Church of Christ: Cult,sect or true

[OnetrueGod]

I happened across one of their people at a local gas station a day or so ago. This guy sounded like a total stoned cultist with a canned answer for everything. These people don't even allow music in their services because there are no examples of music in the New Testament. Is anyone here familiar with the meatier portions of their teachings?

I went to one of their churches a few years ago.

I was very uncomfortable. They preached they are the only church. They had no music, which is fine. I had a sense that something was walking around the chapel, watching me.

I sensed that something was walking around the place, moving through out the building. It was creepy.

We talked to the pastor and he was like, "we believe the bible" that was his response to us trying to understand the church, he did not really point to anything specific.

I would avoid the place.

Lord V... Interesting online name and quotes. My wife and I went and saw the "Half Blood Prince" last night ...great movie! Can't wait for the next one. Anyway....

Here is the low down on those in the COC. I've let my close friend who is in the COC, read throught these posts. I tried to get him to join this website, but he said the last religious forum website he tried to join and comment on turned into a "beat up the COC" forum and he finally got tired of people accusing the COC of being a brain-washed cult who believe they are the only ones going to heaven. I agree with him when he says that is an un-Christ like stereotype of his religion. Are there some in the COC that believe that? Yes...most do not. Are there some congregations that are self-righteous and legalistic in their teachings? Yes...most are not.

I will quote my COC brother here (He tells me to save my breath...because it is obvious that the person who started this post and asked the question already has his mind made up about all COC's and all the banter in the world won't change that). I disagree with him, I think most of us on this website are more open minded about such things than he gives us credit for and are not willing to sit back and let a stereotype close our minds....am I right here? Anyway his quote is this....

"The COC came out of a movement to tear down the walls of denominationalism and help us all unify. The only way to affectively do this, is to use only scripture as our guide, throwing out any man-made additions and ideas that are in opposition to the written word. There is a misconception, although there are some in the COC who do agree, that the COC think they are the one true church and the only ones going to heaven. This is because the "church of Christ" is meant to be a descriptor of the people not a name of a denomination. Some in the COC have apparently forgotten this and approach it to mean those churches that have COC over the door. The name COC menas "the church which belongs to Christ...bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus" not as the name of a religious stripe. If you understand how they "should" approach this...it includes anyone who belongs to the body. So... if you believe that your particular stripe of Christianlty belongs to the body of Christ...then you too are a member of the "church of Christ". In that sense can anyone not belonging to the "church of Christ" be saved?"

I can vouch for the honesty and integrity of my COC friend as a "God-seeking" Christian. Do we disagree on some matters - yes. But I disagree with many on this website, but I have also learned if I pay attention and keep an open mind, I might learn something. Maybe some of you who have had a bad experience with a COC person or congregation, or like me have been sold a stereotype in my younger years that they are some sort of "stoned cult" will learn...it just aint so! as for you Lord V...I'm not sure where you are going with the "something walking around the place...watching you" please explain yourself. because that seems a bit surreal and maybe just being said to further the stereotype of COC's being a "Weird Cult".

Sorry, I do love my COC brother. He has been as good a Christian friend as I have ever seen. He has not beat me up with his opinions, or behaved in any way as a cultist. I guess I got a little defensive. I asked myself why I'm defending the COC and I asked my friend why more of our COC people didn't defend themselves on this website...He says most people have already stereoyped the COC and immedialtely shut down any discussion about unity with them before they ever get a chance to find out what they really teach. I hope that's not the case.

[OneLight]

I happened across one of their people at a local gas station a day or so ago. This guy sounded like a total stoned cultist with a canned answer for everything. These people don't even allow music in their services because there are no examples of music in the New Testament. Is anyone here familiar with the meatier portions of their teachings?

I went to one of their churches a few years ago.

I was very uncomfortable. They preached they are the only church. They had no music, which is fine. I had a sense that something was walking around the chapel, watching me.

I sensed that something was walking around the place, moving through out the building. It was creepy.

We talked to the pastor and he was like, "we believe the bible" that was his response to us trying to understand the church, he did not really point to anything specific.

I would avoid the place.

Lord V... Interesting online name and quotes. My wife and I went and saw the "Half Blood Prince" last night ...great movie! Can't wait for the next one. Anyway....

