Church of Christ: Cult,sect or true

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Nov 26 2009, 10:25 AM)

QUOTE

Of course you would find it ironic, but then again, I do not base my faith on scripture from the dictionary either

I didn't say you based on your faith on it, but I find it helpful to note that you cannot provide a scriptural example of biblical doctrine defined as human teaching.

2 Peter 2:1

[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

I said you cannot find a place where BIBLICAL doctrine is defined as human teaching. 2Peter 2:1 is not defining biblical doctrine as the teachings and ideas of man.

QUOTE

QUOTE

Tell me then Bro, why is there so many different doctrines?

Different doctrines? They're aren't. What you have are different applications of doctrines. There is only one Bible and one set of doctrines contained in it.

Wow, I never thought you would agree with the doctrine of the Mormons or the Jehovah Witnesses or the Roman Catholic Churches. You do surprise me, Bro.

I thought the conversation was in the context of mainline denominations, as that is the context I am operating in and I think you know that. Nice attempt at a bait and switch, though. Different denominations apply the teachings of Scripture differently.

The only reason why you take offense with me is that I see "doctrine" differently then you do.

I am not offended at all. I am simply operating from the only correct definition of biblical doctrine that exists.

If I were to just use your definition, then I would agree. If use what the definition really means, then I can not.

You are avoiding the biblical definition. You are appealing to a more broad use of the term as it used in the secular world. For example, even the military as "doctrine" in terms of the rules of combat, military justice and so forth.

From a biblical standpoint, the teachings or "doctrines" of the apostles have their origin and root in Scripture and not the teachings of man.

I choose to use the fullness of the word.

Well if that were true, you would appeal to the Bible as your source to define what doctrine is.

Doctrine is what people hold to that describes their belief system.

Where does the Bible say that in terms of biblical teaching?

One doctrine I know you do not believe in is that one must be baptized in order to have salvation.

That is not a doctrine, as it does not occur in Scripture.

That is the doctrine of some churches, derived from their understanding of scripture, yet false, derived from man.

That may be a human teaching in the secular sense, and I am not saying that some churches don't have purely human teachings, but my point is that true "Doctrine" from a biblical standpoint is NEVER the ideas of man, but the teachings of Scripture meant to provide a foundation for practical Christian living.

[OneLight]

Without copying all that has been said, I have to tell you that when I was discussing this with Smalcad, that is the definition I was referring to. When you came in, you changed this around to your understanding, which you do quite often.

Doctrine is what it is. There is biblical doctrine and there is mans doctrine (what they believe scripture is saying as an example). As I stated before, you stand on what you see as the definition, having tunnel vision, not being able to see what others are saying.

Let me put it to you this way so you can understand my simple ways. Scripture is God inspired writings. The doctrine that denominations get from scripture are not. If they just quote scripture alone and give no other definition to what it means, then it is scripture they stand on. Otherwise, they not only stand on scripture, but their understanding.

I don't need to bait and switch with you at all. You box yourself into a corner very nicely with your "I'm right and you're wrong, there is only one right way and it is mine" attitude that there is no need for trickery.

[Smalcald]

Boy all that I was getting at was the importance of having a statement of faith for all to read and hopefully some simple straightforward doctrinal statements so you can show people what you believe as a group and what you will continue to believe as a group of Christians. I further feel that Christian education is critical how do you teach something that you don't even agree on as a group?

This does not mean it is right! But it does mean we can at least know what is going on and know when it is wrong.

[OneLight]

Boy all that I was getting at was the importance of having a statement of faith for all to read and hopefully some simple straightforward doctrinal statements so you can show people what you believe as a group and what you will continue to believe as a group of Christians. I further feel that Christian education is critical how do you teach something that you don't even agree on as a group?

This does not mean it is right! But it does mean we can at least know what is going on and know when it is wrong.

I understand this. I guess it would of been wiser to define the word doctrine before the discussion started, but we didn't. I see doctrine more in the way of defining what a group of people believe, as in baptismal statements ... sprinkle, submersion, included in salvation, not included in salvation, clarifying their stance.

[Sir Gareth]

All i know of the CoC is that they say you must be baptized to be saved and this is unbiblical, therefore I could not at all say i support the church since they do not follow the bible.

[OneLight]

All i know of the CoC is that they say you must be baptized to be saved and this is unbiblical, therefore I could not at all say i support the church since they do not follow the bible.

Can you show us any church that follows scripture 100% correctly?

[Sir Gareth]

All i know of the CoC is that they say you must be baptized to be saved and this is unbiblical, therefore I could not at all say i support the church since they do not follow the bible.

Can you show us any church that follows scripture 100% correctly?

That would be hard to answer since some people interpert certain passages differently, so i could say that i know of churches that follow scripture 100% to their understanding.

I suppose i was a bit harsh though as you are right and many churches do not follow 100% by the book, but i do have a definite problem with someone confusing the doctrine of salvation.

[Smalcald]

Boy all that I was getting at was the importance of having a statement of faith for all to read and hopefully some simple straightforward doctrinal statements so you can show people what you believe as a group and what you will continue to believe as a group of Christians. I further feel that Christian education is critical how do you teach something that you don't even agree on as a group?

This does not mean it is right! But it does mean we can at least know what is going on and know when it is wrong.

I understand this. I guess it would of been wiser to define the word doctrine before the discussion started, but we didn't. I see doctrine more in the way of defining what a group of people believe, as in baptismal statements ... sprinkle, submersion, included in salvation, not included in salvation, clarifying their stance.

ahh yes.

I know the whole details thing. I think we agree, to me doctrine is simply a congregations statement of faith.

[Guest yod]

to me doctrine is simply a congregations statement of faith.

to me, it's for finding out where there is a disagreement on the scriptures...

not a reason for disfellowship necessarily but it helps to know where we're starting from

[OneLight]

All i know of the CoC is that they say you must be baptized to be saved and this is unbiblical, therefore I could not at all say i support the church since they do not follow the bible.

Can you show us any church that follows scripture 100% correctly?

That would be hard to answer since some people interpert certain passages differently, so i could say that i know of churches that follow scripture 100% to their understanding.

I suppose i was a bit harsh though as you are right and many churches do not follow 100% by the book, but i do have a definite problem with someone confusing the doctrine of salvation.

Me too. There are other specifics that I take seriously and some I do not, for scripture is not clear on these doctrine, like not allowing instruments in worship.