Mental Illness

[Axxman]

Your comparison with diabetes makes no sense at all. There's plenty of conditions for which there are no blood tests! Is there a blood test for Parkinson's disease?

Exactly my point...no comparison. If you will read back...I did NOT make the comparison. Somebody else did, and I was explaining the difference.

[Believer1997]

Hyperactive PT-Scans are those which are performed using medications prior to the scan to show activity. And I should have known you would know what a PET is... Did not mean to imply you were not aware of it. Leap of faith? Ok.... I know what many patients who use anti-depressants successfully report regarding their usage. The drug industry is a huge industry - I don't deny that - but... there are all kinds of chemical imbalances for which people take medications - everything from thyroid issues to diabetes... should those people stop taking the drugs they require to live normally? Why is it so hard to believe that serotonin inadequacy or another like dopamine, norepinephrine, etc. would affect the way people think and perceive?

I have literally been scanning everything I can for this term...can't find it...so I will accept your explanation (because I trust you.. )

As you know, PET scans are not widely accepted and have been largely disproven because a baseline cannot be established. They have attempted to show everything from size, to activity in certain area's and everyone is different.

Diabetes is a biochemical imbalance. However, there is a test to determine that. The test can reveal that the imbalance is a high blood sugar balance level. Treatment in severe cases is insulin injections, which restores sugar balance. The symptoms clear and a retest shows the blood sugar is normal. There is nothing like a sodium imbalance or blood sugar imbalance for depression or any other psychiatric syndrome.

Jonathan Leo, associate professor of anatomy at Western University of Health Sciences says,

[martin frobisher]

How is a theatre sister involved in the results phase of any surgery?

Well when you understand how DBS are placed, then you would know! DBS are often placed with the patient awake (although the main surgeon my wife works with is now so good she can do it with the patient asleep).

DBS has one fundamental difference from frontal lobotomy and frontal leukotomy. I'm sure you appreciate what it is.

You'll be aware that patients in states of the USA where psychosurgery was banned took legal action?

Edited June 8, 2009 by martin frobisher

[Axxman]

How is a theatre sister involved in the results phase of any surgery?

Well when you understand how DBS are placed, then you would know! DBS are often placed with the patient awake (although the main surgeon my wife works with is now so good she can do it with the patient asleep).

DBS has one fundamental difference from frontal lobotomy and frontal leukotomy. I'm sure you appreciate what it is.

You'll be aware that patients in states of the USA where psychosurgery was banned took legal action?

Sorry Bro...but I'm not sure how that answers the question. A theatre sister may be in the room during surgery...but she isn't in the room afterwards during the follow-ups...right? She doesn't get to see any of the long list of side effects that occur later. I'm honestly asking based on my idea of what a theatre sister does....I know what its like to have people make assumptions about your job or your qualifications.

Look...i've never made the case that drugs, or DBS, STN, TMS...or anything else for that matter...don't work. Clearly, many of the psychiatric options 'change' the behavior of a person. I can imagine that sticking electric wires into your brain may have an effect. The problem is...they are treating something (mental illness) that they cannot even prove medically exists. The electric wires in the brain works sometimes...but they don't know why. Should we be drugging people...or drilling holes in their head...without knowing? For me it is an ethical issue. You "think" it 'might be' a dopamine issue, or a serotonin issue, or a brain size issue...etc. But I personally have a hard time in trusting a multi-billion dollar industry that is literally drugging millions of people based on the results of a personality profile.

I don't blame sick people for desperately seeking help...that is a natural reaction. I do however blame the industry that prey's on them and uses a history of flawed scientific technique. When psychiatrists prescribe drugs to a patient they have NO IDEA if it will work positively or negatively on the patient...it is trial and error. It is the EXACT same scenario when doing DBS or any other technique. Psychiatry and neuroscience have been experimenting on patients for hundreds of years...and it still goes on today.

[martin frobisher]

Well I think seeing tremor stop just like that indicates a very favourable response! Given the state the patients are in, that's pretty good! And they have further testing in the recovery suite.

[Axxman]

PET scans are widely accepted Axx, for diagnosing a multitude of issues from brain abnormalities to heart disease - they have also been used to show areas of damaged brain function in stroke patients and others with severe mental illness. Try your search maybe using "Contrast PET" or HAP Pet... I can't remember now (I probably need one...) but at one time in coding we used Hyperactive PET... There are an amazing number of people who battle different types of depression who use anti-depressants with a lot of positive and good results. Jonathan Leo is a hack, imo... We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Prayer is powerful - but there are a lot of good people walking around and living functional lives because of medications. Blessings.