Here is the low down on those in the COC. I've let my close friend who is in the COC, read throught these posts. I tried to get him to join this website, but he said the last religious forum website he tried to join and comment on turned into a "beat up the COC" forum and he finally got tired of people accusing the COC of being a brain-washed cult who believe they are the only ones going to heaven. I agree with him when he says that is an un-Christ like stereotype of his religion. Are there some in the COC that believe that? Yes...most do not. Are there some congregations that are self-righteous and legalistic in their teachings? Yes...most are not.

I will quote my COC brother here (He tells me to save my breath...because it is obvious that the person who started this post and asked the question already has his mind made up about all COC's and all the banter in the world won't change that). I disagree with him, I think most of us on this website are more open minded about such things than he gives us credit for and are not willing to sit back and let a stereotype close our minds....am I right here? Anyway his quote is this....

"The COC came out of a movement to tear down the walls of denominationalism and help us all unify. The only way to affectively do this, is to use only scripture as our guide, throwing out any man-made additions and ideas that are in opposition to the written word. There is a misconception, although there are some in the COC who do agree, that the COC think they are the one true church and the only ones going to heaven. This is because the "church of Christ" is meant to be a descriptor of the people not a name of a denomination. Some in the COC have apparently forgotten this and approach it to mean those churches that have COC over the door. The name COC menas "the church which belongs to Christ...bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus" not as the name of a religious stripe. If you understand how they "should" approach this...it includes anyone who belongs to the body. So... if you believe that your particular stripe of Christianlty belongs to the body of Christ...then you too are a member of the "church of Christ". In that sense can anyone not belonging to the "church of Christ" be saved?"

I can vouch for the honesty and integrity of my COC friend as a "God-seeking" Christian. Do we disagree on some matters - yes. But I disagree with many on this website, but I have also learned if I pay attention and keep an open mind, I might learn something. Maybe some of you who have had a bad experience with a COC person or congregation, or like me have been sold a stereotype in my younger years that they are some sort of "stoned cult" will learn...it just aint so! as for you Lord V...I'm not sure where you are going with the "something walking around the place...watching you" please explain yourself. because that seems a bit surreal and maybe just being said to further the stereotype of COC's being a "Weird Cult".

Sorry, I do love my COC brother. He has been as good a Christian friend as I have ever seen. He has not beat me up with his opinions, or behaved in any way as a cultist. I guess I got a little defensive. I asked myself why I'm defending the COC and I asked my friend why more of our COC people didn't defend themselves on this website...He says most people have already stereoyped the COC and immedialtely shut down any discussion about unity with them before they ever get a chance to find out what they really teach. I hope that's not the case.

Though it is nice that you and your brother are close, and that you have an open mind about the CoC, your post did not shine any more light on the subject then what the name CoC meant ... still would like to hear what your brother thinks since I have never entered a CoC church, nor tried to understand where they come from, theologically.

[hillsong_girl]

When I first got saved, I did attend a Church of Christ for a brief period and honestly their practices and beliefs negatively affected me. A little legalistic and un-biblical. I would not ever go back to one nor would I ever suggest it to anyone.

Hillsong Girl, How sad. It sounds like you had a very negative experience with the COC. My close friend, who is COC, has told me that some of the COC's are even negative toward all other COC's...very contentious, pious, legalistic, and self-righteous. I suppose not having a central organization or creed to "standardize" their belief system might breed that.

There are also legalistic "pushy" people from every other religious stripe...be honest...all of us can think of such people in our own groups that are opinionated and dead set in their ways and consider everyone else to be just plain wrong...period! I can imagine if some of these people are in positions of leadership in a congregation with no central leadership to soften them...Well, I can see where it could be a problem.

I have worshipped with the COC my friend attends (and he also worships at my church on accasion) and I have found him and the others at the COC to be sincere, loving, seekers of God. I have had more problems with a few legalists in my own religion than anybody at the COC. They have also treated me with respect. They do hold strongly to their own convictions as directed in Romans 14, but they also are kind and respectful of mine. I respect those who are confident in their beliefs. I don't believe they are a cult at all...although apparently some COC's are extremely self-righteous and judgemental (as are some in all religions!)

I wouldn't have a problem with anyone who wanted to attend there...at least the COC I am most familier with. Just my 2 cents.

