Who Will Be Left?

[stevehut]

I am mightily amused by the great level of interest in here about the end-times scenarios. I will give my standard answer, as always:

I don't know how the end will come. I just want to live a righteous life and be saved when it happens.

As for the when this will happen, and exactly how the events will unfold? I say let God be God, and let him deal with it.

[Catsmeow]

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come.

3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

Stevehut: Apparently Paul would not share your sentiments. He felt it necessary to reassure the brethren of his day that the Day of the Lord would not come till certain events were established: (1) the great apostacy and (2) the Man of Lawlessness is revealed.

So, apparently Paul considered it a worthy concern.

[Old Timer]

For those that believe in a mid-trib rapture I have one question.

How can Christ come unawares, when we are not expecting Him, as a thief in the night, if the catastrophic events starting at the beginning of Revelation 6 through 11:14 (up to the sounding of the 7th trumpet) are underway?

[Catsmeow]

If you read the entire chapter in Thessalonians, you'll find we are NOT unawares at all.

The Day of the Lord will come as a thief for those who live in darkness; NOT those who walk in the light.

[Catsmeow]

Old Timer:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

1 Now as to the times  and the epochs, brethren, you have  no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will  come just  like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, "Peace  and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor  pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,  that the day would overtake you like  a thief; 5 for you are all sons  of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 

[Old Timer]

Well, sorry, if that is the only reference that supports the mid-trib it is a very week argument.

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

We know the day is coming and so will not (or should not) be overtaken by it. This does not say we will know the day is coming because of all the tribulation and wrath that has preceded it. In fact, just the opposite. 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

[Catsmeow]

There's no argument - only scripture. We go by that. I don't know much about "mid trib" stuff.

I refer only to "pre-wrath" because we are NOT appointed unto wrath. That makes it pretty plain to me.

The "tribulation" argument (as you call it) gets confusing because there are is a tribulation and a Great Tribulation. There is a time of testing and also a time of God's wrath upon mankind.

The Great Tribulation which is aka the "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" and is generally considered to be an expression of God's judgement upon mankind.

Those who live carnally will not be prepared; those who walk in truth will be ready.

Jesus gave an analogy of 10 virgins waiting for the Bridegroom, who shows in the middle of the night. Half of the virgins are prepared for His arrival, with their lamps filled with oil the other half are not. Each person must ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate their understanding of holy scripture.

Some believe the events of Noah are a type of "prewrath" scenario. Noah wasn't raptured but he was spared destruction which came upon the world.

In like manner, the Groom comes for His Bride at a time when "no one knows".

However, those who lively godly will be "ready" and prepared because we can read the signs of the times. We are not appointed unto wrath. Nor will we be caught unawares.

*You have to seek the Lord in prayer and ask Him to reveal to you what His word means. Each of us do. I am led to believe we will experience tribulation but not the "Great Tribulation" characterized by the wrath of God.

[stevehut]

Stevehut: Apparently Paul would not share your sentiments.

Of course it's important.

If you had a direct vision from Jesus today, that the end would be coming tomorrow, what would you do diferently that you're not supposed to be doing already? I have asked this question many times in the WB's, and no one has answered.

I simply believe that a lot of people (and churches) spend far too much time on scholarly arguments about the endtimes.

Didn't Hal Lindsey teach us that the Soviet Union would be an agent of the endtimes? Last time I checked, the USSR was dead, and the rest of us are still here.

In many places, the consequence of this misguided emphasis is that they don't spend nearly enough time teaching their people how to live righteous lives in service to God.

I simply want to be on the right side of the line when it happens.

[stevehut]

One more thought:

The Pharisees studied the Scriptures constantly, and debated endlessly in the temple. They knew all about the hundreds of prophecies about the Messiah, from the body of writings that we now call the Old Testament.

But they didn't recognize the Messiah when he stood before them.

So much for all that book learnin'.

[traveller]

Stevehut: Apparently Paul would not share your sentiments.

Of course it's important.

If you had a direct vision from Jesus today, that the end would be coming tomorrow, what would you do diferently that you're not supposed to be doing already? I have asked this question many times in the WB's, and no one has answered.

I simply believe that a lot of people (and churches) spend far too much time on scholarly arguments about the endtimes.

Didn't Hal Lindsey teach us that the Soviet Union would be an agent of the endtimes? Last time I checked, the USSR was dead, and the rest of us are still here.

In many places, the consequence of this misguided emphasis is that they don't spend nearly enough time teaching their people how to live righteous lives in service to God.

I simply want to be on the right side of the line when it happens.

Stevehut - I agree with you. Jesus said

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

We are supposed to be living like He is coming quickly, just like He said. If we were to know that He were to be here tomorrow there should be nothing different about how we are conducting our lives. He said He's coming quickly, we know He's coming quickly, we should therefore be living like He's coming quickly.

As far as the endtimes, Jesus said we would know the seasons. I think we are all in agreement that we know our clock is ticking. It has been since Jesus said, "Surely, I come quickly."