You caught me.. I messed up. PET scans are widely accepted for a wide variety of issues. What I should have stated (clarified?) is that the use of PET scans are not widely accepted as evidence of mental illness. Which is why they are not widely used in the diagnosis of mental illness.

There is NO DOUBT that using drugs can, and do, alter the life of a person. There are a great number of people who are taking drugs who think they cannot function properly without them. There are also a great many people that believe that the doctor who gave them drugs has a scientific and medical reason for doing so. The fact is...they don't. There is no medical etiology for depression...none. How is it ethical to give a person a drug just to see if it will make them act, or feel different/better? And if that drug doesn't work, they have a whole list of drugs to give you...more often than not, one of those drugs is gonna suit you just fine. There is clearly a dilemma...

Why is Jonathan Leo a hack?

[Believer1997]

PET scans are widely accepted Axx, for diagnosing a multitude of issues from brain abnormalities to heart disease - they have also been used to show areas of damaged brain function in stroke patients and others with severe mental illness. Try your search maybe using "Contrast PET" or HAP Pet... I can't remember now (I probably need one...) but at one time in coding we used Hyperactive PET... There are an amazing number of people who battle different types of depression who use anti-depressants with a lot of positive and good results. Jonathan Leo is a hack, imo... We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Prayer is powerful - but there are a lot of good people walking around and living functional lives because of medications. Blessings.

You caught me.. I messed up. PET scans are widely accepted for a wide variety of issues. What I should have stated (clarified?) is that the use of PET scans are not widely accepted as evidence of mental illness. Which is why they are not widely used in the diagnosis of mental illness.

There is NO DOUBT that using drugs can, and do, alter the life of a person. There are a great number of people who are taking drugs who think they cannot function properly without them. There are also a great many people that believe that the doctor who gave them drugs has a scientific and medical reason for doing so. The fact is...they don't. There is no medical etiology for depression...none. How is it ethical to give a person a drug just to see if it will make them act, or feel different/better? And if that drug doesn't work, they have a whole list of drugs to give you...more often than not, one of those drugs is gonna suit you just fine. There is clearly a dilemma...

Why is Jonathan Leo a hack?

He is an outspoken opponent of drug therapy. He used to be an associate professor of neuro-anatomy at some little school in Tennessee (which is not a bad thing), but because he apparently hasn't been able to land a grant from a drug company for himself, he's turned into a maverick against using anti-depressants. I have to wonder if he hasn't created a lot of havoc in the psychiatric community for personal reasons... Again, I will agree to disagree... I just know of too many people who are a testimony to the good that medication can do for mental illness. Blessings!

[martin frobisher]

From what I know being an associate professor in a minor university is no guarantee of academic credibility....

[Axxman]

Well I think seeing tremor stop just like that indicates a very favourable response! Given the state the patients are in, that's pretty good! And they have further testing in the recovery suite.

LoL...I would say, that must be an exciting event to witness firsthand!

There is no doubt that by interacting with certain parts of the brain we can elicit a physical response...that does NOTHING to say the treatment is good, let alone the lasting effects. A bullet into the frontal lobes would stop the tremors as well...that doesn't prove that bullets are the way to go. So we've found a "magic bullet" that when we tickle the brain with electric shock gives us a favourable outcome in that area. There were doctors who said the same thing about scraping the frontal lobes out too. "Look how calm they are."

The fact is..all we've done with DBS is change the physical behavior of a patient by physically altering the way the brain works. DBS does nothing for non-motor symptoms of the disease, such as depression, anxiety, balance problems, cognitive decline and memory loss. Oh wait...unless you don't have Parkinson's disease...then somehow putting wires in your brain actually helps with depression.

We haven't even touched on the list of side-effects that DBS has. "We can help your depression...but you'll have to deal with hallucinations, slurred speech, cognitive issues, ...you know, things that might depress normal people. You, on the other hand, have electric wires in your brain so you'll deal with all these side-effects quite well." Oh, the joys of pseudo-science...lol.

[Axxman]

From what I know being an associate professor in a minor university is no guarantee of academic credibility....

LOL...are there any guarantees of academic credibility?

Jonathan Leo has his critics (don't we all)...but he's done a few things.