I understand what you are saying. I didn't have any issues with the people in the congregation, just their beliefs and practices. Water baptism as necessary for salvation and saying it is only correct to sing for music (and not use instruments) are not in line with the Bible.

Well there are allot of Scholars that disagree with you on that (baptism). Stating your opinion as if it is a carved in stone fact, is the same thing your accusing the CoC of doing. So once again hypocrisy!

Wow...why the attack? Do you think being baptised in water is needed for salvation? Trusting in Jesus' blood alone, His sacrifice is how we are saved.

[OnetrueGod]

Onelight, I really am not qulaified to give a synopsis of COC ideology. I will try to get my COC friend (BTW, he is not by biological brother, but rather my spiritual brother as a fellow child of God) to post a comment about their beliefs. I wouldn't want someone from another denomination to state what mine believes either.

I do know, that he would tell you the point is there is no "standard" COC wide beliefs, as each congregation is autonomous. They believe to go only to scriptures for what they do and practice, however, COC's do not totally agree on what scriptures say or mean and there is a wide varience from one congregation to another. Some COC's (including my friend's) have no instruments in their building. But my sister (biological sister) who lives in Maryland showed me a COC in her town that has instruments in theirs. Some COC's simply choose not to have instruments but don't look down on others that do, while other COC's are nearly violent in their opposition to their use.

I am a fan of Max Lucado's writing...I consider them some of the best written about love for God and each other I have ever read. If you haven't read his work...read them. Perhaps you can see to the heart of what COC's are about. He is a COC Pastor.

Again, I'll attempt to have my COC friend post...but he will tell you he does not speak for all COC's and neither they for him.

[OnetrueGod]

Hillsong Girl, The "attack" from scarlet prayers seemed a bit harsh to me as well, However, The very complant most people have about the COC is they are so dogmatic about their beliefs that they cannot even attempt to see where another religious group is coming from in their beliefs. Seems that is what you may have been guilty of as well.

You stated very emphaticaly your belief (and I stand ready to defend your right to your belief) but it was a though "any idiot knows that baptism is not necessary" message were behind your statement.

Note the book of Acts:

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

On pentecost, Peter convinces the Jews present that they have killed the messiah...the Son of God and are lost. They ask the question in v.37.... Peter's answer is in v. 38.

Now I'm not here to start a debate on this passage. I know there is much more invloved and many more verses that later and better explain salvation. But Honestly hillsong Girl, Can you not understand why some religious groups put validity to the idea that baptism is at least related to salvation in some way? It's not that the COC, or any other group that teaches that baptism in involved in salvation (and there are many others), just pulled it out of thin air. There is some confusion and room for debate in the scriptures here.

My religious group practices baptism, however, we disagree with the COC in that we believe that salvation occurs at the time of belief, they contend at the time of baptism as the binding of the covenant (so to speak). But because scripture seems to show it to be involved in the conversions of many new Christians in the NT, there must be some importance to this.

My COC friend tells me, even the most legalistic COC groups don't believe that the water saves someone. They also believe it is not the "work" of being baptized that brings salvation, but simply that it is an outward sign of submission that puts them in contact with the blood (not literally blood = water) of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for our sins. The COC DOES believe that only Jesus saves, they would only disagree about the role of baptism in this process. I know, I have debated this with my COC friend many times, but I can see their point and where they come from.

Anyway, you may have stepped on a few toes there. Be careful and don't become dogmatic in debatable views. Maybe you learned more from some of the legalists in the COC than you think.

[OneLight]

Onelight, I really am not qulaified to give a synopsis of COC ideology. I will try to get my COC friend (BTW, he is not by biological brother, but rather my spiritual brother as a fellow child of God) to post a comment about their beliefs. I wouldn't want someone from another denomination to state what mine believes either.

I do not belong to any church, but attend those that draw me. Some are more inline with scripture while other lack His guidance by placing Him in a neatly designed box and telling Him not to come out. I fully agree with scripture and do not agree with some of mans doctrines, those that go beyond scripture. Yet, those that I do agree with are just a rewrite of scripture in their own words.

