Who Will Be Left?

[Guest idied2]

Luke 21:35-36

35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is this possibly connected to the Parable of the Ten Virgins?

These are the only ones left after CHRIST returnes. And separates the sheep from the goats. matt 25

Re 7:9

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

The rapture at his comming is for those who are equall to the angels in heaven.

Lu 20:36

nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Who number 144 thousand.

Revelation 7:

3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

Everyone else is killed before and just after CHRIST'S return.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug:

[JesusisGod2]

Hello Idied2,

I like your handle.

These are the only ones left after CHRIST returnes. And separates the sheep from the goats. matt 25

Re 7:9

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Actually these are those who are saved as you see by their being clothed in white. These are the saints, the children of God.

The rapture at his comming is for those who are equall to the angels in heaven.

Lu 20:36

nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

The rapture is for all who have been washed in the blood, again refering to the saints, the children of God who are alive or better yet living on the earth when the rapture occurs.

Who number 144 thousand.

Revelation 7:

3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

These are refering to Jews and only Jews, 12,000 from each tribe who will evangalize the earth like it has never been before. Many will come to Christ at this time.

Everyone else is killed before and just after CHRIST'S return.

I dont know where you get this, but everyone else will go through the millinial reign of Christ and will know true peace during this time. Then comes the judgement of the great white throne.

Please dont think I am trying to pick your post apart, but I happen to see these verses quite differently and then again perhaps I am not seeing them right.

In Jesus

kevin

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

Have you considered WHO these "saints" are:

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

How high can you count? According to what I see, the number of saints who go through the tribulation - NO MAN CAN COUNT!

Please explain.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Ro 11:19

You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."

Ro 11:23

And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Ro 11:24

For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Jer. 13:11 For as the sash clings to the waist of a man, so I have caused the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to cling to Me,' says the Lord, 'that they may become My people, for renown, for praise, and for glory; but they would not hear.'

Ezek. 37:11 Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Eze 39:25 - Show Context

"Therefore thus says the Lord God: 'Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name--

In His Love,

Suzanne

[JesusisGod2]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

Have you considered WHO these "saints" are:

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

How high can you count? According to what I see, the number of saints who go through the tribulation - NO MAN CAN COUNT!

Please explain.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hi Dad,

I believe that we are in agreement Dad, I also believe in post trib , pre-wrath.

The point I was trying to make is that these are saints of God and not the ones who are left after or when Christ returns. After all we who go through the tribulation will be raptured and then comes the marriage supper and then we return with Him. At least this is my understanding, but I could be wrong and am open to scripture that says otherwise.

So I believe that we are in agreement.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

The point I was trying to make is that these are saints of God and not the ones who are left after or when Christ returns. After all we who go through the tribulation will be raptured and then comes the marriage supper and then we return with Him. At least this is my understanding, but I could be wrong and am open to scripture that says otherwise.

I am glad to know that you are post-trib pre-wrath.

I see Ch. 11 as being a picture of what the saints will go through the last 3 1/2 years before the "coming of the Lord". The "two witnesses" are actually "two groups" of people, instead of just 2 people. No where does it say "two men" in referencing them. These two witnesses are the Jews and Gentiles united in Christ as per Eph. 1-3. See in particular vs. 2:22.

This also correlates well with:

1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Please note that it does not say that those "who are alive and remain" shall go up to meet the Lord at the same moment as the "first resurrection". This tells me that MOST Christians will die during those 3 1/2 years, but a very small "remnant" will remain for a short time after until the 7th Trumpet is blown. We see a picture of this "remnant" here:

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

A big deal has been made of the rapture, leading people to believe that they will "escape" any part of the tribulation period. Unfortunately the very verses they use to refer to the "rapture" (being caught up) tells us that it occurs AFTER the "first resurrection".

Throughout the OT and NT, we see that it was the "resurrection" that all the saints of God looked forward to and NOT the "rapture". The "catching up" of "those who are alive and remain (the remnant) are only mentioned once in the scripture, hardly enough to support a doctrine, and still they get it wrong. The pretribs have to believe in a "secret" rapture, in order for any of their doctrine to work. It is so secret that even God doesn't know about it.

