Him. In Rick Warren's book, there is no mention of repentance, and the scripture used is so paraphrased and so twisted to fit his points, that it can hardly be called scripture. No wonder the world loves it.

This is serious. We have so many people in church who have been led to think that they are saved, when in fact they are on the broad road. There is no talk of denying oneself, taking up the cross daily, and following Jesus (btw...this is the most common teaching of Jesus). If you look at so many people in church and look at their fruit, it's hard to distinguish the fig trees from the thorn bushes. I know, I know - only God can see their hearts, but weren't we told that we could know them by their fruits? Yes, we all sin, but are lives truly changed, as they can only be by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit?

We should not be complacent with such people, but we should speak the truth in love to them, but again, it's serious. At the present, there are going to be a lot of people in hell and they're all going to be saying the same thing - "Why didn't you tell us? Why didn't you try to show us the narrow way?"

Any thoughts? What do you think is the best way to counter the watered-down gospel?

[stevehut]

The Purpose Driven Life has been there for 2 years. If it's so popular with the world, that should be a warning. What do light and darkness have in common?

Not sure I understand your logic here. Do you know what the bestselling book of all time is?

A church can't grow big without going apostate?

A book can't sell well without spouting heresy?

I guess we'd be better off if churches shrank down to nothing, and no one wrote any Christian books?

[One Way]

I find it interesting too that I can't tell which denomination anybody belongs to. Sometimes you all sound like Baptists but I can't tell (and please don't tell me ). I would rather continue to think of you all as just Christians which really should be our only label.

Carlos

Awesome statement of the brotherhood! Amen!

[GoodSamaritan]

This phenomenon is true in nearly every Church i've seen. Orthodoxy (used in a generic sense, not in any denominational sense) has gone the way of the hula-hoop. In my Church, we've seen a general laxity and appeasement when rendering the Gospel. The last generation of priests and laity made it so. THe good news is that the youth (35 and under) is spurring a revival. The young clergy is reverting to orthodox faith and so is the laity. I guess the one good thing about times like these is that God tends to raise up great saints to get His Church back on track. I have my own opinions of when and where this erosion started. At any rate, to sugarcoat the death and resurrection of Jesus is to slap Him in the face through ungratefulness and lack of reverence.

The Purpose Driven Life has its' place but, as a devotional, it's really subpar at best, IMO. God Bless.

GS

[One Way]

Never once in the bible did Jesus or his disciples ask people to say a sinners prayer. I can see it now Jesus asking people to bow their heads and close thier eyes. "Now with noone looking around, if you want me to come live in you heart, I want you to slip up your hand really quick and put it back down as brother peter plays "come as you are".  Now if you really want me to come in your heart I want you to come down here were we will fill out a membership card and presto you will be eteranlly secure."

That is a bunch of Bull.  All this does is produce phony christians.  Jesus said if you want eteranl life you must repent and believe and take up your cross and follow me daily.

Amen

I'd have to disagree with that summation. You speak so dogmatically with statements such as, "All this does is produce phony christians."

Do you presume to know the hearts of men and all of the ways in which God is working?

Everyone Jesus called He called openly and publicly.

Christ saved me due to His working in my heart and my response to it. This was independent of any man, although He used Christian radio to accomplish it. We are His hand and His feet.

What is wrong with, after the message of the gospel has been proclaimed, giving people an opportunity to turn from self, receive Christ and make that decision public?

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Blessings...

[stevehut]

I would rather continue to think of you all as just Christians which really should be our only label.

I agree wholeheartedly, but...

We live in the real world, where there are over 33,000 denominations of so-called "Christianity" (according to Oxford Univ.). So when someone tells me they're a Methodist (just an example) then it gives me a clue as to what they believe in, and helps me to understand them.

So...the info can come in handy.

[stevehut]

Never once in the bible did Jesus or his disciples ask people to say a sinners prayer....

That is a bunch of Bull.

[stevehut]

This phenomenon is true in nearly every Church i've seen. Orthodoxy (used in a generic sense, not in any denominational sense) has gone the way of the hula-hoop.

Yup.

(Wait a minute, did I just agree with Good Sam? )

[Guest Isaiah64v8]

I never said that a church can't grow big w/o growing apostate. The early church grew, of course, but they didn't leave out the "uncomfortable" teachings. There are apostate smaller churches too.

>>I guess we'd be better off if churches shrank down to nothing, and no one wrote any Christian books? << Of course not. But if they only preach a watered-down message, we need to fill in with the truth. I used to go to one of the Willow Creek churches, but after years of reading my Bible and not hearing the Bible preached, I became concerned. What did Jesus say?

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness! (Matt 7:13-14, 21-23)

Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?"

And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:23-24)

And why would Paul say this? Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12)

And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1 Pet 4:18)

No, I'm not saying we're saved by works. By grace and faith only. But, the popular watered-down gospel makes no mention of any of these verses (including Luke 9:23) and many people who think they are saved are not. They live like they did before they were "saved", because nobody confronts them on their sins (Matthew 18). Fruit is evidence of a genuine faith (James 2, and Abraham with Isaac).

What could be worse than to go through your whole life, thinking that you're saved, but you end up in hell? Should we not teach the full gospel, starting with repentance from our sins? Jesus and John the Baptist both started their ministry with this message. Are we better than they are?