The Gospel or What???

[Guest Called]

Never once in the bible did Jesus or his disciples ask people to say a sinners prayer. I can see it now Jesus asking people to bow their heads and close thier eyes. "Now with noone looking around, if you want me to come live in you heart, I want you to slip up your hand really quick and put it back down as brother peter plays "come as you are". Now if you really want me to come in your heart I want you to come down here were we will fill out a membership card and presto you will be eteranlly secure."

That is a bunch of Bull. All this does is produce phony christians. Jesus said if you want eteranl life you must repent and believe and take up your cross and follow me daily.

I kind of agree with what you have said here, although I don't have a problem with the raise your hand and walk an aisle thing or the sinner's prayer. What I do have a problem with is that alot of times, in fact most of the time the new convert gets lost in the crowd and is not discipled or mentored at all, hence the revolving door syndrome in the church today. Then these new converts end up back in the world and produce no fruit and they think it is okay, because no one taught them any better.

Thankfully, I belong to a church where when someone walks the aisle, they are prayed with and then they are taken to a side room and someone prays with that person again, because we want to make sure this person was truly saved and not just experiencing guilt or emotions and then they are discipled from there for usually about 40 weeks.

Sorry to go off on a tangent about my church, but I looooove it so much.

[stevehut]

Isaiah,

OK, now I understand where yer coming from. I just don't think the examples in your previous post, really supported that point.

[stevehut]

What I do have a problem with is that alot of times, in fact most of the time the new convert gets lost in the crowd and is not discipled or mentored at all, hence the revolving door syndrome in the church today.

Yup.

And that's the inherent hazard of the altar call, even if it was scripturally sound. And that's why my church will never do one.

[Guest Isaiah64v8]

Thanks steve. I liked the comments in your previous posts. =)

[One Way]

Let's not forget that Jesus, Himself, acknowledged that not all who professed Him would be saved. In the parable of the sower only 1 of the 4 soils produced a crop. An altar call is just a means of someone publicly professing Christ. Then, follow up is necessary. Pesonal discipleship is crucial for growth. Only time will tell if they have committed themselves to Christ in their heart. This will be manifested by their perseverance in the faith and the evidence of a changed life through the process of sanctification.

Let's just be careful not to say that such and such method is invalid, unless that method clearly wrong.

I have counseled many a person "who has come forward" at an altar call. And, like Jesus stated in the parable of the sower, a small percentage of them really understood what they were doing. But, there were those who had been touched by God. There were those that wanted to know more and to go deeper.

Personal evangelism, I think, is the best way to reach someone. Personal witness and testimony, fervent prayer, and taking the step to invite them to receive Christ. Many times, the harvest is ready for reaping, but we fail to pull out the sickle.

Making the confession publicly before men adds an element of officialdom to it. Just as does baptism. Do we also condemn corporate baptism? Meaning, when a church schedules a baptism at a lake or beach where all who have turned to Christ, but have not yet been baptized, can come and get baptized and thus proclaim to the world their conversion? Or must we take them individually to be baptized? Again... rules, rules, rules.

Here are the 3 rules that a church ought to follow:

1) Teach the word of God expositionally... Genesis to Revelation. Verse by verse.

2) Spirit led and inspired worship of Him. Allowing Him to move in the service.

3) There are no other rules.

This will keep us from the spirit of legalism.

Blessings...

[stevehut]

One Way,

I think I'd agree with most of what you've said here. Legalism kills, and people don't get saved my a pile of man-made legislation. But in general, I don't think the solution to too many rules, is to have none.

After all, the Bible is full of them.

[One Way]

Never once in the bible did Jesus or his disciples ask people to say a sinners prayer....

That is a bunch of Bull.

[stevehut]

I didn't mention "instant conversion." Although, we seem to see Jesus accomplish instant conversion in the lady at the well (John 4).

Well, isn't that what an altar call is for?

As for the woman at the well, I think Jesus had a little more discernment and authority than you and I will ever have.

[stevehut]

Everything else is, as they say, just details.

I'll remember to say that to St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. Let's see how far that gets me.

[One Way]

I didn't mention "instant conversion."  Although, we seem to see Jesus accomplish instant conversion in the lady at the well (John 4).

Well, isn't that what an altar call is for?

No, IMO, an altar call is where we look to reap where others have sown. Usually, Christians will bring people that they have been witnessing to personally to an evangelism service. But, before this there has been the planting of the seed of the gospel. Then the watering of it. And, ultimately there is the reaping.

An altar call is just one method of reaping what is ready for harvest. I was saved without an altar call. Although, later I ended up walking an aisle anyways as the opportunity was presented. Was I saved before it? Yes, and I knew this. But, it was through my altar call experience that I met the man that would end up discipling me for a year. Through the altar call I got personally discipled, involved in street-witnessing (also through this person), and just really got plugged in immediately.

My only point is not to limit God by saying "no this or that." God can and will work through many means.

The apostle Paul rejoiced when the word of God was preached even through envy and strife:

Phi 1:15 Some indeed even preach Christ because of envy and strife, and some also of good will.

Phi 1:16 Those, indeed, preach Christ out of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds.

Phi 1:17 But these others preach in love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel.

Phi 1:18 What then? Nevertheless, in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached. And I rejoice in this. Yet, also I will rejoice.

I just rejoice that the Lord is working, even if it in a method that I am not familiar with.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

PS. Regarding the rules thing I wasn't advocating "easy-believism" or anarchy by any means. Just that Jesus came to free us. Therefore, let's not put a yoke of burden upon people that God did not command. And I know you didn't say such, I'm just clarifying my own statement.

Blessings, Steve....