So back to the two witnesses. We know that in those last days "Elijah will come" and he will "restore all things" - the "habitation" as mentioned in Eph 2:22. Otherwise referred to as the "temple of God" which WE ARE. Now a careful study of Elijah's coming, reveals that it is not Elijah himself, but it is the "spirit of Elijah" that will be upon His people in those days. Elijah was known as "the prophet of fire", so look at what the two witnessed do:

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

These two witnesses also meet the criteria of:

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The "mystery" of Babylon is that it refers to ALL the Kingdoms of THIS World, as opposed to "the Kingdom of God". It is a system of belief, a religion if you will, which the False Prophet leads the unsuspecting "organized church" to become a part of, AND from which Jesus "calls out His people" that they may not partake of their sins nor the wrath which is to come.

I see the 7 churches in ch. 1-3 as the last of the organized churches before succumbing to the Beast. The predominant "spirit" in those days will be that of Laodicia which God says "He will spew them out of His mouth" - this is the "great apostacy". It is HERE that the organized churches submit to Babylon, and the Christians (saints) are called out. THEN begins ch. 4 and the start of the "tribulation period".

Any questions?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[jmwhalen]

Failure to "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15).

Forget about looking for the rapture in Matthew, Mark, Luke,John, Revelation, the OT. Luke 21 has nothing to do with the rapture.("Son of Man" is a term that Scripture only uses in reference to Israel and the judgement of nations).

The rapture is part of the mystery program(1 Cor. 15:51), not the prophetic program-the mystery program was "...kept secret since the world began..."(Romans 16:25), "...in other ages was not made known unto the sons of me....", "...from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God....(Eph. 3:5,9-NOT HID IN SCRIPTURE), "...hath been hid from ages and generations...."(Col. 1:26).

Again, the prophetic program, which deals with Israel and the unbelieving nations, was SPOKEN about since the world began(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24)-in contrast, the Mystery Program, which deals with the Body of Christ, was kept SECRET, HIDDEN since the world began(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26).

The confusion is a result of not distinguishing the rapture from the 2nd coming-they are different. Those who say they are not are denying Romans 16:25, Eph. 3:5,9, Col. 1:26-something cannot be both spoken since the world began and hidden, kept secret since the world began at the same time. Impossible.

In Christ,

John Whalen

[Catsmeow]

The "mystery" of Babylon is that it refers to ALL the Kingdoms of THIS World, as opposed to "the Kingdom of God". It is a system of belief, a religion if you will, which the False Prophet leads the unsuspecting "organized church" to become a part of, AND from which Jesus "calls out His people" that they may not partake of their sins nor the wrath which is to come.

I see the 7 churches in ch. 1-3 as the last of the organized churches before succumbing to the Beast. The predominant "spirit" in those days will be that of Laodicia which God says "He will spew them out of His mouth" - this is the "great apostacy". It is HERE that the organized churches submit to Babylon, and the Christians (saints) are called out. THEN begins ch. 4 and the start of the "tribulation period".

DE: Excellent post! Makes perfect sense.

It is my opinion (and nothing more) when I say I firmly believe we are the Church of Laodicea. BTW, I dropped my membership from their roles.

I refuse to be politically correct and accept doctrines of demons, approval of immoral lifestyles of ANY sort and any behavior which dishonors my Lord.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine  yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?

Timothy 3: 1 - 17 

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving,  irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness,  although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

[His son]

Talk about private interpretation, these posts are filled to the brim with nothing else. Men who put their own words above the words of Jesus Christ in my humble opinion, are being very foolish. The Gospels were written by those who walked and talked with Jesus, and as for myself I am going to base the end time events on what they wrote. When It was written by The Holy Spirit using Mathew for instance to write that the greatest tribulation ever would end with the angels gathering the unrighteous, and casting them into the pit, and the elect into God's presence that is definite, and all the words of men are never going to change that fact.

[Catsmeow]

His Son: I believe you are referring to Dad Ernie's post but I'm not sure since you weren't specific.

I think where some confusion comes from stems from two separate events: one is a period of trials and "tribulation" *(characterized by wars, famines, earthquakes and other perilous events); later this is followed by "The Great Tribulation" aka "The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" or the "Day of Judgement" or simply "The Day of the Lord".

God's wrath is His judgement (the Day of the Lord) which comes like a thief in the night. Paul says that we do not sleep in the day as drunkards do but rather we live in the light. We do not live in darkness so that the "day" will not overtake us. We (the believers) are not appointed unto wrath. *(Thessalonians).

Jesus said in Matthew 24 to "Let not your heart be troubled; for these things must come but the end is not yet."

So, there appears to be a period of time before the Day of the Lord which is brought about by Providence and prophesy but it's distinct from the Great Tribution. It's a period of difficulties including famine and earthquakes of diverse sorts.