I do know, that he would tell you the point is there is no "standard" COC wide beliefs, as each congregation is autonomous. They believe to go only to scriptures for what they do and practice, however, COC's do not totally agree on what scriptures say or mean and there is a wide varience from one congregation to another. Some COC's (including my friend's) have no instruments in their building. But my sister (biological sister) who lives in Maryland showed me a COC in her town that has instruments in theirs. Some COC's simply choose not to have instruments but don't look down on others that do, while other COC's are nearly violent in their opposition to their use.

Sounds to me as if they have no accountability outside of their group. This can lead to heresy, not saying that they are heretic because, as I mentioned, I know very little about them.

I am a fan of Max Lucado's writing...I consider them some of the best written about love for God and each other I have ever read. If you haven't read his work...read them. Perhaps you can see to the heart of what COC's are about. He is a COC Pastor.

Again, I'll attempt to have my COC friend post...but he will tell you he does not speak for all COC's and neither they for him.

I have enough studies to do in scripture that I rarely use outside material to influence my thinking. This is not to say that others writings are not correct, I just chose to let His Spirit guide me as I study. I do use resources, like a Hebrew and Greek dictionary.

Thanks for asking him to reply to this thread. I would like to hear what draws him to this church.

[Scarletprayers]

OneLight said:

I have enough studies to do in scripture that I rarely use outside material to influence my thinking. This is not to say that others writings are not correct, I just chose to let His Spirit guide me as I study. I do use resources, like a Hebrew and Greek dictionary

And the above is why there are so many denoms to begin with, I have never met a group that didn't say they were led by the Spirit, after much study. Yet they preach something different than the group next door. As long as what somebody is preaching isn't against the final truth, THAT JESUS AND JESUS ONLY, is the TRUE path to salvation, who am I to tell someone else they are wrong. They are (hopefully) prayerfully and with trembling trying to seek their own salvation the same as I am. And regardless of what some here and else where may say, the Bible in allot of areas doesn't give a carved in stone answer for certain questions (hence the differing views by Christians) We can and should discuss and even debate (in love) to get people to study, to plant a seed, but the Bible tells us that only true growth and calling comes from God Himself, never us. Don't like the CoC, fine don't go there, maybe there are different places to worship because God allowed for us to find places where we feel at home, that fits our personality. Maybe if we would stop trying to drive wedges between other believers because of things that don't effect our salvation, we could actually accomplish something in "the world" instead, we are our own worst enemies! As this whole thread is a perfect example of!

[OnetrueGod]

OneLight said:

I have enough studies to do in scripture that I rarely use outside material to influence my thinking. This is not to say that others writings are not correct, I just chose to let His Spirit guide me as I study. I do use resources, like a Hebrew and Greek dictionary

And the above is why there are so many denoms to begin with, I have never met a group that didn't say they were led by the Spirit, after much study. Yet they preach something different than the group next door. As long as what somebody is preaching isn't against the final truth, THAT JESUS AND JESUS ONLY, is the TRUE path to salvation, who am I to tell someone else they are wrong. They are (hopefully) prayerfully and with trembling trying to seek their own salvation the same as I am. And regardless of what some here and else where may say, the Bible in allot of areas doesn't give a carved in stone answer for certain questions (hence the differing views by Christians) We can and should discuss and even debate (in love) to get people to study, to plant a seed, but the Bible tells us that only true growth and calling comes from God Himself, never us. Don't like the CoC, fine don't go there, maybe there are different places to worship because God allowed for us to find places where we feel at home, that fits our personality. Maybe if we would stop trying to drive wedges between other believers because of things that don't effect our salvation, we could actually accomplish something in "the world" instead, we are our own worst enemies! As this whole thread is a perfect example of!

Thanks Scarletprayers, Well said. The moment we stop searching and questioning and decide "the way I see it, is the only way it can be, and all others be damned" We will cease to grow and allow the Spirit to work in our lives, and only build more and more walls of division among His followers.

Onelight, Thank you for your loving attitude. It is refreshing to finally find a website that seems to try and sweep away preconceived ideas and stereotypes of the various denominations and are honestly seeking to find truth in God's word. I only joined a few days ago on the suggestion of a friend who has loved your site for several years. BTW I wasn't suggesting that you follow the teachings of Max Lucado, but rather read his work to get an idea of where the COC is coming from in their views. It might help you understand the group you don't know much about. Not to mention it's just plain inspirational. thanks.

[OneLight]

OneLight said:

I have enough studies to do in scripture that I rarely use outside material to influence my thinking. This is not to say that others writings are not correct, I just chose to let His Spirit guide me as I study. I do use resources, like a Hebrew and Greek dictionary

And the above is why there are so many denoms to begin with, I have never met a group that didn't say they were led by the Spirit, after much study. Yet they preach something different than the group next door. As long as what somebody is preaching isn't against the final truth, THAT JESUS AND JESUS ONLY, is the TRUE path to salvation, who am I to tell someone else they are wrong. They are (hopefully) prayerfully and with trembling trying to seek their own salvation the same as I am. And regardless of what some here and else where may say, the Bible in allot of areas doesn't give a carved in stone answer for certain questions (hence the differing views by Christians) We can and should discuss and even debate (in love) to get people to study, to plant a seed, but the Bible tells us that only true growth and calling comes from God Himself, never us. Don't like the CoC, fine don't go there, maybe there are different places to worship because God allowed for us to find places where we feel at home, that fits our personality. Maybe if we would stop trying to drive wedges between other believers because of things that don't effect our salvation, we could actually accomplish something in "the world" instead, we are our own worst enemies! As this whole thread is a perfect example of!

I believe you are reading into what I said. I never indicated that I do not hold myself accountable to others, as, lets say, the elders of a church or the pastors I sit under. You are assuming this because I did not infer it. What I did say, in an earlier post, is that I do not belong to a church, meaning, I have not placed my signature on any paper stating that I believe in any denominational doctrines. I see no harm in this at all.

Besides that, I agree with most of your post. When we divide, we do so through pride. "I am right and you are wrong and I will no longer worship with you because you believe this way or that way." When Paul preached, he spoke these words.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5 (New King James Version)

And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

[hillsong_girl]

Hillsong Girl, The "attack" from scarlet prayers seemed a bit harsh to me as well, However, The very complant most people have about the COC is they are so dogmatic about their beliefs that they cannot even attempt to see where another religious group is coming from in their beliefs. Seems that is what you may have been guilty of as well.

You stated very emphaticaly your belief (and I stand ready to defend your right to your belief) but it was a though "any idiot knows that baptism is not necessary" message were behind your statement.

Note the book of Acts:

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

On pentecost, Peter convinces the Jews present that they have killed the messiah...the Son of God and are lost. They ask the question in v.37.... Peter's answer is in v. 38.

Now I'm not here to start a debate on this passage. I know there is much more invloved and many more verses that later and better explain salvation. But Honestly hillsong Girl, Can you not understand why some religious groups put validity to the idea that baptism is at least related to salvation in some way? It's not that the COC, or any other group that teaches that baptism in involved in salvation (and there are many others), just pulled it out of thin air. There is some confusion and room for debate in the scriptures here.

My religious group practices baptism, however, we disagree with the COC in that we believe that salvation occurs at the time of belief, they contend at the time of baptism as the binding of the covenant (so to speak). But because scripture seems to show it to be involved in the conversions of many new Christians in the NT, there must be some importance to this.

My COC friend tells me, even the most legalistic COC groups don't believe that the water saves someone. They also believe it is not the "work" of being baptized that brings salvation, but simply that it is an outward sign of submission that puts them in contact with the blood (not literally blood = water) of Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for our sins. The COC DOES believe that only Jesus saves, they would only disagree about the role of baptism in this process. I know, I have debated this with my COC friend many times, but I can see their point and where they come from.

Anyway, you may have stepped on a few toes there. Be careful and don't become dogmatic in debatable views. Maybe you learned more from some of the legalists in the COC than you think.

I understand why people try to say water baptism is needed for salvation. I do understand where the idea comes from, and I do appreciate you writing on this. But I am very upset by any doctrine that suggests we can or must add to the work of the cross. If something besides the cross is required, then the whole premise of Christianity being about the blood of Jesus as the only way for us to be forgiven is destroyed, because we are saying a religious work is still required for us to have salvation. I did not mean to appear "dogmatic," but at the same time I strongly believe the truth of scripture is clear on this issue and the fact that any Christian still thinks we are required to do something beyond the cross is very scary to me. Yes, getting baptized is something Christians should do, but to suggest that being immersed in water somehow has power to make a difference in whether someone is saved or not...again, very scary to me.